FX Smooth Twist Barrel's at FX Factory being made and tested by Himself Freedric Axel

[21grains]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_HTQwrTG6s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_HTQwrTG6s
Freedric Axelsson is his Name could'nt change tital line

[ModelA]

Thanks Franky,
Will see how Rick does with his ST in his Dawson?

Paul

[shadowalker]

Watching the video for the novice is probably most comforting and exciting. I had to smile as I have been associated with superior benchrest barrel making for 40 plus years. When you attempt to straighten a bbl as shown with the indicator on the outside of the bbl it tells you nothing about how straight the inside is even if turned on centers. I have seen bbls straightened in this manner as to fit equally in the the stock bbl channel but that's all. Bbl makers and great smiths know only rototating the bbl and observing how straight the inside is determines how good the bbl most likley will be. I seriously doubt if FX barrels are anything we need to be concerned about at this time if the present method of straightning is used.

frank

[DanB]

I was thinking the same thing when I watched him straighten the outside.
Dan


Watching the video for the novice is probably most comforting and exciting. I had to smile as I have been associated with superior benchrest barrel making for 40 plus years. When you attempt to straighten a bbl as shown with the indicator on the outside of the bbl it tells you nothing about how straight the inside is even if turned on centers. I have seen bbls straightened in this manner as to fit equally in the the stock bbl channel but that's all. Bbl makers and great smiths know only rototating the bbl and observing how straight the inside is determines how good the bbl most likley will be. I seriously doubt if FX barrels are anything we need to be concerned about at this time if the present method of straightning is used.

frank

[21grains]

Dan & Frank; I thought I read Somewhere the Barrels are Tubes made in Germany,not deep drilling. Would that be OK for straighting outside or not?.....Franky

[blades]

Air rifle barrels made both ways, conventional deep drilling then button rifle or seamless tube - rifled. Have not heard about any cut rifled or hammer forged. Not sure how the polygon are made

[DanB]

Good one Franky. I don't know how the tubes are manufactured but it may be a process that insures a concentric hole. If that is the case then Frederik's method is valid.
BSA barrels are hammer forged. I believe the LW polygons are buttoned. I have a Krieger cut rifling barrel that was made with my specs for .22 cal air gun. Looks like the bases are covered concerning air guns.
Dan


Dan & Frank; I thought I read Somewhere the Barrels are Tubes made in Germany,not deep drilling. Would that be OK for straighting outside or not?.....Franky

[21grains]

Thank's Guy's for sharing Your knowledge.....Franky

[GordonDawson]

Thanks Franky,
Will see how Rick does with his ST in his Dawson?

Paul

Rick will put it to the test--The smooth bore tested against a benchmark 3 three groove.

[therealld]

I had opportunity to speak with Fred not so long ago about is barrels. He starts with i tube, spec'd to have very consistent and concentric wall thickness.

[RIng]

I have a number of barrels that I well be testing . I hope to get some work done on it soon . Well let you all know how it works out . Rick

[GordonDawson]

Anyone have a used 22 tight bore rimfire barrel they want to donate? It does not have to be choked. I have some experiments I want to try and when I get done it will not be usable.

[shadowalker]

Barrel steel is special in nature and consistancy and is expensive because it has to be so consistant . It is real hard to get steel that reams, drills and buttons the same producing same diameter bores per lot of steel. This is one of the reasons barrel manufactures buy in such large quantities. To insure just that.
Small diameter barrels such as our air rifle ones I doubt fall under the same criteria at this time and place . That may change down the road we will have to see what emerges. Now if the material is and I suspect it is around 25 Rockwell and without any special criteria or certs attached to it I suspect we have pretty much commercially drawn, drilled or reamed tubes perhaps centerless ground OD's and I would question the means of insuring very consistant wall thickness............well let's see what unfolds. Great tubes certainly can be made. The question is will some manufacturer address the problem........Perhaps we will get lucky.

Frank

[21grains]

Anchultz Barrel's Being Made and Straghtend Video. In German but You'll Get the Picture.....Franky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2jjl0fjB6E&feature=g-vrec

[mark6869]

Franky,how do you find this stuff? Think many of those 1956 barrels are still seeing action?I have a .630"lw on my m-rod,I think its a good barrel but am wondering if the
polygon would be better?Dan,did that Krieger shoot well? thanks,mark

[DanB]

The Kreiger is probably the best shooting air gun barrel I've ever used.
Dan


Franky,how do you find this stuff? Think many of those 1956 barrels are still seeing action?I have a .630"lw on my m-rod,I think its a good barrel but am wondering if the
polygon would be better?Dan,did that Krieger shoot well? thanks,mark

[shadowalker]

Guys, for what it's worth.

I have a friend in Russia currently their countries champion. He is a bit like us making and playing with the state of the art making the better mousetrap. A very talented shooter. Carl Boswell introduced him to me a couple of years ago after seeing one of his guns on the cover of Airgun magazine. Carl's comments were"Yes I know him very well he has beat my ass a number of times" Alex is now using CZ hammer forged barrels. He holds 2 of the top 3 places with his guns in the Russia with his guns and CZ barrels. He states they are far superior to LW for benchrest work. He sent me a target with 2 groups that did not go .080
I am in the process of trying to find where to get the barrels.
Frank

Frank

[DanB]

I tested the twist rate on a .177 smooth twist barrel yesterday, anyone want to guess what it is?
Dan

[DoctorBoudreau]

Guys, for what it's worth.

I have a friend in Russia currently their countries champion. He is a bit like us making and playing with the state of the art making the better mousetrap. A very talented shooter. Carl Boswell introduced him to me a couple of years ago after seeing one of his guns on the cover of Airgun magazine. Carl's comments were"Yes I know him very well he has beat my ass a number of times" Alex is now using CZ hammer forged barrels. He holds 2 of the top 3 places with his guns in the Russia with his guns and CZ barrels. He states they are far superior to LW for benchrest work. He sent me a target with 2 groups that did not go .080
I am in the process of trying to find where to get the barrels.
Frank

Frank

Not blanks but same barrels used in CZ200. Www.euroshooting.eu. Email: varga@iol.cz (secretary/PA is called Sarka). I was told 130 euro apiece, minimum 2. Several UK guys trying to get blanks I.e. not already machined but havent been able to secure any. I contacted CZ USA and no dice.

Here's a thread that mentions using them in a few builds.

http://www.airrifle.co.za/showthread.php?t=27174&highlight=blank

[JoeWillie]

Frank, Any ides as to what pellets work for him in the CZ barrels? DB just fit one to my gun but I haven't found the golden BB for it yet! The stock LW out shoots it so far, 749-53X is my best to date. As far as ST barrels go, I've tried 3, each one being worst than the one before it, with the last one being downright pathetic! Just my experience don't shoot the messenger!

Mark

[JeffKr]

I tested the twist rate on a .177 smooth twist barrel yesterday, anyone want to guess what it is?
Dan
How in the heck did nobody respond to this? I've heard it was extremely low - something like 1 rotation in 60 inches. What is it?? I'm assuming empirical tests?

[DanB]

1:96", yes empirical test.
Dan

[JeffKr]

So the next question is, assuming the newer smooth twist barrels that performed very well (not sure if there's politics involved or if certain heavy weight players didn't show up to displace them) in the recent aoa extreme benchrest competition didn't change that rate of rotation: are we overstabalizing our front-heavy pellets using formulas made for football shaped bullets? Can conventionally rifled barrels benefit from perhaps a far lesser twist rate? And are the conventional barrel manufacturer's even equipped to make a, say, 1 in 32" twist barrel?

[JG66]

Not blanks but same barrels used in CZ200. Www.euroshooting.eu. Email: varga@iol.cz (secretary/PA is called Sarka). I was told 130 euro apiece, minimum 2. Several UK guys trying to get blanks I.e. not already machined but havent been able to secure any. I contacted CZ USA and no dice.

Here's a thread that mentions using them in a few builds.

http://www.airrifle.co.za/showthread.php?t=27174&highlight=blank



DoctorBoudreau,

...indeed your info is correct...I got Mirsolav Varga to order me 5 X Cz 200 barrels (not entirely blanks - but good enough to machine) and had them sent to Jon Harris in the UK (he does all my modding & power pimping) - and am in the process of experimenting and fitting several on to spare Fwb P70 barrel holders; one is currently fitted on a power modded Walther LG 400 (12 ft/lb) and initial reports are positive...tough I have yet to get the Walther back and perform actual groupings & tests.

Just FYI, see this from Jon Harris: http://www.airrifle.co.za/showthread.php?t=31051&page=3

Regarding Barrel Twist Rate

"It got the better of me i tried to guage and compare the twist rates in various barrels old and new. Due to the various lengths involved treat my figure for comparison purposes.
No means scientific there could be errors, here goes make of it what you want.
P800 425 long 1 rev 16.77 ratio
CZ 477 long 16.69 ratio
P70FT 625 long 16.9? ratio
LG110 Walther issue 452 long approx 16 ratio
Walther 611 long 1 1/4 ish revs 19.2 ratio Bog standard available in shops
HW100 610 long 1 1/2 revs 18.77 ratio really notchy barrel could have slipped
8002 421 long 16.79 ratio
Vostok 419 long 16.8 ratio
Every barrel has a twist close on 1 rev for the same length. Around 15 years i have had a gut feeling its the way the power is delivered to the pellet but no way of testing or proving. The only other factor could be depth of rifling but doubt it having had a few over the years, they took serious wind. We all know springers take less wind than pneumatics, maybe this is it.

Known rifles with these barrels on take serious wind and a lot more than most.

Think the only way to confirm now is to put one of the above barrels on a P800. Know what i am thinking? No wind!"


Bottom line...Fwb 800 barrels (for the 10m event at low power) are SUPERB & ACCURATE like nothing ...even at the increased power mod of 11.5 ft/lb. And yes, the Fwb800 barrel can be bought for approx Euro239 a piece - unfortunately It comes with the steel sleeve, which would need to be heated to break the glue bonding to reveal the actual barrel.

Fwb agent I use in Europe is: Bogdan Kimla > http://www.pimpmyairgun.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=624

[JG66]

Regarding : Smooth Twist Barrels on Milbro Matisse (Ben Taylor air rifle) >> http://www.airgunshooting.co.uk/news/video_milbro_visit_1_1113433

From here > http://www.shooting-the-breeze.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14607&highlight=Matisse

"Hi I've tested a few FX Airguns with smoothtwist barrels I couldnt find any difference in accuracy to normal rifled. I've not long tested the FX Biathlon FX Field Target just waiting on a single shot converter. I was very sceptical burin practical testing groups are tight. Both versions I tested were .177 versions."

and

"I'm not a pro shooter in as much as I do not do comp's.
People in my club think I'm strange as I enjoys long distance shooting out to 100 yards.
I had taken of the MTC Genesis today and changed it for my Sightron 10-50 x 60.
Ranged in at 60 yards , and as it was still air I could put five pellets in to a Birchwood Casey shoot and see 1inch dot without to much trouble and was concistantly hitting a three inch shoot and see at just over 97 yards ( back end of our club range ).
Chrono today was reading 11.4 ft/lbs average , with well over 100 rounds per fill .
The twin shuttle took a while to get used to but it works fine for me now .
Found the sound of it ( or lack of it ) when it fires a little strangeas it is so quiet , have used JSB , H&N , and Wierauch pellets through it , not to much of a difference between them , i did have to alter the sight a lot more with the Matise , than I have ever done before with the Ripper or Airstream changing between those manufacturers .
Tank."


I guess the conclusion from the above - the Smooth Twist Barrels arent more, nor less accurate - so no performance gain, at 11.5 Ft/lb. Perhaps at FAC levels, and 0.22 caliber, that would be another story ?

[JeffKr]

That seems to be the consensus, but it's just odd to have a comparable level of accuracy with such a low rate of rotation when the pellets leave the barrel unless the rate of rotation simply doesn't need to be as high as is traditionally thought.