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View Full Version : Thank you Ray Hill for Laser Stands



Al Hadfield
11-17-2011, 02:31 PM
A while ago in the post titled "Wind, Wind and more Wind", the use of lasers was mentioned to help in setting out wind flags. I had never heard of this and of course rushed out and bought a couple for Penny and I.

Ray Hill was nice enough to make a couple of very nice custom stands to hold our latest gadget. They work great, and nice looking too! See photo below.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb327/PennyHadfield/LaserStand.jpg

Thanks Ray.

Al & Penny

frey
11-17-2011, 02:41 PM
Very nice!!

Pete Wass
11-17-2011, 06:41 PM
Just to be Obnoxious:

The rule sez the top of the bench to the bottom of the target. How can suspending a sighting device an inch or two above the bench be within the rules?

DonMatzeder
11-17-2011, 06:52 PM
It's just there to set the flags before the match starts....

tuna921
11-17-2011, 08:43 PM
A while ago in the post titled "Wind, Wind and more Wind", the use of lasers was mentioned to help in setting out wind flags. I had never heard of this and of course rushed out and bought a couple for Penny and I.

Ray Hill was nice enough to make a couple of very nice custom stands to hold our latest gadget. They work great, and nice looking too! See photo below.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb327/PennyHadfield/LaserStand.jpg

Thanks Ray.

Al & Penny

Al,

You are getting very high tech..........Looks great.......

Jim

mistermike
11-17-2011, 08:58 PM
Al,
I can't wait to see those laser beams bouncing on the target stands... and you can walk through them, unlike monofilament fishing line. ;)

Best,
Michael

garrisone
11-17-2011, 10:04 PM
It is a wonder that you frey -have not come up with such a device yourself. Surprising garrisone

frey
11-17-2011, 10:14 PM
It is a wonder that you frey -have not come up with such a device yourself. Surprising garrisone

Careful Eric.
Here's the thread Al mentions above. Scroll down about half way.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?80320-Wind-wind-and-more-wind/page4

garrisone
11-17-2011, 11:24 PM
I would bet that you have been working on this for a while. I know you were working on or with lasers sometime ago. As for being careful ' am I close or is there a warning there. garrisone.

garrisone
11-17-2011, 11:35 PM
I see I was correct. Your laser set up is a simple one. The simplest idea usually works best. The best thing is a mind that never gives up or rest until some progress is made. Such a mind will need some rest to continue to succeed. garrisone.

TangoTwo
11-18-2011, 07:39 AM
Al,
I can't wait to see those laser beams bouncing on the target stands... and you can walk through them, unlike monofilament fishing line. ;)

Best,
Michael


Mr. Mike,

You need to eat more of those brownies. It takes more than 10 lb. mono to hold me. Been known to snap that mono faster than a salmon. Mono is good because it's nearly invisable in the water. About the same on the range too!

Ken

mistermike
11-18-2011, 01:36 PM
Ken,
Good to hear from you. I can picture you taking out someone's mono!!! (smile).

Yeah the brownies ... back in the day brownies and lasers had a whole different meaning.

Michael

MIKECAMERON
11-18-2011, 02:15 PM
Just to be Obnoxious:

The rule sez the top of the bench to the bottom of the target. How can suspending a sighting device an inch or two above the bench be within the rules?

What does the rule concerning FLAGS have to do with a sighting device?

admin
11-18-2011, 05:20 PM
What does the rule concerning FLAGS have to do with a sighting device?

I believe Pete was thinking that any flag out there that the light touched would be above the rule limit - assuming the laser was level.

Pete Wass
11-18-2011, 10:06 PM
I believe Pete was thinking that any flag out there that the light touched would be above the rule limit - assuming the laser was level.

Twas exactly that. What is the point of rules if they are ignored? Of course, there is a problem witht the rule. Let's say the bench is not level. Which part of the bench does one use as the top? Is it the high end or low end? If one were to sight down some benches they would be way far below the target frame. Quite often benches are made out- of- level so that rain and wet, in general will run off from them.

One would assume one would use the highest point but then the rule is silent about benches not being level. I think it possible to use lazers to set flags but the rules need to be considered, IMHO.

A shooting org I have competed in for a very long time use to have a rule that said the flags must be below the flight of the bullet. It seemed to me and still does that this rule was appropriate to shooting and using flags. The rule was changed to bench top to target frame bottom, which has never made sense to me. In this case, it was the influence of NBRSA that instituted this change- unity, of sorts, I guess.

admin
11-19-2011, 04:27 AM
I'm sure the others are just using the laser to "locate" where to place the flag...and then setting it below the defined height.

And...it's always the high edge of the bench. You can't look at a row of flags across the low edge. Further, if you use either to set your flags you'll always be legal.

Slick Willy
11-19-2011, 10:42 AM
Kinda like Washington ,DC ;wanting more but can`t see the problem! It is done in who`s best interest?

mistermike
11-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Pete,
I would use the laser just to make it easier to align the flags to where I want them; and then adjust the height according to the rules.

Best,
Michael

rputzbach
11-19-2011, 06:02 PM
In ARA I don't believe there's a rule for flags above the top of benches

frey
11-19-2011, 07:18 PM
From the IR5050 Rule Book.


Flags shall be no higher than line of sight from bench top to bottom of target.

Slick Willy
11-19-2011, 10:00 PM
From the IR5050 Rule Book.

How many rules are in that 50/50 rule book, never seen one ,I am curious? Why would you care if some Dumb a_ _ shot his flags.Touched in flags in a match, picked up his blown over flags ,moved his flags or hung his target side ways. I guess I just don`t get it .Putzbach , somebody had an agenda once upon a time and no one has seen the light. More is less they say!

Pete Wass
11-20-2011, 11:20 AM
Pete,
I would use the laser just to make it easier to align the flags to where I want them; and then adjust the height according to the rules.

Best,
Michael

Perhaps I am a bit like Friend BC. My intention here was for someone to consider the problem and come up with a solution, not to pick it to death. It should be possible to make some sort of fixture that would allow the Lazer to shine from the top of the bench to the bottom of the target frame. There is no doubt that the lazer is a great device but why not simply set it up so that one can set and adjust their flags once. Doesn't make sense to me to do it more than once is all I am thinking here.

Me, I am leary of using them because I have heard more than one person say they could and would trash one's eye or eyes if they were looked directly at. I know from driving at night that sometimes I look dierctly into bright headlights so I am thinking I might not be able to resist the temptation to look at the dern beam. :(. I am not opposed to their use in any way.

Thanks,

Pete

Pete Wass
11-20-2011, 11:25 AM
How many rules are in that 50/50 rule book, never seen one ,I am curious? Why would you care if some Dumb a_ _ shot his flags.Touched in flags in a match, picked up his blown over flags ,moved his flags or hung his target side ways. I guess I just don`t get it .Putzbach , somebody had an agenda once upon a time and no one has seen the light. More is less they say!

The Rule Book is listed as a Download on the IR 50/50 site. I haven't counted the rules but there are a number of pages in it. I don't know if there is a published book but now -a-day Orgs seem to have them available on line as a Download. It's a good idea to read the rule book sevaral times at first and then re-read it every now and again, if you're anything like me. I often don't remember what I had for breakfast :).

Al Hadfield
11-20-2011, 11:29 AM
"My intention here was for someone to consider the problem and come up with a solution..."

Pete, you are making a problem where non exist!!!

Al

Charles E
11-20-2011, 11:34 AM
How many rules are in that 50/50 rule book, never seen one ,I am curious? Why would you care if some Dumb a_ _ shot his flags.

I don't care if some dumb a__ shoots his flags. What I care about is if some dumb a__ gets his flags in my line of sight. Most people offset them, you know.

If they're all required to be below a line from the top of the bench to the bottom of the target, them they're not in anybody's line of sight.

DonMatzeder
11-20-2011, 11:46 AM
True but.....how many folks do you know that have a rest that is less than an inch tall?????

Charles E
11-20-2011, 11:59 AM
True but.....how many folks do you know that have a rest that is less than an inch tall?????Well, the point of the rule is it lets the rangemaster go out & put the offending flag on the ground. The rangemaster has to follow a rule, so there is one.

Now this may only be a problem in the CF world. I know you RF guys are such gentlemen that if another competitor got up from the bench & removed one (or more) of your flags, you'd not only offer him/her a cup of coffee, but offer to pay them for their trouble.

You'll just have to take my word that some CF people get a might prickly. Since some of us can take out a target over half a mile away, it seemed best to have a rule. No doubt whoever wrote the RF rules was unaware of you guys gentle disposition.

Edit: But I agree there is no problem with the device. It's pretty easy to compensate for that 1/2 inch. And it's such a nice bit of work!.

Slick Willy
11-20-2011, 12:03 PM
Charles ,have you ever shot at Chattanooga , the bench on either side of yours could vary a foot or more in front of each bench,no one to my knowledge has had a problem with it ,but if I understand your argument the flags next to you could be no higher than yours because they would be in your line of sight. Maybe another rule is needed !

frey
11-20-2011, 05:20 PM
"My intention here was for someone to consider the problem and come up with a solution..."

Pete, you are making a problem where non exist!!!

Al

I have to agree.

This all started as a solution to a problem. My problem.
I didn't want to interfere with my competitors line of sight, nor did I want to risk shooting my flags.
I also wasn't interested is pulling a string every time I set up or had to rotate.
And most important, I wanted to see my flags the same every time.

The laser solves all these problems at once.

frey
11-20-2011, 05:25 PM
Perhaps I am a bit like Friend BC.

Really?
Did you really mean to type that?

Of all the thinkers and solvers in the world?

Really?

Slick Willy
11-20-2011, 07:41 PM
Really?
Did you really mean to type that?

Of all the thinkers and solvers in the world?

Really?

That`s a good one Jeff!! Livonia is proud of ya! Seen several folks using lazers and work super,plan to get one myself ,anything thatworks and makes it easier is a plus!

Pete Wass
11-20-2011, 09:31 PM
What I meant by that was he seems to always be trying to get folks to think but it would appear that most of us just want to wait for the information to be revealed. I know that is where I'm at. I am only interested in solving the problems I am interested in.

Time for me to butt out of this.

Pete Wass
11-20-2011, 09:40 PM
I'm sure you're right Al. Cabin Fever I guess :).

Pete

BARTMAN
11-20-2011, 10:11 PM
If I may ask a question without hijacking the thread. How close to the target are you guys setting the flags? Are you setting them dirctly under? How would they be in the next bench's site line ? I have only shot one match with a lot of wind flags but did not really pay attention to how they were set up.

admin
11-21-2011, 03:09 AM
If I may ask a question without hijacking the thread. How close to the target are you guys setting the flags? Are you setting them dirctly under? How would they be in the next bench's site line ? I have only shot one match with a lot of wind flags but did not really pay attention to how they were set up.

"How close to the target...? This is very much variable. Most folks divide how ever many flags they have over the distance being contested.

It's not so much that they are affecting the adjacent benches but rather the bench itself. Consider a match that has multiple relays. One equipment setup might be just fine and the next guy can't see the bottom of the target. Once in a while, it all looks OK and the match begins only to discover when the wind changes a flag flipped over the edge of somebody's target. The subject rule was implemented to prevent these occurrences and the subsequent interruption of the match.

garrisone
11-21-2011, 09:53 AM
"How close to the target...? This is very much variable. Most folks divide how ever many flags they have over the distance being contested.

It's not so much that they are affecting the adjacent benches but rather the bench itself. Consider a match that has multiple relays. One equipment setup might be just fine and the next guy can't see the bottom of the target. Once in a while, it all looks OK and the match begins only to discover when the wind changes a flag flipped over the edge of somebody's target. The subject rule was implemented to prevent these occurrences and the subsequent interruption of the match.

The only way that the lasers can affect anything is when someone or a group of people are down range adjusting their flags and have the laser beams hit them in the eyes. Lasers can burn the retnia and cause blindness. It is against federal law to flash laser beams at airplanes as an example. garrisone.