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rdh5525
11-01-2011, 03:49 PM
In need of a set of scale weights.
7.5# 10.5 # 13.5 #

KEITH MYERS
11-01-2011, 08:49 PM
Last I heard Don "Pumpkin" Nielson was making weights.

admin
11-04-2011, 01:20 PM
OR...one 7.5# and two 3# - whichever is the cheapest.

If you're gonna have check weights they either need to be certified or have the appearance of being certified. If there's no actual requirement to have check weights, the better choice is to not have check weights. The applicable rule has to be very specific to accomodate the use of check weights. Otherwise the weights become an annoyance rather than an asset.

LASER
11-05-2011, 06:03 PM
There was a problem going from one club to another to another and getting consistent weights. My shooting buddy actually was DQ'd because a gun he shot and won with was too heavy. He won the week before and the gun passed. Wasn't down to the nit's hair either. He went to the PA Dept of Agriculture and worked with the guy there. They actually finished pouring the lead and establishing Certified weights with Stamps. Questionable weighing scale no more. Was not all that difficult and took an interesting afternoon to do.
TMT
Hanover PA

admin
11-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Do you recall the fee for the certification?

Pete Wass
11-05-2011, 11:48 PM
I have yet to see one that didn't show the exact value of any of the weights so what is the point of haveing the exact weight combo for all the weight classes? If a scale, for instance, will weigh a 5 lb weight the same three times or five times or whatever, why do we need to weight 13.5 lbs of weight? Don't make no sense to me. When I first started shooting, some clubs had balances that required sitting the exact weight on one side of the balance and the rifle on the other but times have changed. I guess it's a trust thing but once the test weight is taken off an electronic scale, it becomes all trust, doesn't it? One could verify an electronic scale with a one oz weight, for instance but there is no need for more then one that I can see.

LASER
11-06-2011, 11:37 AM
Do you recall the fee for the certification?

Donít think there was any. I work in a facility that has lots of calibrated sensitive instruments. I contacted the people who do our yearly calís and struck out. Was headed to the next level when John called me at work. Turns out he called around to State Govt. agencies Ďtill he got the right one. Guy in a third floor lab with lots of fancy scales etc. John poured lead into PVC pipe close as he could on his spring scale. Went to the lab in Harrisburg PA where he and the guy worked together and gotterí done. Exact weights with offical calibration stickers. Our tax dollars at work. What the two Petes discussed does apply here. John, being a Totally no nonsense sorta feller eliminated the opportunity for such. Donít think he had the opportunity to trot them out as two of the three ranges donít shoot anymore. Check Weights are available on line but I do not know if custom weights are available. If you wish to contact me for more particulars please do so.
Use this address as I canít always check the forums.
tmt5729@comcast.net

Pete Wass
11-06-2011, 11:41 AM
Pete
Scales don't all weigh the same and no one will certify a scale that is moved from space to space.
Now having said that if the club keeps there scale in the same space and brings the gun to it, it could be certified.
A gun weighed on a scale at one club at 7#4oz then at another club that weighed the gun at 7#9oz
and disqualifies it, well you have a problem.
Not all scales will weigh true but if you had certified weights to prove the scale was off then you couldn't be disqualified??
At one time Wilbur was going to furnish weights for all the clubs but that never happened, so we are all on our own.
If it's a state shoot or the Nationals and the scales are not certified and no weights to check with, then what?!
Pete

Pete,

I have heard of this happening and know it does. What I was trying to say is if there was one certified weight amount used by everyone ( everyone would have to have one ), it wouldn't matter what it weighed. As I said, I have not seen a scale that, when a certified weight was placed on it, it did not show exactly that weight on the readout. Any that do should be discarded; when one considers how inexpensive they are now.

I also was a Referee in a match once where in a shooter won a match, setting a record and his rifle was too heavy. He declared up hill and down that his rifle was un-touched from the last time it was weighed and had pased at another range. We repeatedly weighed certified weights and other rifles to show him the scales were fine. When all was said and done, he had scales at home that weighed in lbs and tenths. He had changed either his barrel or scope and took his Lbs and tenths reading as is rifle being OK. There is some difference between .8 snd 8 oz. He apoligized, after the fact, to everyone except those he should have, the Referees.

admin
11-06-2011, 01:30 PM
Pete R. - Having known for a long time the expense of check weights I don't think I ever said I would furnish them to all the clubs. I might have said it was a good idea....in an attempt to move on to the next problem.

Pete W. - I don't disagree but I do know that a scale that weighs right on the money at 5 pounds won't always do the same at 10 pounds....especially the scales that have adjustment screws.

tim
11-06-2011, 09:35 PM
Pretty soon Wilbur you're going to end up on the grassy knoll in Dallas.

Butch Lambert
11-06-2011, 10:36 PM
I bought my 10.5 and 3LB pound official test weights from the NBRSA. They normally have them in stock. I believe Don Neilson makes them.
Butch

Pete Wass
11-07-2011, 12:52 AM
Pete R. - Having known for a long time the expense of check weights I don't think I ever said I would furnish them to all the clubs. I might have said it was a good idea....in an attempt to move on to the next problem.

Pete W. - I don't disagree but I do know that a scale that weighs right on the money at 5 pounds won't always do the same at 10 pounds....especially the scales that have adjustment screws.

I have never seen one of the newer Electronic Postage type scales with an adjustment screw in it. Tha seems to be what folks are using everywhere I have been in the past few years. I never saw one yet that when a 3 lb weight was placed on it it said anything but three pounds and when a 10lb weight was placed on it right behind that it said 10 lbs and then when an 8 oz weight put on it it said anything but 8 oz.. I guess I could be in a minority on this one but if a scale didn't weigh two different weights correctly, how could it be trusted to give one an accurate reading at any time?

burtona
11-07-2011, 10:15 AM
The scales don't have to record the weights correctly. The weights give you an accurate reference for a "go weight" on that particular scale. If the scale gives a 10.5 lb test weight a 10.25 reading then you know that any rifle weighting 10.25 or under on that scale is legal. Same for the other classes.

admin
11-07-2011, 02:57 PM
Pete - I don't think you're in the minority at all. Those scales you reference are quite accurate but given the set of ALL those scales it just takes one to create an often unfixable problem. Ferreting out that scale is the purpose of check weights. Again, the way to go here is with a solid rule governing the weighing process, and check weights. In the absence of either, it's just a matter of time that somebody gets DQ'd unnecessarily or with a strong appeal.

And...those adjustment screws are normally inside the case to keep folks from messin' with them.

admin
11-07-2011, 03:54 PM
The scales don't have to record the weights correctly. The weights give you an accurate reference for a "go weight" on that particular scale. If the scale gives a 10.5 lb test weight a 10.25 reading then you know that any rifle weighting 10.25 or under on that scale is legal. Same for the other classes.

Let's take that to an extreme and look at it again. Suppose there are 15 competitors and the scale reads 9 pounds with a 10 pound check weight. 7 of the 15 get DQ'd and appeal the decision. Would it really matter what their rifles actually weighed at the time? Compound that with the clause "the decision of the referees is final" and you've got a real problem on your hands.

Hope this never happens to such an extent but the mental exercise is what I'm going for here. Where would you draw the line and more importantly, where would others draw the line. Assuredly, not in the same place.