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View Full Version : Favorite Bullet Seating Depth tool?



Gary O
07-16-2011, 10:39 AM
What say you?

DaveT
07-16-2011, 11:05 AM
GaryO, this is a good topic and I will follow this thread, although it has been covered before it is worth hashing out again. I have a Sinclair, Stoney Point and other methods of finding the lands. I use the Stoney Point a lot, the argument against the Stoney Point is the unfired case as it relates to head space and this is a good point, but I find it a great tool to get you close and adjust from there.
Dave T

nhkuehl
07-16-2011, 11:15 AM
I use the Stoney Point/Hornady Lock and Load gages. I added a guide to it to center the gage in the action, which gives me more consistent measurements. Like DaveT said, it is a starting point. I also have a drill and tap so I can make my own cases for calibers that I need. - nhk

DaveT
07-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Yes nhk, we also drill and tap our own cases after being fired a couple times. But please show us a pic of your centering guide.
Dave T

nhkuehl
07-16-2011, 03:19 PM
The guide is 1.25" long X .375" ID and .695" OD and is held in place where ever you want it by an o-ring slipped on either side of the bushing. I did this before I got my lathe, so I used bronze bushings from Ace Hardware. Now I would make one out of Delrin or aluminum. I slide it to where it is centered in the rear of the action and you can see it holds the case pretty well centered. - nhk

DaveT
07-16-2011, 03:40 PM
Very cool nhk and yes it does look nice and lined up.
Dave T

TedH
07-16-2011, 03:41 PM
I use a dummy round with some lube on the ogive area of the bullet.

Ted

sbindy
07-16-2011, 03:46 PM
I like the Sinclair tool. It allows me to check a variety of cartridges without needing a seperate tool or adaptor for each one.

nhkuehl
07-16-2011, 10:42 PM
I use a dummy round with some lube on the ogive area of the bullet.

Ted

Ted - Could you explain how you set up and use the dummy round and what you are looking for? Thanks. - nhk

alinwa
07-17-2011, 02:05 PM
I'm firmly with Ted.

I think that adding tools only increases the likelihood of tolerance stack.

I don't use lube like Ted does but other than that....... here's how I've done it. Several options.

Most often I simply deprime a case, run thru the resizer to set the neck tension at about .001-.0015 interference to overcome the ejector plunger spring and have at it. I seat a bullet 'long,' measure, close the bolt and remeasure to see that it moved. The remeasured round is "jamset" by the rifling lands. No tools, it's actually set by the rifle, in the rifle, on one of your own rounds.

Some alternatives;
-remove the ejector if you're REALLY trying to find .000 engagement (I dunno WHY but anyways...)
-color the bullet with a silver sharpie to easily see engagement marks
-slot a neck with a small saw for an adjustable tension round
-simply tap a small ding in a fired neck if in the field

etc etc... all better ways than interjecting an unnecessary tool.

opinionsby


al

mike in co
07-17-2011, 07:02 PM
if one uses thier own fired cases, no need for a centering tool. drill and tap your own case....no issues.
i did make expanders to get close to zero bullet hold, and still straight.
use the same bullet as the bbl wears, so the measurements mean something.
i do not go for jam, but for touch. the same touch a machinist uses when using a mic. touch, not a c clamp.
my issue with those that do jam is that in my opinion it is not precise. how many of you have optical comparitors to measure the lenght and width of the marks ??
and a newly chambered bbl will not have the same "seat" /contact as a worn fired bbl.....so how does the initial measurement relate to later meaurements ?
again just my opinion.
( so yes i use the basic stoney point tools but typically my own cases.)
mike in co

Bob Kingsbury
07-17-2011, 09:57 PM
Contrary to popular opinion, not all barrels shoot at jam

mike in co
07-17-2011, 10:29 PM
bob, that is just one more reason to be able to measure where the lands are not not some amount of jamb based on lenght eguals width, ot twice the width..etc.
mike in co

Contrary to popular opinion, not all barrels shoot at jam

TedH
07-17-2011, 11:01 PM
I do it pretty close to the way that Al explains it. However after I seat the bullet in the case, I put a bit of case lube on the bullet so it doesn't get stuck in the lands and pull out.
Then I know where the lands are. I use a fairly long pointy bullet with a 10 GO so there isn't to much of the bullet left in the case next when by the time I give it about .005 jam.
Ted

nhkuehl
07-17-2011, 11:10 PM
I do it pretty close to the way that Al explains it. However after I seat the bullet in the case, I put a bit of case lube on the bullet so it doesn't get stuck in the lands and pull out.
Then I know where the lands are. I use a fairly long pointy bullet with a 10 GO so there isn't to much of the bullet left in the case next when by the time I give it about .005 jam.
Ted

I was wondering if you were looking for the jam length or a certain amount of rifling engraving. I've done that (without lube) and stuck a few bullets, or had different lengths due to some of the bullets getting pulled back out slightly on extraction. I prefer to see where they just 'touch' and then adjust from that length, which for me is 0.010-0.015" jump for 'naked' bullets and 0.010-0.020" jam on coated bullets. I always keep in mind I may need to extract a round and a pulled bullet sure can make a mess. Thanks. - nhk

abintx
07-17-2011, 11:57 PM
What say you?

I use the bullet itself in a dummy round looking for either a square mark or a mark twice as long as it is wide, at the ogive, depending on how deep I want to seat it. With my 6PPC I use .003" to .004" neck tension, that N133 seems to like, so I've never had a problem with bullets sticking in the barrel.

TedH
07-19-2011, 12:21 AM
I am just trying to find out where they touch the lands.

KAZ
07-21-2011, 09:04 AM
I've been using the "slotted case" method that alinwa mentioned. I start with a once fired case and dremel three spaced slots in the neck. With the bullet set long I can feel the contact. I do have to be careful and not drag the round on extraction. Has made it easy/quick to change bullets. Regards

tenring
07-21-2011, 07:51 PM
I tried different tools and finally settled on the Davidson base and nose pieces sold by Sinclair. With these, I can hit my desired OAL spot on. I usually seat about 5 or so thou high, and sit them in a loading block according to their height above my desired OAL. The block identifies each row by .001" increments.

Best way to find where a bullet is just kissing is to mark a cleaning rod at muzzle with bolt in gun, then remove bolt and insert a bare bullet in the chamber. Mark cleaning rod again when it contacts bullet meplat, difference will be OAL for that bullets. But don't stop there. Load a dummy round and after bullet is shined up with 0000 steel wool, try it again until you can just barely see contact with the lands. On factory barrels, this is sometimes difficult.

PS - The Davidson nose pieces can be used to measure bearing length if you buy two nose pieces in that caliber and attach them to your caliper.

mike in co
07-21-2011, 08:06 PM
and just where do you get a precise tool to measure to the "mark" on the cleaning rod ??
you are kidding me right ??
you sort loaded rounds by .001...but use a "mark" on a cleaning rod to find when they just touch ??
....and why are your loaded rounds off from the correct/desired length ??
what ???
mike in co

I tried different tools and finally settled on the Davidson base and nose pieces sold by Sinclair. With these, I can hit my desired OAL spot on. I usually seat about 5 or so thou high, and sit them in a loading block according to their height above my desired OAL. The block identifies each row by .001" increments.

Best way to find where a bullet is just kissing is to mark a cleaning rod at muzzle with bolt in gun, then remove bolt and insert a bare bullet in the chamber. Mark cleaning rod again when it contacts bullet meplat, difference will be OAL for that bullets. But don't stop there. Load a dummy round and after bullet is shined up with 0000 steel wool, try it again until you can just barely see contact with the lands. On factory barrels, this is sometimes difficult.

PS - The Davidson nose pieces can be used to measure bearing length if you buy two nose pieces in that caliber and attach them to your caliper.

tenring
07-21-2011, 08:22 PM
Mike, you been around long enough to not ask stupid questions. I put a small piece of adhesive tape on the cleaning rod before I mark it. Do I need to explain simple details?

Bullets are not perfect. The ogive (do you know what that is?) varies slightly on most all bullets. That is why I catalog them before reaching final seating depth.
and just where do you get a precise tool to measure to the "mark" on the cleaning rod ??
you are kidding me right ??
you sort loaded rounds by .001...but use a "mark" on a cleaning rod to find when they just touch ??
....and why are your loaded rounds off from the correct/desired length ??
what ???
mike in co

mike in co
07-21-2011, 09:28 PM
even with tape on the rod...a mark has some width to it, and tuff enought to mark riight at the muzzle....the width of the marker influences the mark....and then measure to where on the mark....
measure ogive to base BEFORE SEATING( as in sort them first), and then skip the multiple seating operation.
most benchrest bullets are very close....production bullets not so.
sorry but essentially every method described before is more accurate than your method.

mike in co

RL Weikart
07-21-2011, 11:05 PM
Tenring, I use your method of finding the seating depth. i found that using a couple of Sinclair's Cleaning Rod stops on the cleaning rod is a little more accurate than marks on the tape. Sure is a great starting point.

alinwa
07-22-2011, 02:15 AM
AND you can measure with a tape! No need for buying expensive calipers.....

needs vary

al

tenring
07-22-2011, 05:51 AM
You are correct. I did not mention that because most shooters do not have the stops. I use a custom made set of two 1"x 2" aluminum cylinder stops, tapped and threaded for a screw in the center. With end of cleaning rod against the bolt, one cylinder is fixed in place and tightened. Then, with bullet jammed in bore, the second cylinder is secured. The width is measured with caliper. You must remember that THIS MEASUREMENT JUST GETS YOU CLOSE TO YOUR OAL. YOU NEED TO VERIFY IT BY SEATING A BULLET IN A CASE AND CHAMBER IT, THEN LOOK FOR THE KISSING MARKS.


Mike, I do not think competiton benchrest shooting is in your future. You might consider golf or tennis.



Tenring, I use your method of finding the seating depth. i found that using a couple of Sinclair's Cleaning Rod stops on the cleaning rod is a little more accurate than marks on the tape. Sure is a great starting point.

mike in co
07-22-2011, 10:07 AM
.
Mike, I do not think competiton benchrest shooting is in your future. You might consider golf or tennis.

right this from a guy using "marks" on a rod for seating depth, adjusting the seating on bullets rather than sort the bullets first.......
so lets get you to complete the description of your "method"....
if i use a cleaning rod with no jag, i get the bolt face mesurement, but when it is put on top of a pointy bullet the the tip of the bullet goes in the rod....oppps there goes the meadurement.
most jags dod not habe a nive flat surface on teh end...so opps there goes consistancy of the measurement......well ...well within tolerance of "marks".....

mike in co

mike in co
07-22-2011, 10:37 AM
nice if not using brass fired in your gun, but if one drills and taps brass from the gun, no need to center....its fire formed to the chamber....
mike in co


The guide is 1.25" long X .375" ID and .695" OD and is held in place where ever you want it by an o-ring slipped on either side of the bushing. I did this before I got my lathe, so I used bronze bushings from Ace Hardware. Now I would make one out of Delrin or aluminum. I slide it to where it is centered in the rear of the action and you can see it holds the case pretty well centered. - nhk

tenring
07-22-2011, 03:20 PM
if i use a cleaning rod with no jag, i get the bolt face mesurement, but when it is put on top of a pointy bullet the the tip of the bullet goes in the rod....oppps there goes the meadurement.
most jags dod not habe a nive flat surface on teh end...so opps there goes consistancy of the measurement......well ...well within tolerance of "marks".....

mike in co

Your right this time, but unfortunately you have no imagination. I cut the bristles off an old bronze brush, file the end flat, and thread that into the end of my cleaning rod. Thus, the flat stub which remains, does contact the meplat.

GerryM
07-22-2011, 10:30 PM
The old fashon cleaning rod method.

mike in co
07-22-2011, 11:39 PM
no i actually have an imagination.....i imagined you would put all the facts in your "best" method.......
you seem to forget lots of details in your "best" method....
mike in co


Your right this time, but unfortunately you have no imagination. I cut the bristles off an old bronze brush, file the end flat, and thread that into the end of my cleaning rod. Thus, the flat stub which remains, does contact the meplat.

nhkuehl
07-23-2011, 08:51 AM
We don't all have to use the same method, just what works for us and all it is is a starting point. I use a Stoney Point gage and a friend I develope loads for uses a Sinclair nut and they don't measure the same point on the ogive, so he measures the loads I give him before he reloads and uses his numbers and they shoot the same. Before I got a Stoney point gage I used to jam the bullet and then back off 1/16" on the OAL and had good results. - nhk

GerryM
07-23-2011, 09:10 AM
The cleaning rod method Is one of the best ways . You don't have to buy a bunch of other tools to do the job, Also you can use it on any caliber. Stops are ok , so are pencil marks if you patient. The idea is to get fairly close.
After all later we usually adjust the seating depth for our best load. The one thing we have to watch and most of us know this, On hunting rifles sometimes it doesn't work too well due to magazine length.

mikecr
07-23-2011, 11:16 AM
I use an 'R-P tool' which is a purpose built cleaning rod really(with flat end & stops). Works very well.
In this thread WOODS talks about it with pics:
http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9027
This takes the measurement to the boltface, which makes sense.

Then I make the dummy round with the matching OAL(to THAT bullet's tip), and measure Max OgvOAL(initial) with a Sinclair nut & log it. I keep the dummy round in a jag tube marked by bullet/chamber for setting up my seating die.
From that point all adjustments are w/resp to that OgvOAL using the nut.

nhkuehl
07-23-2011, 01:06 PM
The only objection I have to the rod method is working from the muzzle end and contacting the crown. Just my own preference. - nhk

mikecr
07-23-2011, 02:41 PM
Well it seems like it should be taken to the actual boltface, & the muzzle provides the only access.
Now if someone made a modified HS gage(GO gage) that would allow bullet holding/adjusting, this would be taken to the boltface(from shoulder) provided the gage was specifically for that chamber.
This would be about as accurate as the R-P tool, and way more accurate than Stoney point method. But it would be expensive as ordered with each chamber reamer.

quandary
07-24-2011, 08:38 PM
I bought the Sinclair and got excellent, repeatable, results with Stiller and Panda actions, but I couldn't get it to work in an AR, no matter what I did. The Stony Point gauge works fine in the AR. Go figure.

sbindy
07-24-2011, 10:14 PM
The Sinclair tool works with the AR-15, however, it uses its own seperate guide.

quandary
07-24-2011, 11:56 PM
The Sinclair tool works with the AR-15, however, it uses its own seperate guide.

I know, I bought the requisite guide and couldn't get repeatable results.

caroby
07-26-2011, 11:31 AM
I like the Sinclair tool. It allows me to check a variety of cartridges without needing a seperate tool or adaptor for each one.


Some think this simple tool is not accurate enough.....??... Works PERFECTLY for me and IS accurate... Doesn't tie-up your calipers (being "attached") during a match, 30 min between matches goes FAST...!
The Nut...
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34262/Product/Sinclair_Hex_Style_Bullet_Comparators

cale

mikecr
07-26-2011, 11:53 AM
caroby, I think the context of discussion so far has been 'methods of finding the lands' from which to reference seating depth settings.
The sinclair/stoney point/Hornady tools referred to so far are for finding max oal.

The nut works great, but it is only a comparator used with resp to a max oal dummy round.

mike in co
07-26-2011, 12:39 PM
mike...
when you say "max oal" you are refering to the lands oal??not tip of bullet oal...correct ?
ya got me confused with your statement.
(my opinion is the stoney point will get me to the lands, repeatable)
mike in co

caroby, I think the context of discussion so far has been 'methods of finding the lands' from which to reference seating depth settings.
The sinclair/stoney point/Hornady tools referred to so far are for finding max oal.

The nut works great, but it is only a comparator used with resp to a max oal dummy round.

Fergus Bailey
07-26-2011, 04:14 PM
The nut works great, but it is only a comparator used with resp to a max oal dummy round.

If you are using a case with a long seated bullet to find the "jam" by having the lands push the bullet into the case for a given bullet/chamber combination, then a "comparator" is what you need to find the measurement. I personally prefer the stonypoint ogive gage to the Sinclair "nut", but they both do the same job.

mikecr
07-26-2011, 05:11 PM
No matter the tool used(if using one at all) to create max oal(bullet touching, casehead to tip), anyone would then need to take this to OgvOAL using a preferred comparator.
They are different tools. You don't 'create' max oal with a comparator. You find OgvOAL with a comparator.
I was just trying to clarify that to keep apples with apples.

mike in co
07-26-2011, 06:17 PM
i honestly thought the original question was about SEATING depth tool...ogive...not coal...cartridge oal.
some people kinda drifted around for a while....
mike in co

nhkuehl
07-26-2011, 07:18 PM
After reading the different methods I got curious how the jam length would compare to my touch reading with the Stoney Point gage so I took some 69 gr Sierra MatchKing bullets and used the Stoney Point gage and then loaded a dummy round and greased the tip and jammed the bullet.... there was 0.140" difference. The jam was 0.140" greater and left no obvious marks on the bullet. I don't normally shoot the 69 MK bullets, but decided to load accross that range of difference and see what the seating depth does accuracy wise. The jam length was 0.136" greater than magazine length. - nhk

mikecr
07-26-2011, 08:49 PM
How did you create your touching -vs- jammed condition?

nhkuehl
07-26-2011, 09:45 PM
How did you create your touching -vs- jammed condition?

I used light finger pressure to a stop with the bullet through the Stoney Point gage and then I lightly neck-sized a case and started a bullet, applied grease, and closed the bolt (ejector removed) on it. This is a factory rifle and the throat is not symmetrical, or is offset, which some people prefer I'd say. I would guess the offset stopped the bullet with the finger pressure because I can force it past that point and the bullet will stay in the throat when I remove the gage. - nhk

mike in co
07-26-2011, 10:28 PM
nhk,
the proper touch in using precise measuring tools is a learned skill. if you could move the bullet an additional 130 plus thou...your touch is off. its not just a light touch but feeling that you are at the end also. it takes a little time. there is atleast one poster on here that claims the tool does not work, because HE could not use it.
practice, practice and practice.
mike in co

I used light finger pressure to a stop with the bullet through the Stoney Point gage and then I lightly neck-sized a case and started a bullet, applied grease, and closed the bolt (ejector removed) on it. This is a factory rifle and the throat is not symmetrical, or is offset, which some people prefer I'd say. I would guess the offset stopped the bullet with the finger pressure because I can force it past that point and the bullet will stay in the throat when I remove the gage. - nhk

nhkuehl
07-26-2011, 10:46 PM
I stop at a touch out of preference. I allow the case neck to direct the bullet until it stops and then seat backed off. My theory is if the bullet is tipped by the offset the tip will not be centered in the bore, but if you jump, the bullet will bump up into the grooves before the rifling engraves and will be closer to concentric. That rifle has shot well for me this way. Without an offset, it's not an issue. The point of handloading is to get the most out of an individual rifle and that may require experimentation. Which is what I intend to do with the 69 gr MK bullets.

We each have our own way of doing things and I've learned what works for me, correct or not, through trial and error over 40 years, but I'm always interested in re-visiting the process and hearing other opinions. - nhk

Charles E
07-27-2011, 08:45 PM
What the hell, it's the 50th post in this thread. My favorite tools are calipers, scotchbright and a loupe. Gotta have them all. The rest -- barrel & case & bullet aren't really *tools*, but are all I need.

nhkuehl
07-28-2011, 08:18 AM
What the hell, it's the 50th post in this thread. My favorite tools are calipers, scotchbright and a loupe. Gotta have them all. The rest -- barrel & case & bullet aren't really *tools*, but are all I need.

Hey, we missed you Charles! 50 posts, but look at all the things I've learned I've been doing wrong. - nhk

Pete Wass
07-28-2011, 08:36 AM
years ago and quickly saw the oportunity for errors to creep in so I sold it. In my mind, the only certain way to determine the actual seating depth is with an inert case, the bullet from the lot of bullets you are going to use, lite neck tension and one's rifle's bolt.

That method is so easy to do and so reliable please tell me why a person would ever want to go at it differently, please - - - -

It also helps a lot to have a seater with a micrometer top so that one can reliably push their bullets back in reliable increments.

I can pretty much tell everyone this, With normal neck tension and cranking the bullet into the lands, one has seated their bullet at least .016 and perhaps as much as .025 into the lands. From where it becomes a bit difficult to see land marks and where one can just fainty see land marks is 5 or 6 thou. So, if a person is .006 in, they are in a lot less than most people and I have found, over the years that .006 has been a magic seating depth in my 30 cal tight neck little or no freebore rifles.

So, to answer the question, no devices beyond a case and a bullet.

nhkuehl
07-28-2011, 09:55 AM
So, to answer the question, no devices beyond a case and a bullet.

I'll suggest one more device... neck sizing dies. The last time I used jam length to find seating depth I was still using full length sizing dies (20 years ago?) and they were sizing the neck down .004" and I was getting a lot of engraving when I seated by jam (I wasn't greasing the bullet either). I tried a cleaning rod and stop collars, but after using the Stoney Point gages I went that route. Now that I can get a minimal neck tension with bushings I think I'll go back to using the case and (greased) bullet. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks! - nhk

mike in co
07-28-2011, 11:28 AM
ok peter
what is the number that goes with ogive oal length when you get done ???
the stoney point tool with your own case allows one to measure that magic seating depth...you have a number to go alone with it...now when you go to seat bullets you can measure loaded rounds and know you have the same length.
your mention of variations in "into the lands" is exactly why i say use the stoney point tool. measure to the lands and then adjust in and out with the seater.
and yes i agree a seater with a micrometer top is almost required.

mike in co

years ago and quickly saw the oportunity for errors to creep in so I sold it. In my mind, the only certain way to determine the actual seating depth is with an inert case, the bullet from the lot of bullets you are going to use, lite neck tension and one's rifle's bolt.

That method is so easy to do and so reliable please tell me why a person would ever want to go at it differently, please - - - -

It also helps a lot to have a seater with a micrometer top so that one can reliably push their bullets back in reliable increments.

I can pretty much tell everyone this, With normal neck tension and cranking the bullet into the lands, one has seated their bullet at least .016 and perhaps as much as .025 into the lands. From where it becomes a bit difficult to see land marks and where one can just fainty see land marks is 5 or 6 thou. So, if a person is .006 in, they are in a lot less than most people and I have found, over the years that .006 has been a magic seating depth in my 30 cal tight neck little or no freebore rifles.

So, to answer the question, no devices beyond a case and a bullet.

alinwa
07-28-2011, 11:09 PM
ok peter
what is the number that goes with ogive oal length when you get done ???


mike in co

"OK Mike"....... I don't normally get into it with you but I'm tired and pi$$y (I think this an acceptable acronym for our current crop of SUper ModeratORs)

This is a goofy question on it's face.

So elucidate

Please

explain to all us knuckledragging savages exactly why "the Sinclair number" is somehow more relevant or magical than just measuring a loaded round to the ogive....more specifically a round which has been fired in and is fitted to your rifle.....

??

al

mike in co
07-28-2011, 11:34 PM
naw al you got me wrong...
i use a fired threaded case with a stoneypoint/hornady/sinclair.......
your comment measure to the ogive......measured with what....
your early post said seated to the lands and a micro seater, no mention of how the length of the seated bullet was transfered to the seater/recorded or what...
that was my point...the sinclair/stoney ogive tool will allow one to measure to some point on the ogive, recordable and repeatable.measureable on the loaded rounds.
it sounds like we are saying the same thing...you left a couple of things out of your original post...so i was asking.
no pizzing contest with ya al...

mike in co

"OK Mike"....... I don't normally get into it with you but I'm tired and pi$$y (I think this an acceptable acronym for our current crop of SUper ModeratORs)

This is a goofy question on it's face.

So elucidate

Please

explain to all us knuckledragging savages exactly why "the Sinclair number" is somehow more relevant or magical than just measuring a loaded round to the ogive....more specifically a round which has been fired in and is fitted to your rifle.....

??

al

alinwa
07-28-2011, 11:57 PM
Ohh jeepers, I spelled it wrong!!

"OK.... I'm tired and p!$$y"........ altho one of The Supers just used it un-anacronized.......rotflmao

My details;

fired round set to exactly the 'feel' I want,(I most often use an old loose-primer reject case resized juuuust so...)

primer popped out

Neck tension (adjustable) set juuust so

measure with calipers over choice of ogive tool, I use the Sinclair 'nut' or my selection of Hornady/Redding/Jones/Sinclair or even some home-aid barrel stub gizzies

Don't need a loupe, yet, but silver sharpie is wicked for coarse measurements (the only kind I really care about anymore, half-thou's aren't meaningful to me)

Bottom line, I find a solid seat with "something" as near leade diameter as possible and write down a number and description of the "something" used for that pertickler round. (I measure a LOT of weird rounds)

I also load for people, sometimes mailing rounds for rifles I haven't seen for years......... Long distance tuning requires hid'jus note-taking or a prodigious memory. I need to have the ability to repeat from long distance. I've come back to barrels years later and found perfect repeatability.

anyways, I'm less p!zz!# now

therapeutic

LOL

al

Bob Kingsbury
07-29-2011, 09:04 AM
What the hell, it's the 50th post in this thread. My favorite tools are calipers, scotchbright and a loupe. Gotta have them all. The rest -- barrel & case & bullet aren't really *tools*, but are all I need.
I agree, and its absolutely simple