PDA

View Full Version : Grunig & Elmiger RACER World Champion Small Bore Rifles are coming to the U.S.



Albert's
06-10-2011, 07:43 PM
For Immediate Release: June 10, 2011

Albert’s Inc. is pleased to announce becoming the U.S. dealer for Grunig & Elmiger rifles and accessories for the benchrest market.

We will stock the Racer World Champion small bore rifle in the RSIII stock and Grunig & Elmiger centerfire benchrest rifles. A demo Racer World Champion rifle will be kept at the store. It will be available to be tested at Kettlefoot Rod & Gun Club and it will be taken to several upcoming matches so anyone interested will have an opportunity to experience the “state of the art” rimfire competition rifles.

More information on the Racer World Champion rifle can be found at G&E online (http://www.gruenelshop.ch/ac_home.php?language=en&sid=&lay=1&content=4).

Please direct inquires to:

Albert’s Inc. (http://www.alberts-inc.com/rimfire_benchrest.htm)
104 W. Market St.
Johnson City, TN 37604
(423) 367-8001
Marc@alberts-inc.com

Jefferson
06-10-2011, 08:49 PM
how about a ballpark price on the rimfire setup ready for the range, as we dont know exchange rates and I dont want you to be flooded with requests,



Jefferson

Albert's
06-10-2011, 10:01 PM
I am not sure about the setup for benchrest yet. The first rifle will arrive with the RSIII stock, no butt hook or plate, and no sights and is essentially a position rifle.

Based on today's exchange rate the rifle described above will retail for $8,500.

Next week I will start evaluating what is needed to make the gun useful for benchrest purposes. Grunig & Elmiger would like feedback from benchrest shooters and I encourage all shooters who test the rifle to be brutally honest about the form, fit, and function of the RACER for benchrest shooting.

Grunig & Elmiger are interested in making the necessary changes and accessories. However, it will probably be more cost effective in the short term for the necessary accessories to be made in the U.S.

I sent information to Grunig & Elmiger design engineering on the weight and configuration of various scopes and mounts used for benchrest in the U.S. They assessed the impact the optical system might have on the accuracy of the RACER and expect the effect to be negligible. That is one of the things I will test after getting the RACER to ride properly in both a one and two piece rest.

I hope to be able to give you better answers after testing has started.

Thank you for your interest.

Marc

steve b.
06-10-2011, 11:09 PM
Who's barrel are you using? I know Beliker cut a deal with Lilja ( wise move ), is G&E doing the same?

s.

Jefferson
06-10-2011, 11:23 PM
I personally thank you for your most informative answer, it is answers like that that will get you some sales,

thanks again, and can we pay you and directly import into Canada without coming to the USA first, I can get the firearms reference talbe page created in Canada so they can legally be imported as a valid entry or classification for importation purposes, as all new rifles must be

Jefferson

Albert's
06-10-2011, 11:28 PM
To the best of my knowledge, the barrel is Lilja.

I will check on what we can do for Canada.

steve b.
06-11-2011, 01:06 AM
Just noticed the 6 o'clock fp. Interesting. I love this kind of stuff.

s.

Albert's
06-21-2011, 11:42 PM
We received the Racer today.

1140611408114091140711410

Attached the barreled action to the RSIII stock with the 4 mounting screws and set the torque on the screws to 28 in*lb.

Quickly mounted a March 5-32x52 scope on a M. Werks scope sight rail using Leupold MK4 aluminum rings with both rings in front of the turrets.

Attached a M. Werks 3" fore-end benchrest plate to the accessory rail.

Placed on a Fulghum one piece rest and test fired to check positioning in the rest.

The Racer rode the rest equally well with or without the 3" benchrest plate.

Tomorrow, weather permitting I will take the Racer to the range. Over the next couple of weeks I will try different scopes, mountings, and ammunition in an effort to assess the capabilities of the Racer.

If you can come to Kettlefoot and are interested in participating in the testing, please let me know.

More to follow - Marc

earlm
06-22-2011, 08:44 AM
I'm curious will you be seeing this appear at a IR50, ARA or PSL match?

Albert's
06-22-2011, 06:09 PM
Yes, the Racer will be shot in PSL, ARA, and IR50/50. It is possible for it to be shot in an ARA match this weekend. Thanks for your interest. Marc

steve b.
06-22-2011, 06:49 PM
Keep us in the loop. Very curious about this rifle. Thanks for the pics.

s.

Albert's
06-24-2011, 01:38 AM
I have received an update on Grunig Racer deliveries.

Six (6) Grunig & Elmiger Racer Small Bore Rifles have been allocated to the United States for 2011. The rifles are due to arrive in the U.S. in November of 2011.

We have started a waiting list for the November shipment. They will be sold on a first come first serve basis. To get on the waiting list will require a deposit of 50% down. If at any time you wish to be removed from the waiting list, your deposit will be refunded in full and your place in line will be given to the next buyer.

Thanks,
Marc

tim
06-25-2011, 08:02 PM
Are there any considerations for bringing in a couple plain actions? I'm assuming most BR shooters are going to have some pretty definative preferences for barrel selection.

Albert's
06-26-2011, 01:45 AM
Barreled actions will be available sometime next year. Only six rifles for the U.S. for the remainder of this year. Demand has outstripped production. Actions only...probably not. Check out the RSIII stock. It is quite a piece of work itself. Special metal alloy and vibration tuning built in.

Thanks,
Marc

tim
06-26-2011, 11:00 AM
Barreled actions will be available sometime next year. Only six rifles for the U.S. for the remainder of this year. Demand has outstripped production. Actions only...probably not. Check out the RSIII stock. It is quite a piece of work itself. Special metal alloy and vibration tuning built in.

Thanks,
Marc

Thank you Marc. Would you have any kind of idea as to price talk on the barreled actions? Lastly an operational question, after looking at their site and the photos, may I assume the only way to load these is via the top port? I assume the cartridge carrier rises to accept a round from that port?

Albert's
06-26-2011, 04:50 PM
My best guess on a barreled action with their amazing trigger (depending on the exchange rate) will be in the $5,500 ballpark. That's only a guess.

The racer can be loaded from the top port or the right side. So far I have only loaded it from the right side due to the scope sitting over the top port. The round can be hand fed into the chamber or it can be placed on the carrier with the nose of the bullet positioned close to the breech. The thought behind the top port loading was to make the rifle easier for some of the prone and 3p shooters to load. I will post some pictures later.

tim
06-26-2011, 05:01 PM
Thanks again, it'll be interesting to see if we have a better mousetrap.

Albert's
06-26-2011, 06:20 PM
I thought you might enjoy reading the Easy Trigger Adjustment Manual.

Albert's
06-26-2011, 07:09 PM
Here is another interesting diagram showing the special "o" rings in front of and behind the point where the barrel screws into the action.

Lowey
06-28-2011, 08:00 AM
Top Loading the Racer ! Personally I think its a gimick ! I have tried to top load but it just doesn't work (with the fitting of a rear sight it becomes impossible !)! each shot needs to be put on the platform and pushed into the chamber before closing the bolt, The platform is pushed down by the bolt as it is closed so if the bullet is not started in the chamber it will jam ! they shoot out standing and well worth the look , every part of the finish and fit is perfect a real credit to G&E , the first batch have Lilja 4 groove barrels
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16403.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16405.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16416.jpg
Cheers
Lowey

Albert's
07-04-2011, 04:51 PM
Saturday, July 2nd, a 5 target ARA Club Match was held at Wilderness Road Shooting & Conservation Club. The Unlimited Class started at 10:30am with 8 contestants.

It was a clear day with only a few clouds in the sky. The temperature was in the mid 70s and the ground was still wet with the morning dew when Target 1 began. By the end of the 5th target, 2 ½ hrs later, the temperature had risen to the low 90s. The humidity was over 80% and the barometric pressure was steady. The wind was very light and switching. The top wind speed during the match was 4 mph. Most of the time, there wasn’t enough wind to move the wind flags. So it was very difficult to get a read on the condition. To make it even more difficult, as the sun got brighter the dew evaporated off the ground. The mirage was brutal.

The Racer competed in the same configuration as received from the factory with the exception of the addition of a M. Werks scope rail, Leupold MK4 rings, and a March 5-32x52 scope set on 32 power. I used the Fulghum One Piece Rest with an old style Fulghum top with an Edgewood Hunt 2 ¼” bag filled with heavy sand. The Racer tracked perfectly in the rest. The ammunition was Eley Black Box 1049fps.

The Racer won 1st place on 2 of the 5 targets and won the match with a 575 point lead over the 2nd place competitor. So far, the Racer appears to be a contender in Rimfire Benchrest shooting. I will post more information as future matches and more testing is completed.

Fred J
07-04-2011, 06:42 PM
Who was the operator?

Albert's
07-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Marc Nachman

Albert's
07-16-2011, 06:55 PM
A 5 target ARA Club match was held on July 8 at the Gold City Rifle Range in Dahlonega, GA. I decided to shoot the Grunig & Elmiger Racer head to head with my custom Bill Calfee rifle, Trebuchet. It was an evening shoot with a very light left to right wind. In fact, the wind was so light most of the time the tails on the flags barely moved making it difficult to judge the condition. After the sun went down, it was almost like shooting indoors. Doug and David Kenimer have made Gold City a fantastic place to shoot.

Trebuchet has a Turbo action, Baity 6 o’clock firing pin conversion, Bill Pippin benchrest stock and bedding, Jewell trigger, Shilen Octagon barrel, Hoehn tuner, and was built and tuned by Bill Calfee. , Since receiving Trebuchet in April 2011, Trebuchet has won first place in the Tennessee State ARA Championship, third place in the Georgia and Virginia State ARA Championships, seventh place at the PSL Lapua Brawl, and first place in numerous local club matches shooting Eley Black Box 6 machine ammunition. As reported earlier, so far the Racer has competed in and won one local club match.

To some degree it was not a fair contest since the rifles were not designed for the same purpose but Trebuchet is a fantastic benchmark to test rifles and ammunition against. I decided to shoot the Racer in 2 of the matches and Trebuchet in 3 of the matches. The first and second target I used my backup 3 machine Eley Black Box ammunition and the third, fourth, and fifth target for each gun I used my best number one 6 machine Eley Black Box ammunition.

The results are as follows.

Target Rifle Ammunition Score
1 Racer Eley Black Box 3220 1875
2 Trebuchet Eley Black Box 3220 1950
3 Racer Eley Black Box 6034 2075
4 Trebuchet Eley Black Box 6034 2400
5 Trebuchet Eley Black Box 6034 2100

The Racer performed well against Trebuchet. Similar scores were shot by both rifles on target one & two and on target 3 & 5. Target 4 was one of those rare times when the condition, ammo, and rifle all come together to shoot a great score and Trebuchet rose to the occasion.

More matches and further tests will occur over the next few weeks. Jeff from M. Werks is making a 3” benchrest fore stock plate that should automatically align parallel to the barrel in the accessory rail. This should increase the stability while not affecting the tracing in the rest. I will also take the Racer out of the RSIII stock and put it in a McMillan Edge 2013 fiberglass benchrest stock and an Anschutz 2013 walnut benchrest stock to evaluate the Racer’s performance in a factory and custom benchrest stock.

Albert's
07-20-2011, 12:09 PM
Bad news. The Racer barreled action will not fit in my Anschutz 2013 factory benchrest stock. The screw footprint and everything else is the same but the rear of the Racer action is different than the 2013 action. If the Anschutz factory 2013 benchrest stock was routed it would fit but I don't want to wreck a new Anschutz factory 2013 benchrest stock. Anyone have a suggestion that doesn't require building a custom stock or routing my factory benchrest stock?

Thanks,
Marc

Fred J
07-20-2011, 01:00 PM
A new stock is in order. Don't screw up the 2013 stock, as it will cost you more to replace it when you want to put your 2013 action back in it.

Lowey
07-22-2011, 02:41 AM
Albert's
Bad news. The Racer barreled action will not fit in my Anschutz 2013 factory benchrest stock. The screw footprint and everything else is the same but the rear of the Racer action is different than the 2013 action. If the Anschutz factory 2013 benchrest stock was routed it would fit but I don't want to wreck a new Anschutz factory 2013 benchrest stock. Anyone have a suggestion that doesn't require building a custom stock or routing my factory benchrest stock?

Thanks,
Marc

Hi Marc, same as my 2013 prone stock. it takes a little more than just routing out the rear of the stock, the racer is wider at the base than the 2013 and the trigger sits further back and lower than the 2013, the racer trigger blade also sits to the side and needs to be centred to work in the 2013 wood stock

before cutting out the rear
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16361.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16366.jpg

after cutting out the rear, note a bit also needs to be cleared to fit the bolt safety just infront of the handle, the top of the trigger guard also needs to be removed

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16373.jpg

the trigger blade hanger I made

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16394.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm19/lowey_2008/Racer/SDC16393.jpg

Hope these help if you decide to go ahead with fitting into the 2013 stock ? The 2013 can still be used in this stock

Cheers
Lowey

Albert's
07-22-2011, 09:06 AM
Thanks for your help, Lowey. Great looking stock work and the pictures really help. I hope to purchase a used Anscuhtz 2013 Benchrest stock and have the same work done soon. Thanks again. Marc

Albert's
09-11-2011, 12:29 PM
The Racer has not seen much action lately because I could not get to track properly in the Fulghum one piece rest and I have been trying to find a suitable custom benchrest stock.

The MWerks fore plate I was using has two lugs that fit into the accessory rail. With two lugs and a little wiggle room, I was not able to align the plate parallel with the barrel. So when the Racer was moved in the rest the point of aim changed in the cross hairs.

I contacted Jeff at MWerks and discussed the problem. Jeff suggested making a full length single lug fitted tightly in the accessory rail. I received the single lug rail and mounted it on the Racer. This eliminated the wiggle room and the alignment problems. Now the point of aim in the cross hairs remains rock steady. To date no other changes have been made to the Racer except the addition of the fore plate and a scope. It is still as received from the factory.

I zeroed the March 5 – 32x52 scope and headed to Kettlefoot Rod & Gun Club to give the Racer a try in the ARA Unlimited 3 target match on Saturday, September 10. This is the first complete match the Racer has competed in since the testing began.

It was foggy and in the upper 50s at the range with very light variable left to right winds. The humidity was over 80%. The first match of the morning, at 10am, was an ARA Sporter 3 target match. About noon the Racer and the other ARA Unlimited guns were brought to the line. By then the fog had burned off, the temperature was in the middle 70s, and the humidity had fallen to below 60%. The wind had picked up to 2 – 10 mph with an average around 4 mph and had become very switchy predominantly right to left winds.

During the match, 30% of the shots were taken with a point of aim between the dot and the 50 ring, 60% of the shots were taken between the 50 and the 25 ring, and 10% of the shots were taken outside the 10 ring in the white area of the target.

I had chosen an exceptional lot of Eley Team ammunition to shoot because it has performed well in Trebuchet, a RB/LP Turbo with a Shilen Octagon Barrel, Jewell Trigger, Pippin Stock, Baity 6 o'clock conversion, smithed by Bill Calfee. The Eley Team did well in Racer too.

There were 10 great competitors for the match. The Racer won the match and also won 2 of the 3 targets with scores of 2025, 2035, and 2175. The agg was 2078.33. This was a great first match with strong competitors in difficult conditions.

It looks like the addition of the MWerks single lug fore plate has helped the Racer become a serious rimfire benchrest competitor right out of the box.

Albert's
01-19-2012, 10:59 PM
The Racer is just back from Master Class Stocks with a custom made full on benchrest stock. Thanks Alex, for an outstanding job.

Testing begins tomorrow. I can't wait.:D

1215512156

Joe Friedrich
01-19-2012, 11:29 PM
Beautiful looking rifle, like the rest also.

Good luck with the testing.

Albert's
01-20-2012, 08:53 AM
I will also be comparing the racer tuner with a Hoehn tuner. Lynwood Harrell made one for me last month. The muzzle of the Racer is stepped down to 20mm and a stock Hoehn would have been too large. I hope to have done a comparison of the stocks and tuners by the PSL.

Albert's
01-24-2012, 09:45 AM
Racer in Master Class benchrest stock with a Hoehn tuner. Test targets were shot at 50 feet to facilitate adjusting the tuner. The target in the picture is the final tuning test target. Five (5) shots at 50'. Today we go to 50 yards.

Albert's
01-26-2012, 09:20 PM
The weather cooperated this week and I got an opportunity to test the Benchrest Racer outdoor.

Tuesday the wind speeds ranging from 4 to 14 mph and rapid switches. It was really too windy to conduct a meaningful test but it was great fun all the same.

Wednesday was deceptively better with very calm conditions. In fact it was so calm toward the end of the day that only very slight movement in the tails of the wind flags could be detected. To compound the situation, the temperature dropped to as the sun went behind the mountain. The temperature was 53 degrees, the humidity was 75%, and the barometric pressure was steady at 29.95. The air seemed thick and the bullet movement was greater than the tails of the wind flags indicated. Once all the playing around with ammo, rests, etc. was over and before it got dark, I settled down to see what the Benchrest Racer could do.

The ARA Scoring Program confirmed that the target score was a 2250. I am looking forward to some warm indoor shooting over the next few weeks.

HuskerP7M8
01-27-2012, 10:11 AM
Marc,

It was a little difficult to work with a low resolution image to plot the shots on your target, but I must have come pretty close because my calculated score matched the ARA Scoring Program’s score of 2250.
The screenshot below of Jeff Block’s TDS software’s “Composite Group Display” shows how I plotted the shots and also figured the group’s offset from the center of the bull.
If you’ve also calculated the group offset, can you tell me how close I am to the ARA’s Scoring Program’s offset?
Because of the image I used, I’m sure I won’t be able to match the numbers exactly but I’m curious about how close I am.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Marc%20BRC/sTDS.jpg

If, and it’s a big if, I am close….then by moving the mathematical center of your group right 0.020” and up 0.018” results in an ARA score of 2350.
The screenshot from my spreadsheet below shows the adjusted POI and how it would be scored a 2350.
What I’m trying to point out is that it becomes a very tricky proposition to quantify the accuracy of a rifle by using the scores it produces on any of the BR targets in popular use.
Dan Killough occasionally sends me the actual point data from the PSL and ARA National Indoor Championships and most shooters would be shocked at how difficult it is to match POA/POI and how much the scores can change with only a few thou of movement of the group.

Landy

BTW, Jeffrey Madison and I had a chance to fondle the G & E at Camp Perry this year and it’s an amazing piece of workmanship. We couldn’t talk the Rep into letting me take it home for testing though. LOL

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Marc%20BRC/sScore.jpg

Albert's
01-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Hi Landy,

Sorry for the low resolution on the target files. Here is the actual plot from Jeff's TDS program. I hope this is helpful.

Thanks,
Marc

HuskerP7M8
01-27-2012, 06:28 PM
Thanks Marc and there’s no need to be sorry about the target because I might be the only person on the face of the planet who would wish for a higher resolution.

It appears the Racer may be competitive and you’ve went to one Hell of a lot of work to make it so. I’m looking forward to seeing how the two of you do indoors.

Thanks again,
Landy

pfiori
01-28-2012, 05:03 PM
Marc,

I would like to know how the composite groups that the rifle is producing now compare to the one that was shot at the factory?

Thanks,
Pete

Albert's
01-29-2012, 02:34 PM
Pete, Here is the factory test target that came with the rifle. Marc

Az_Speed
07-30-2012, 05:26 PM
Any more testing done with this rifle?

Albert's
07-30-2012, 09:01 PM
The testing proved the G&E Racer WCR as a definite benchrest contender. The rifle is back in the 3P stock and is available for sale to a 3P shooter for $7,500.

The G&E XRacer, a no frills Racer WCR, came out this year. G&E XRacer barreled action can be fitted with a Lilja or Shilen Octagon barrel from the factory for about $3,200 (depending on exchange rate at the time of order).

I have two new G&E XRacer barreled actions with a factory installed 24" Shilen Octagon barrel and the factory trigger set to the lightest possible single stage trigger pull on order. They should be in by mid September. One will be installed in the red Master Class stock I used for testing the Racer WCR with and the other will be sent to Master Class to be fitted in another benchrest stock to make a 10.5 class rifle. A Hoehn tuner will be fitted to each rifle.

Then the testing will begin again. These will be dedicated benchrest rifles. Not 3P rifles forced into a benchrest role. I fully expect these rifles to be dot killers!!!

Thanks for your interest in G&E Rifles,

Marc

Az_Speed
08-01-2012, 07:19 PM
PM sent.

Pete Wass
10-02-2012, 12:32 AM
Very Cool Project Marc, Was nice meeting you this past weekend. Look forward to seeing your project continue. Look forward to seeing you again sometime. Great display of "weather Reading" the past weekend, impressive, to say the least..

Pete

Albert's
10-02-2012, 10:22 AM
Thanks Pete. It was great sharing a bench with you.

The first two G&E XRacer Barreled Actions have arrived. The XRacer is a stripped down version of the Racer WCR (better suited to benchrest applications). That reduced the cost from around $4,300 for a Racer WCR barreled action to around $3,200 for a XRacer barreled action.

These two have 24" factory installed Shilen Octagon barrels and the triggers have been setup at the factory to be able to be adjusted to less than 50g (the standard 3p trigger won't adjust to less than 50g). One will be setup with a Hoehn tuner and a Master Class benchrest stock this week.

I will post the factory test targets later today and future test targets as testing progresses. The XRacer will be available for demo at the upcoming ARA Indoor Nationals at the Rocky River Barn on December 1st & 2nd.

Marc

Albert's
10-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Here are the factory targets. 10 shots @ 50m No tuner. I expect this to get better with the addition of a Hoehn tuner. Marc

Fred J
10-02-2012, 07:49 PM
Doubt a tuner will improve.

analretentive
05-26-2013, 03:16 PM
Marc, were you at the Barn in December? If so, I talked to you briefly. I was the dumbass shooting off sandbags....front, and rear....finished last.

I saw you, or your rep talking to a stocker about how to bed the action. What did you come up with for bedding, and what have your later tests shown about the adaption to BR. If I have missed the updates on another thread, point me the right way.

Any chance they'd make it in a left port?

Thank you for your contributions to this forum, and response. Good afternoon.

Gerry

kevinnevius
05-27-2013, 09:22 AM
Doubt a tuner will improve.

Hi Fred:

I have had a Racer for over a year now, and have had a chance to do some extensive testing with it.

They do respond very well to the use of a tuner (I am using a Hoehn now), and are an exceptional system. An extension tube system (with a tuner) is shown on their website, and will be offered soon - if it isn't here already.

All in all, very pleased with this rifle!

kev