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View Full Version : Yet another Chargemaster test:



Pete Wass
06-03-2011, 10:28 PM
I decided to load 10 more rounds for Sunday's match this evening so thought I would take note of the actual weight of the charges my Chargemaster was throwing.

A couple of weeks ago I checked a few thrown charges and found that my Chargemaster was actually throwing an extra.1g more than the scale and mechanism stated. I weighed the charges with my Aculab scale which weighs to the .01.

For the past couple of loading sessions I have used the Chargmaster to extrude a slightly lighter charge and trickled up to the exct weight I wanted. Yes, it's slow but I'm retired, live alone most of the time and have nothing better to do than load and listen to Bluegrass on the tv (XM radio I think)

Ok, here's what I found for 10 extrusions:

Extruded weight - Autual weight

32.9 - 32.94
32.9 - 32,94
33.2 - 33.22
32.9 - 32.96
32.9 - 32,88
32.9 - 32.89
33.1 - 33.1
32.9 - 33.02
32.9 - 32.79
33.0 - 32.96
33.0 - 33.02

SOOOOO, my Chargemaster isn't as exact as I would like it to be :( BUT, it still is a lot better than I have ever been able to throw with any measure I have owned, including the Upper End measures. Obviously any charges that end up weighing more than one wants can simply be dumped back into the Hopper.

mike in co
06-03-2011, 11:06 PM
...ok i guess i missed that the intended weight is not necessarily the weight in the first column......i thought you were moving the weight..but makes no sense if you were loading...my bad.....so the rest no longer applies...no not good....... a 0.3 spread is no better than a good beam scale....and is about what teh better guys with throwers do with n133..tho not all.
its nice you have the acculab....
thanks
mike in co

Dick Grosbier
06-03-2011, 11:18 PM
SOOOOO, my Chargemaster isn't as exact as I would like it to be :

Really Pete?
Who cares? All that really matters is consistency. The way I see it if you have a load that shoots good in your rifle and it is say .2 gr heavier than what is indicated what does it matter as long as it is consistent and you keep using the same Chargemaster to load with?

Dick

DaveT
06-03-2011, 11:21 PM
Pete,
That's interesting data, but I bet it's still more accurate then a 18th century horse and buggy technology beam scale, wouldn't you think? I'm just saying....
Dave T

alinwa
06-03-2011, 11:40 PM
I decided to load 10 more rounds for Sunday's match this evening so thought I would take note of the actual weight of the charges my Chargemaster was throwing.

A couple of weeks ago I checked a few thrown charges and found that my Chargemaster was actually throwing an extra.1g more than the scale and mechanism stated. I weighed the charges with my Aculab scale which weighs to the .01.

For the past couple of loading sessions I have used the Chargmaster to extrude a slightly lighter charge and trickled up to the exct weight I wanted. Yes, it's slow but I'm retired, live alone most of the time and have nothing better to do than load and listen to Bluegrass on the tv (XM radio I think)

Ok, here's what I found for 10 extrusions:

Extruded weight - Autual weight

32.9 - 32.94
32.9 - 32,94
33.2 - 33.22
32.9 - 32.96
32.9 - 32,88
32.9 - 32.89
33.1 - 33.1
32.9 - 33.02
32.9 - 32.79
33.0 - 32.96
33.0 - 33.02

SOOOOO, my Chargemaster isn't as exact as I would like it to be :( BUT, it still is a lot better than I have ever been able to throw with any measure I have owned, including the Upper End measures. Obviously any charges that end up weighing more than one wants can simply be dumped back into the Hopper.



Well........ I concur.

Thanks Pete

:)


al

Pete Wass
06-04-2011, 12:44 AM
Really Pete?
Who cares? All that really matters is consistency. The way I see it if you have a load that shoots good in your rifle and it is say .2 gr heavier than what is indicated what does it matter as long as it is consistent and you keep using the same Chargemaster to load with?

Dick

I think .2 matters a whoe lot more than you seem to. If it didn't matter why do some folks have better results with 33.7 than, say, 33.5? It is impossible to make ammo that is too good but it is real easy to make ammo that isn't really good enough.

Pete Wass
06-04-2011, 12:46 AM
One can't get a scale that is too good but it is easy enough to get all kinds that aren't very good at all.

alinwa
06-04-2011, 01:06 AM
Hey Pete.... one thing the CM does do well is to throw consistently day-to-day.


I did a series of testing where for two yrs I kept track of my throws by weight. Not only do throwers vary by .XX grains on a given string............. they vary by X.XX over time.

al

DSM
06-04-2011, 01:16 AM
Pete, is your CM outfitted with a McDonald's straw?

alinwa
06-04-2011, 01:44 AM
pshaww on the straw, and on all the other "mod's" like speeding up the ticker.

Default is the best there is




IMO





:)





al

DSM
06-04-2011, 02:40 AM
pshaww on the straw, and on all the other "mod's" like speeding up the ticker.

Default is the best there is




IMO





:)





al
For me, I find the straw mod to throw way more consistent and accurate charges.

alinwa
06-04-2011, 03:41 AM
I think the various modifications can each work better depending on exactly what you're throwing. I found the straw to work well with ball powder but it threw horrendous overcharges with long stick.....

For long stick I ran a twisted hairpin back up into the tube.

At one time I hade 7 different attachments setting by the CM. One day they all went in the garbage. :)

Last 6mo I'm working on getting down to only 3-4 powders on the shelf instead of twenty......... K.I.S.S........It's hard to safely store 200lb of powder in various jugs.

al

JerrySharrett
06-04-2011, 06:52 AM
Did you let the scale warm up for at least a time then calibrate it with the weights included?

milanuk
06-04-2011, 11:25 AM
al,

Funny, I load a fair number of rounds every year w/ the Chargemaster, and mine still wears the Mickey Dee straw and has the programming tweaked. Granted, 99% of my powder use is Varget, RE-15, N150 and H4350 - 'short cut' medium burn rate powders. Very occasionally mine will over throw by 0.1gn - but it indicates it pretty reliably.

For my LR loads things get weighed again on a lab scale accurate to +/- 0.01gn (reads to 0.005)... based on observing a *lot* of charges (couple thousand) I'd say mine dispenses +/- 0.1gn 95% of the time, and probably +/- 0.12-0.13gn the remainder of the time.

Monte

Larry Elliott
06-04-2011, 07:44 PM
Jerry makes a very good point. High end electronic laboratory scales are supposed to be "warmed up" for at least half an hour before use, and are generally left on all the time. Worked in an analytical lab many years, and accuracy was required.

Considering how much other stuff is left plugged in and on all the time the Chargemaster can't make a lot of difference in the electric bill.

Pete Wass
06-04-2011, 08:42 PM
Pete, is your CM outfitted with a McDonald's straw?

Yes but I fid it to not be very effective

Pete Wass
06-04-2011, 08:44 PM
Did you let the scale warm up for at least a time then calibrate it with the weights included?

Yes, I did. I use the CM weight on both scales and each had been on over 30 minutes

Pete Wass
06-04-2011, 08:47 PM
Jerry makes a very good point. High end electronic laboratory scales are supposed to be "warmed up" for at least half an hour before use, and are generally left on all the time. Worked in an analytical lab many years, and accuracy was required.

Considering how much other stuff is left plugged in and on all the time the Chargemaster can't make a lot of difference in the electric bill.

I generally leave the Chargemaster on all the time but lately have wondered if that is a good thing so have shut it off when not using it. I always let it warm up before I use it though. The instructions with the AcuLab say 20 minutes warmup I think I recall but it is easy to tell when it ain't warmed up properly, wanders quite a bit.

B.Johnson
06-04-2011, 10:45 PM
If you can't measure the difference on the target! You are wasting your time, or worrying over nothing.

Pete Wass
06-06-2011, 08:26 PM
If you can't measure the difference on the target! You are wasting your time, or worrying over nothing.

Well, I don't know about you but I have always been able to measure the difference on the targets I have shot when testing. If one goes to a match throwing charges and loading bullets randomly out of the box they are lucky when they win.

Octopus
06-07-2011, 10:10 AM
Peter,

Are you still running your CM in the faster mode?


Octopus

Randy Jarvais
06-07-2011, 04:10 PM
Pete, some are not lucky, just better wind flag readers. Determining a condition that is consistent is key. Some never find one all day long, while others "discover" one in match one and either rediscover it or a new one each match. Randy J.

Greg Fowl
06-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Pete-I'm glad you like that gadget. However, I have an old(20 yrs) Redding BR-2. that eguals that in half the time. I just reloaded about 400 rounds for a PD shoot. I check every 10-20 rds. I loaded 40 in a row and every 10 rd check was on the money!!!!! Those things might be "wonderful" but I reloaded hunting loads for years with Lee loader scoops and never missed game. How did Dan'l Boone survive? I guess all the electronic wondermints out there just don't impress me. V/R Greg

Pete Wass
06-07-2011, 09:48 PM
Peter,

Are you still running your CM in the faster mode?


Octopus

Yes Jon,

I have found the faster mode gives way more over-charges. I have gone to setting a lower charge and trickling up by fingers- works well. I have done that for years with other scales.

Pete Wass
06-07-2011, 09:57 PM
Pete-I'm glad you like that gadget. However, I have an old(20 yrs) Redding BR-2. that eguals that in half the time. I just reloaded about 400 rounds for a PD shoot. I check every 10-20 rds. I loaded 40 in a row and every 10 rd check was on the money!!!!! Those things might be "wonderful" but I reloaded hunting loads for years with Lee loader scoops and never missed game. How did Dan'l Boone survive? I guess all the electronic wondermints out there just don't impress me. V/R Greg

Greg, as I'm sure you know, there is a heck of a difference between hitting at least 23 - 1/16" dots and even a lowly Prapie Dog. For instance, there is a fellow who pracices with his "High Power" rifle @ our club. I watched hm shoot one evening and he had about 2" of verticle in his group @ 200 yds. I mentioned it and he said, Heck, that good enough for what I am doing. It's all a matter of degrees. I ranted about the accuracy of the Lee $20. powder measure years ago along with the late Frank Murphy. Yes, they are as accurate as any other measure but they , in reality, aren't accurate at all. I can appreciate how you feel but for some folks, good enough won't ever be good enough.

mike in co
06-07-2011, 10:50 PM
right.........
what did you check it with ???
a beam scale the is plus or minus .1 on a good day ???
thats what this thread is about...not accepting plus or minus .1......................
not accepting what has been considered "br acceptable"..... in the past..things change...and this is a place for improvement..an opportunity to move ahead.
mike in co

Pete-I'm glad you like that gadget. However, I have an old(20 yrs) Redding BR-2. that eguals that in half the time. I just reloaded about 400 rounds for a PD shoot. I check every 10-20 rds. I loaded 40 in a row and every 10 rd check was on the money!!!!! Those things might be "wonderful" but I reloaded hunting loads for years with Lee loader scoops and never missed game. How did Dan'l Boone survive? I guess all the electronic wondermints out there just don't impress me. V/R Greg

Pete Wass
06-07-2011, 11:19 PM
Pete, some are not lucky, just better wind flag readers. Determining a condition that is consistent is key. Some never find one all day long, while others "discover" one in match one and either rediscover it or a new one each match. Randy J.

Randy, you are right about that but the best wind reader with ammo that shoots, at best, .500 doesn't have much of a chance, regardless of how well they read the wind.

Before I finish with Benchrest I would like to be the Tuner for a real good shooter just to see if a great shooter with equipment and Ammo as good as it can be could excel or at least do better. In most racing, the Pit Crew are a very big part of the effort. I think this situation may exist in some of the Shooting Sports but I don't think we see much of it.

How much better would a real good shooter do if they never had to be concerned about their rifle or ammo, it would simply be there? I know more then one guy who tunes at the matches because he has no time or inclination to do otherwsie. How good a shooter is he, really, fooling around like that? How many exes did he give up with a wrong seating depth or thrown charges?