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308sako
05-13-2011, 05:42 PM
I understand that the bore may have less friction but what other observations regarding these barrels have been noted?

I am just beginning with my first one and am seeing excellent accuracy and then it stops, and then a few more rounds and it returns... like in and out of a node. Velocities have been very consistent over the Oehler 35P when this has occured.

Any special cleaning methods employed.. i normally don't until accuracy falls off, but with this barrel, there seems to be nothing to clean out.

brian roberts
05-13-2011, 08:48 PM
You might send a PM to Butch Lambert, he had quite a bit of experience with one, until it was taken off his hands somehow.

He has had another done and has just started working with it, he'd be able to tell you all about it.

(He doesn't talk about it, he tries it out.)

alinwa
05-14-2011, 12:34 AM
My guess is that you're flirting with the edge of a node.

what is your avatar?

al

308sako
05-15-2011, 10:45 PM
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/home_004.jpg


I cropped a picture of my trophy room from years ago

alinwa
05-15-2011, 11:10 PM
LOL!!

al

Butch Lambert
05-15-2011, 11:49 PM
Mine take about a half grain more powder in my PPC. Haven't shot my 30BR yet. I clean after every 2 groups instead of each group. Never even thought of going further. They are easy to clean.
Butch

308sako
05-17-2011, 01:59 AM
Butch, This 1st barrel is for an AR and I have already put 65 rounds down it without a trace of fouling in one session. Two patches and a smug of carbon came forth. My second barrel in the works is a 6.5/284, and that will see a similar amount of fluid attention.

I am assuming therefore that all other observations are like untreated barrels, except the amount of powder to achieve the same velocity/accuracy?

Thanks for the response

Dave

Ken Worth
05-17-2011, 09:19 AM
Mine take about a half grain more powder in my PPC. Haven't shot my 30BR yet. I clean after every 2 groups instead of each group. Never even thought of going further. They are easy to clean.
Butch
Is the Joel Kendrick product?
Tks

dennisinaz
05-17-2011, 10:53 PM
I have had three barrels nitrided this year. My main rifle, a 6.5-284 took quite a bit to get clean after the first outing but cleans up decent now. Another, a 7-300 WBY, cleaned up pretty good the first time out. It only had one round through it, the 6.5-284 had about 40 before I had it treated. Haven't shot the 300 WBY yet, just barely got it back from being Cerakoted. The ding-dong painter sand-blasted the black coating off before he coated it black...

alinwa
05-18-2011, 01:38 AM
I have had three barrels nitrided this year. My main rifle, a 6.5-284 took quite a bit to get clean after the first outing but cleans up decent now. Another, a 7-300 WBY, cleaned up pretty good the first time out. It only had one round through it, the 6.5-284 had about 40 before I had it treated. Haven't shot the 300 WBY yet, just barely got it back from being Cerakoted. The ding-dong painter sand-blasted the black coating off before he coated it black...

ding-dong painter? Would paint stick to nitrided steel?

BTW, If this stuff is so hard how did he get it off evenly without etching the substrate?

al

steve b.
05-18-2011, 12:41 PM
I was wondering thast myself. The Nitride coatings that H&M metal did for my pistols is super tough, I had to use a carbide tool to scratch it. HHS doesn't touch it.

I'm almost ready to send them a 22-250 AI barrel. Im curious how it will handle the round.

s.

Vern
05-18-2011, 08:21 PM
What is the cost or average cost to nitride a barrel?
Whats the normal lead time?

skeetlee
05-18-2011, 08:42 PM
Has anyone ever had an action treated with this process? Would there be anything to gain by doing so? I have a BAT 3 Lug that i hand polished and to be real honest, i wish i had never done it. it shows every little smudge. I think the black coloring you get with the nitride treatment would look nice? I dont want to spend the money to have this done though if there isnt any real gain other than appearance. Please advise. Lee

Butch Lambert
05-18-2011, 08:54 PM
Joel Kendrick's company Mimi Trutec I believe it only does it on a quantity basis now. A Georgia gunsmith sends them a lot and I was told he gets $60. Dennis's gunsmith could have bead blasted the barrel or you can spin it in the lathe and take the black off with emery paper. The hardness is below the black.

BountyHunter
05-18-2011, 10:23 PM
Joel said they they are going thru a FFL dealer now. He is charging $75 and shipping. I have two there now.

BH

max.burgess
05-24-2011, 02:55 AM
Butch
Whats the difrence between Melonite and Black Nitride ? Do you nead to have a barrel treated with both ?
Thanks Max

Butch Lambert
05-24-2011, 06:17 PM
Max,
The best thing for you to do is run a search on the forum on melonite qpq. It is black and is a form of case hardening. Regular nitried takes too much heat and may remove the barrels heat treat.
Butch

DSM
05-24-2011, 06:36 PM
Can you do the process on a barrel that has about 300 rounds out of it?

brian roberts
05-24-2011, 10:07 PM
with a borescope, to see how much erosion or "alligatoring" there is forward of the chamber.

Since this is a form of hardening, it might not make sense to do it
under those conditions....:eek:

steve b.
05-24-2011, 10:42 PM
I had a Anschutz 1411 rimfire action done by H&M Metal Processing, and it came out excellent.. Slick and satin finish. Here is a Model 41 they did for me.

Before:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/steveb1/Phaseone.jpg

After:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/steveb1/phase3.jpg

I've also sent them a stack of various rimfire parts, and they have been turning out great. Gonna get the .22-250 AI barrel to them soon, along with the action and parts of the bolt.

H&M has been great to work with so far. Give them a call for a quote.

http://www.blacknitride.com/

s.

alinwa
05-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Whoever did your polish job is good.

al

steve b.
05-25-2011, 01:44 PM
I did the work, tried not to screw up the lines, but I can see a few mistakes. Thanks anyhow. Here it is as I was working it down. You can see soem parts I missed on the frame, but most of those are covered by the grips.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/steveb1/phase2.jpg

Here are the pieces when i got them back:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/steveb1/Blacknitride.jpg

I think H&M does great work, and I'm finishing up a test on the stuff now, which I will run in PS in a few months.

Pete Wass
05-25-2011, 08:09 PM
I had a 3--284X1.650 Nitrided a couple of years ago now. I had to add .5g of powder to get back "on the Node" but think a faster powder may now be in order. To that end I am going to try a couple in the next few days. Perhaps this would open the door for a PPC to slide up a notch in powder speed, like N-130 or H-4198 or Re-7 or that nice Norma offering.

Butch Lambert
05-25-2011, 10:34 PM
Just talked to Joel Kendrick of Mimi Trutec. They are back taking barrels and parts one at a time. No more lots or dealers only. I am at the Super Shoot and am not on the net except a little in the evening.
Butch

308sako
07-28-2011, 04:46 PM
Well, I'm at over 900 rounds down this tube and cannot get the accuracy out of it which I expected. All too often the barrel apparently just throws a shot, which absolutely should not have been dropped. Those that do group cluster tightly, and several powders and bullets have been tested in very small powder intervals, seeking the nodes.

The barrel does clean easily, that's about all I got for the money and the waiting time.

Butch Lambert
07-28-2011, 04:57 PM
So you had an excellent barrel and it turned to $h!t after melonite?
Butch

308sako
07-30-2011, 01:45 AM
It would appear to be the case, though frankly I can't see how that could be. Barrel is super smooth doesn't foul, but it just will not group or be consistent. I tried TAC today and chronographed a ladder test right through the best node I have found, and there was no repeat ability found what so ever. It is going to be stripped down and rebuilt on a different receiver and we shall see if anything turns up in the process. Large volume of ammunition has shown me what a 1 MOA rifle or worse can be like to shoot... stressful!

Appreciate the comments