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mshelton
04-22-2011, 07:26 PM
Hello,

I'm not new to shooting but new to benchrest, having recently purchased a used ppc that belonged to a benchrest shooter that passed away.

Starting to work up a load range, weighing loads currently and plan to buy a volume measure but I'm trying to take small financial steps.

My question is that in reading some of the match results I'm reading that some shooters are loading up to (sometimes exceeding) 30g of VV133. So far I've worked up to 27.8g of VV133, this is under a 69g FB bullet and that amount of powder is slightly above the neck junction in my Lapua 220 brass. How do you fit that amount (30.0ish) into the PPC case?

I'm not wanting to go straight to a hot load but I'm curious as to how get that much into a case.

GerryM
04-22-2011, 08:03 PM
The 30 gr is a tad warm You have to remember that that load is in a fireformed case also.
When I fireform I usually fill the case to the bottom of the neck with The 133.
After that i can get 29 to 29.5 grs in the case. If I had to go to 30 with a slow lot of powder....
Then I would use a long drop tube. Remember 30 grs is not for everyone.

mike in co
04-22-2011, 09:02 PM
do not be in a rush to buy a volume powder measure. weight is much better, tho harder to do at most ranges. most do not preload for short range, but reuse a small lot of brass for the match. as was mentioned...case volume is all about slow long drop of the powder.
work up a load with an accurate scale and see if you can duplicate it with a volume thrower....not....n133 is not an consistantly thrown powder...like plus or minus 0.2 with an occassional .3 thrown in.
this is all probably wasted info as you are starting down the lemming path......don't be a follower.

mike in co

Boyd Allen
04-22-2011, 09:39 PM
A long drop tube is only part of the program. You need a transparent drop tube, and a long one does help, but a big part of if is the speed with which the powder is dispensed into the case. Approach the point where the powder will start to drop down the tube carefully, and with slow handle motion. As soon as you see powder granules, reverse the handle a short amount, just enough to stop the flow, no more. Then do it over again, several more times, until all of the charge is in the case. You may be surprised how much lower the powder is in the case as compared with a quick drop, even with a long tube. Others will tell you to tilt the case slightly and rotate it slowly as it is filled, this in addition to the other steps. The keys are patience and practice.

TedH
04-22-2011, 10:47 PM
Just remember when you fire form your 220 russian to 6PPC you will gain some volume. Don't use that much for fire forming.
Ted

mshelton
04-22-2011, 11:06 PM
I appreciate the responses, I'm using fire formed cases that came with the rifle, from what I can tell they have been fired quite a lot, still in good shape but well used.

My seated bullets only go about 2mm deep into the neck (this is a very slight jam into the lands, .005ish.

Mike, what other powders would you suggest, I've only just started working with the rifle and have less than 40 rounds through it. From messing with other rifles I have h322, aa2015, benchmark, 8208xbr, reloader 10x, 4198 and varget though I'm thinking the last 2 may be on the slow side.

Like I said, I'm new to this, I've gotten a few good groups so far (3 shot) couple 0s and couple 1s but that was dead calm conditions, just trying to learn now through trial and error and asking questions.

thanks

mike in co
04-23-2011, 01:30 AM
of what is on the market...do a search for milsurplus 8208....try here
http://hi-techammo.com/
it appears the current batch maybe working well....

.

Mike, what other powders would you suggest, .

thanks

HovisKM
04-23-2011, 09:23 AM
Mike,

What bullet are you using. If your only getting 2mm in the neck, either your using a pointy bullet with a long freebore or the barrel has more than 40rds. Since we americans notice the use of the metric system, Mike, where are you from, that might help on the powder selection.

Hovis

mike in co
04-23-2011, 10:37 AM
hovis...
he said HE had 40 rounds thru it and he bought it as a USED br gun.....


Mike,

What bullet are you using. If your only getting 2mm in the neck, either your using a pointy bullet with a long freebore or the barrel has more than 40rds. Since we americans notice the use of the metric system, Mike, where are you from, that might help on the powder selection.

Hovis

HovisKM
04-23-2011, 11:44 AM
Mike in co,
that's true but you can buy used guns with new barrels. I've sold them that way and others have to. It's a question on info to the thread starter just like where does he live.

Hovis

mshelton
04-23-2011, 05:51 PM
No worries, I live in Virginia, the barrels (14 and 15 twists) have about 500 rounds each through them, the bullets I'm using are Spencer 69g 7 1/2 ogive.

After looking at it, the seating depth is closer to 4mm than 2. To the naked eye the start of the lands are still sharp and crisp, though I don't know how much can be seen that way.

HovisKM
04-24-2011, 12:19 AM
mshelton,

That sounds a lot better. Buy some 8208 from hitech to try out. It will like that or V133. Give them barrels a good scrub with JB bore paste or Isso. You want to make sure your not going to start out with carbon fouling already in the bore/throat.

Hovis

Boyd Allen
04-24-2011, 10:54 AM
Although i would never argue with the recommendation to use 133 ( I use it myself.) I would point out that there there is at least one, recently shot aggregate record (NBRSA) and another that I believe is pending, that were shot with something other than 133, and I believe that a fellow named Boyer has done pretty well, shooting T powder, which is of course one particular lot of surplus 8208. I don't know it for sure, but I would think that the records that he still holds were shot with T. The advice to go to a match to learn how things are done is always good. I find the original poster's use of metric units interesting, but for purposes of the measurements that are common to our sport, millimeters are a bit too coarse, and require most readers to convert to inch equivalents.

KEITH MYERS
04-24-2011, 03:41 PM
It does not matter what kind of powder Boyer is using. There is a major component that he uses to win that no one can buy anywhere. Talent!

jackie schmidt
04-24-2011, 04:37 PM
Man, ain't it the truth, Keith. Remember when has ran out of "T", and many declared is reign over. Yeh, took him about a week to figure 133 out.

As for the originol question as to how, and maybe why, shooters use 30+ grns of 133. The main reason is that is where many find the best agging capability. Vic Smith just won the Crawfish Two Gun shooting 30.4+ grns behind Bruno 00's for the entire week end.

As to how, and 8 inch drop tube and slow trickle will get the job done........jackie

KEITH MYERS
04-24-2011, 04:40 PM
A long drop tube and a slow trickle works also for the 30br. Right Jackie?

Vern
04-24-2011, 09:02 PM
:eek:
In my last barrel I was shooting 30.5 grains of 133 2009.
The long tube was good but I needed just a little more.
Jerry Hensler sells a vibrator he makes for the ppc case.
Worked good for me.

mshelton
04-25-2011, 08:02 AM
Thanks again guys, I'll look into a drop tube as I'm sure at some point I'll want to try some hotter loads, sorry for the mm reference but that's just what pops in my head for rough estimates under 1/2 inch.

I'm hoping to shoot in a match within the next few weeks and look forward to hopefully learning a lot from that.

Fergus Bailey
04-25-2011, 04:22 PM
In my last barrel I was shooting 30.5 grains of 133 2009.


Hi Vern

Sorry to hijack the thread, but that raises some questions.

Just wondering what life you are getting from your brass with that sort of load? Is it a yardage or a grand agg? I'm guessing it doesnít last for a 2 gun? I am just finishing my last box of the old gold box Lapua 220 Russian and I believe the new plastic box cases donít handle the pressure quite as well Ė what have you found? I realise brass is just a consumable and itís the agg you get that drives the load, so am interested to know what your experience is here.

Vern
04-25-2011, 07:30 PM
Fergus, this year it is V133
So far that brass (49 pieces) has:
Been fire formed
Shot 4 times each in tuning and practice
Shot 2 matches for 100 + 200 another 3 times each(+)
soooo that would be about 8 firings each including fire forming.
And so far no problems with the brass. Primer pockets are still nice and tight and no other problems that I can find.
Last year I was shooting 30.3 of benchmark last year in the 1st 50 rounds out of that same box. Shot them all season long.

Fergus Bailey
04-25-2011, 10:57 PM
Vern

Thanks for the info. 30.3gn of Benchmark is a fairly stout load too. Can you share what chamber you are using, and roughly how many firings would have equated to all season long? I mostly use 15 newly fire formed cases for a 2 gun, and by the 4th agg I usually find the primers have loosened up pretty well and the cases are about done for anything but practice.

Vern
04-26-2011, 06:18 AM
Fergus so we dont hijack the thread email sent.

mshelton
04-26-2011, 10:54 AM
With those powder charges, what weight bullets are you mostly using?

Vern
04-26-2011, 05:44 PM
65-66

mshelton
04-27-2011, 09:10 AM
Ok, thanks, the 69s I have been using were bought for 6br, I think I'm going to try some of the 65-66 bullets.

Vern
04-27-2011, 07:17 PM
Do so carefully.
Many at my range think I am to far out. However there are little to no pressure issues showing on the primers.
All I can say is Stiller makes a great action.

mshelton
04-27-2011, 09:54 PM
Will do, my action is a panda, I've worked up to 29g with the 69g and found that 29.6 of 133 works bes with them.

Primers (Fed match) are showing a bit of cratering but that has been consistent from light (27.4g) to the hotter loads. I've gotten some good results with the 69g bullets but after looking at a lot of match results they seem a bit heavy, I ordered a 100 box of Barts Ultras in 66g and will give them a try in the 1-14 barrel and in the 1-15 that also came with the gun.

First match I plan on attending is in 3 weeks, gotta say I'm getting into this, been a shooter for a long time but the benchrest thing is a completely different deal but so far it's a lot of fun.