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cloud9
04-16-2011, 05:23 PM
My son and I are venturing into precision shooting and I'm wondering if a .17 HMR would be a good rifle to start with. My son is 11 years old and has no shooting experience. I varmint hunted years ago (groundhogs mostly) and did some reloading with a 22-250 Remington 700 with a target barrell. I made 2 attempts at benchrest in the past years and ran out of money both times (company shut doors once and the next company hit a slow period) and sold the rifles before I even fired them. This time we're going in with the money ready first. I figure with an 11 year old, we could start small with a .17 HMR and work our way up to reloading with some varmint loads, and then ultimately benchrest. Should we by a custom .17 (where do we start?) or buy a factory rifle? The Ruger 77/17 is getting the best reviews. I'm also thinking fixed 12 power leupold to start. Any advice is greatly appreciated, and I know I'm in the right place! Thanks.

okbob51
04-16-2011, 07:44 PM
For the best accuracy possible I think I'd look at CZ on the low end of the budget and Anschutz at the high end. But, that's just me. Others may have other opinions.

Dennis Sorensen
04-16-2011, 08:19 PM
I prefer the 17 HM2 over the 17 HMR. It's smaller, cheaper, quieter and very accurate and does all I want it to at 100/125 yards...

dickw22
04-16-2011, 10:10 PM
their guns are very well made for the money... actually very well made... period. Mine is a .17HMR and I have had a ball with it since I bought it last year. You can get a smaller rifle, sort of a "boy's model" and there are lots of aftermarket parts available. There is a ton of information available on www.rimfirecentral.com. There is a forum devoted to CZ and Brno rifles exclusively.

I spent twenty bucks on a trigger kit to lighten up the pull and have been genuinely amazed at the accuracy since then.

Dick Wright

cloud9
04-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Thanks, guys! @Mike - I'll be checking out rimfirecentral later today, looked last night, but will give it a deeper look today. Sounds like the CZ may be the way to go. We're in Columbus, OH, can you suggest a good place to buy a CZ? I guess we can go to Gander Mountain and order one, but it would be even better to find a good used one. Is there a particular model you like better than another? Also, do you know of a competent gunsmith in Ohio? I don't mind driving a distance to see somebody, just need a go-to guy as we get more involved.

Rests: I looked at Sinclair's website and almost all of their rests are out of stock. Where would be a good place to look for some good, used shooting equipment (or new for that matter), we need about everything to get started. I can tell you this...we went to Amazon and ordered a bunch of precision shooting books and one of them has an article (I believe) by a Mr. Dick Wright. Looking forward.

One last question, and this goes out to all and sundry...is there any advice you would give to a couple of new comers to the world of extreme accuracy? I would say we have a few thousand ($) to get started. We chose the .17 because my boy is 11 and I thought the .17 would be both fast, and something he can handle. We want to start there, and then then steadfastly work our way up. We would love to find someone selling stuff they don't need anymore for one reason or another.

cloud9
04-17-2011, 10:32 AM
Correction: @Dick, not Mike.

dickw22
04-17-2011, 10:57 AM
There's been a guy in the Columbus area that has sold rimfire accuracy stuff for years. His name is Carl Juess. (Spelling ?????) As I understand it his background is Army AMTU. I've bought stuff off and on from him for years. You don't need anyone else if he's still in business. I'll get the name of his business and get back here. I've known it for years but am getting old and senile.

Also there's Gene Davis in Ohio who is an excellent rimfire benchrest gunsmith.

You have a good eye. I've written for Precision Shooting for twenty years.

Dick

Max Shaffer
04-17-2011, 11:02 AM
Also check out shooterscorner website for used equipment. Max

Wapiti
04-17-2011, 11:31 AM
For your consideration, Dicks Sporting Goods has been selling what is called the 700 Camo Varmint with 4x12 cheapie scope for around $350 after a $50 rebate. It's available in .223, 22/250 and .308. They'll shoot well under an inch ( 4-.223s and a .308) and can be upgraded with all of the usual aftermarket 700 parts. You can load .223 for about the same price as factory HMR, and have a lot more gun.

Nothing wrong with the HMR, but it very situational in the field and even the best aren't bench guns.

I hope you and your son have many happy days together on the range and in the field!

dickw22
04-17-2011, 11:39 AM
It's...
Champion Shooter's Supply
P.O. Box 303
New Albany, OH 43054
Ph: 614-855-1603

Also...
Gene Davis
Walnut Creek Arms
3450Pleasantville Rd. NE
Pleasantville, OH 43148
Ph: 740-468-2232
gdavis10@columbus.it.com

Talk to both these men. They will help.

There will be more used benchrest equipment to the Super Shoot at Kelbly's Range in North Lawrence, OH than you will find anywhere else in the world this year. It is the week before Memorial Day. Take your boy and spend a day learning about and watching benchrest shooting. You could completely outfit yourselves with used equipment there and, much of it, at very good prices.

Dick Wright

Varmint Al
04-17-2011, 01:35 PM
http://www.varmintal.com/czvarmint.jpg
Here is my CZ 452 Varmint in 17 HMR caliber. You can read about it here: http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm#CZv
Good Hunting... from Varmint Al http://www.varmintal.com/coyotel.gif

cloud9
04-17-2011, 02:40 PM
Thanks, Max!

40EZXS
04-17-2011, 02:49 PM
Thanks, guys! @Mike - I'll be checking out rimfirecentral later today, looked last night, but will give it a deeper look today. Sounds like the CZ may be the way to go. We're in Columbus, OH, can you suggest a good place to buy a CZ? I guess we can go to Gander Mountain and order one, but it would be even better to find a good used one. Is there a particular model you like better than another? Also, do you know of a competent gunsmith in Ohio? I don't mind driving a distance to see somebody, just need a go-to guy as we get more involved.

Rests: I looked at Sinclair's website and almost all of their rests are out of stock. Where would be a good place to look for some good, used shooting equipment (or new for that matter), we need about everything to get started. I can tell you this...we went to Amazon and ordered a bunch of precision shooting books and one of them has an article (I believe) by a Mr. Dick Wright. Looking forward.

One last question, and this goes out to all and sundry...is there any advice you would give to a couple of new comers to the world of extreme accuracy? I would say we have a few thousand ($) to get started. We chose the .17 because my boy is 11 and I thought the .17 would be both fast, and something he can handle. We want to start there, and then then steadfastly work our way up. We would love to find someone selling stuff they don't need anymore for one reason or another.

Champions Shooters Supply
New Albany Ohio,
Carl-

B.Johnson
04-17-2011, 03:05 PM
With a boy that size, and age! don't forget good eye, and ear protection. adult ear muff's are way to big for someone that age, and you may want fitted plug's. Muff's will keep him from getting on the stock for a good sight picture, and control. Same with glass's! find something that fits', and will stay on his face. Shooting is a long learning curve, keep the frustation out of it.

cloud9
04-17-2011, 03:11 PM
Thanks for posting the pic, Varmint Al. What kind of scope do you have there?

Dick: Thanks a million for the contact info, great resources I'm sure! I will be contacting these guys soon. Also, I think visiting the SuperShoot is a great idea, if for no other reason than to show my boy what the real deal looks like. I went to the SuperShoot back in '96 or '97 I think, and was amazed, it's what sparked my interest. At that time I was loading for a Rem. 700 in 22-250 using an RCBS rockchucker, then I saw all of the custom handloading tools at the SuperShoot and felt more than incompetent. I bought a benchrest rifle from Nelson Berger and while I was buying loading equipment, the company I worked for closed the doors, forcing me to sell the rifle before ever shooting it. I don't think we see so many retirees in the game because of travel-time and patience, I think we see it because of the expense, their money is already made. A younger person with a family has to approach it a little differently, I learned that quickly. I might do it backwards this time, buying equipment first and then a rifle, whatever equipment can be bought without rifle specific measurements (rests, bags, etc., etc.).

About that 700 Camo Varmint: Do you think custom loading tools are necessary? Wilson, Sinclair, etc., or would more mainstream stuff work? I've never used an arbor press or any of the more quality hand tools like Wilson seating dies. I don't doubt their quality, it's just that I've never seen them used; is the principle the same? Then I have fundamental questions like this: If you don't know the exact measurement of the neck on the inside of a factory rifle, is neck turning necessary? I know people who do this and it doesn't make sense to me. If the neck of a bench rifle is .262 then it makes sense to me to make the neck on your case .261, but on a factory rifle the measurements aren't so precise, or even known for that matter, so why bother with neck turning, wouldn't you just be creating more space in an area with already too much room? I have tons of rookie questions like that and I'm hoping the books I ordered from Amazon will clear up a great deal for me. As a person who wants a place for everything and everything in its place, I think BR will give me an outlet to express my need for all things precise and exact...or drive me insane, one of the two. Are there any specific books you guys recommend? I ordered "The Benchrest Shooting Primer", "Precision Shooting Reloading Guide", and "Cartridges of the World". These are a start and I have a long list of others to follow. Thanks again for the contacts, it will be fun to talk to those guys.

cloud9
04-17-2011, 03:35 PM
B.Johnson - excellent advice! Thank you.

Dick - here's what I'm saying: Things are slower for me now, my kids aren't toddlers anymore, I have a little more money at my disposal and since my boy is 11 and expressing an interest in firearms, I figure it's something we can do together (and he'll learn all he needs to know about decimals!). I don't even know how to change out a barrell or a trigger, much less "tune" a load...so we have a long way to go. The good news: we're in no hurry and don't expect to win the SuperShoot next year ;) My experience is limited to loading a thousand or so 22-250 rounds, in the most rudimentary way, to kill a few hundred groundhogs. But it was fun and the thought of putting 5 bullets through the same hole is enticing to say the least. I've done far more reading about the subject than actual hands-on stuff.

Varmint Al
04-17-2011, 04:01 PM
Thanks for posting the pic, Varmint Al. What kind of scope do you have there?
It is a Weaver Varmint scope. It has the Mil-Dot reticule, but I would suggest finer crosshairs like this one:
http://swfa.com/Weaver-6-24x42-Classic-V-Rifle-Scope-P40169.aspx
Good Hunting... from Varmint Al http://www.varmintal.com/coyotel.gif

chino69
04-18-2011, 09:22 AM
I have a Savage .17 HMR. It has the bull barrel. I bedded the action, floated the barrel, put an after market sear in the trigger and topped it with a Sightron 4 - 12X scope. The rifle is extremely accurate and has killed many groundhogs. I looked at the Anschutz; beautiful rifle but out of my price range. The CZ is a nice compromise but you really don't need to spend that kind of money unless you want to. Do not overlook the Savage as you'll be pleasantly surprised.

dickw22
04-18-2011, 09:29 AM
Sir,

There is everything you will ever need to know in the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide and The Benchrest primer. There really is. Parts of both those books were written by my very-most-favorite gun writer.

Have fun,

Dick

cloud9
04-18-2011, 04:59 PM
;)

Del Martin
04-18-2011, 08:13 PM
cloud9
You have received good advice from top people. I would just like to add that at some point you will need to read the wind. It can start with simple ribbons on a stick but you will need something. The wind can be your friend. No matter if you are shooting 50 yds or 1000 yds accuracy will depend on how well you can read the wind.

John MAGOULIAS
04-19-2011, 07:06 PM
cloud9,
Just bought a cz452 varmit in 22wmr. This gun is also made in 17hm2, 17hmr and 22lr. It's a real nice gun, well made,
and with a heavy barrel. I think you would want the heavy barrel shooting off a bench and it makes a nice carry varmit gun.
Best price that I found is at Bud's Gun shop. @:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36s
John

frwillia
04-20-2011, 10:28 AM
You might also take a look at the CZ453. It has a single set trigger and will shoot little tiny groups. I think .22LR has a lot to recommend it. It's the least expensive rimfire to shoot. There is nothing quite like a "lot" of shooting when it comes to skill development. You can Shoot a Hornet or .221 Fireball, or .223 for about the same price as the .17HMR or the .22WMR.

Fitch

cloud9
04-20-2011, 01:28 PM
What great suggestions. Thank you all so much. I knew I was in the right place.

Cloud9

williev18
04-20-2011, 09:30 PM
I have a Savage .17 HMR. It has the bull barrel. I bedded the action, floated the barrel, put an after market sear in the trigger and topped it with a Sightron 4 - 12X scope. The rifle is extremely accurate and has killed many groundhogs. I looked at the Anschutz; beautiful rifle but out of my price range. The CZ is a nice compromise but you really don't need to spend that kind of money unless you want to. Do not overlook the Savage as you'll be pleasantly surprised.



definatly dont over look the savage. the first year i started shooting bench rest there was a 14 year old girl shooting with a savage vaminter in 17 hmr with a thumb hole stock. She posted some impressive scores, and gave my weatherby vanguard in 223 a run for its money. I switched to a savage model 12 in 332 to improve my own scores that year.