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Cherrywood
01-18-2011, 08:59 PM
In the IBS world, I would like to know what distinguishes the weight in a Light Varmint benchrest rifle from a Heavy Varmint. How do they go about weighing them? Scope on or off? I really don't wish to remove my scope to weigh the rifle and disturb the settings unless it is absolutely necessary. Thanks


Cherrywood

LHSmith
01-18-2011, 09:11 PM
Scope on, lens caps removed and mirage shield can be removed for weighing. The bbl contour is the major factor.Weight by certified scales.

TedH
01-18-2011, 09:18 PM
Everything that you would need to shoot with and meet the regs need to be on the rifle.
So unless you are ready to shoot BR with Iron sights or No sights you need to leave the scope mounted up.
Light Varmint is limited to 10.5 lbs or less
Sporter is limited to 10.5 lbs or less
Heavy Varmint is limited to 13.5 lbs or less
Here is a link to the IBS rule book.
http://internationalbenchrest.com/downloads/IBS_Rule_Book_July%202009R3.pdf
Ted

Boyd Allen
01-18-2011, 10:09 PM
I was under the impression that everything that is on the rifle, when it is being fired, except ammo, counts.

Dick Grosbier
01-18-2011, 10:26 PM
In the IBS world, I would like to know what distinguishes the weight in a Light Varmint benchrest rifle from a Heavy Varmint. How do they go about weighing them? Scope on or off? I really don't wish to remove my scope to weigh the rifle and disturb the settings unless it is absolutely necessary. Thanks
Cherrywood

Cherrywood
In IBS the rifle is to be weighed as it is going to be shot, Scope and mirage shield if you are using one must be included.

You are allowed one ounce for scale error .

Light Varmint or Sporter is a maximum of 10.5 lbs and Heavy is 13.5 lbs.

Dick Grosbier
IBS Webmaster

TedH
01-19-2011, 09:16 AM
As far as weights go the NBRSA rules are similar.
Ted

Cheechako
01-19-2011, 10:48 AM
NBRSA allows only 1/2 ounce for scale error. I don't believe the rule book states that the rifle must be weighed "as it is going to be shot" but it's common sense that it will be. That's why many shooters always have a "weigh rifle" handy.;) ;)

Ray

Dick Grosbier
01-19-2011, 10:56 AM
That's why many shooters always have a "weigh rifle" handy.;) ;)

Ray

Ray
Please enlighten me what is a "weigh rifle"

Dick

Cheechako
01-19-2011, 11:14 AM
Dick

You must hang with the more serious Benchrest shooters. It's a joke term, as in, "It must be time to weigh. Fred is getting out his Weigh Rifle." It's been around for as long as I've been shooting.

Ray

Boyd Allen
01-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Some time ago, I was at a match when it was announced that all rifles would be weighed before the match. Evidently some shooters had not planned on this, as I noticed several that immediately started working on their rifles, making changes to reduce their weight. It made me wonder how often shooters go to the line with a rifle that they know is over the class limit. Not that I think that a match would be won or lost by a slight difference in rifle weight, but it was an interesting peek into human nature. Evidently speed limits are not the only thing that some of us tend to push.

Cheechako
01-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Boyd

I think we all know a "Fred", to whom a "weigh rifle" is not a joke but is real. We'd like to think that Benchrest is a gentleman's sport where rules are sacred, but such is not the case. That's why clubs have a set of weights and why they spend thousands of dollars for moving backer systems. But, there are ways to beat any rules, and there are "Freds" who will find them.

Ray

Dick Grosbier
01-19-2011, 12:34 PM
Any person who claims to know an individual who is weighing one rifle and shooting another and does not report it to the referees is in my opinion showing he does not respect the rules himself.

Dick Grosbier

Cheechako
01-19-2011, 12:53 PM
Dick

Just my opinion but I don't think we should expect competitors to be the rules police. That is what the referees and other match officials are for. If you believe that a shooter should report such an alledged violation, where do you stop? If you see a guy removing the caps on his scope turrets before he weighs and then put them back on afterwards, do you report him? If the shooter next to you gets up from his bench before the "cease fire" do you report him? Should you check every target on the wailing wall and report any that you think are incorrectly measured? If every shooter is supposed to pull pit duty but you notice that one guy does not, do you report him?

IMHO the guys who push the envelope when it comes to rules are only cheating themselves. Benchrest is not my life and I'm certainly not going to live or die by what others do.

Again, JMHO

Ray

Nader
01-19-2011, 06:03 PM
Has anyone been around long enough to actually know how the "Varmint" designation began? Was it because early rifles were just that, woodchuck rifles in varmint hunting calibers (.22-250,.222,219 wasp, etc)? The old BR rifles that I have seen look like they would be right at home in a hay field, Mauser and Springfield actions,wood stocks,long barrels.
Can anyone comment on the early days of BR ?
Joel

Cheechako
01-19-2011, 06:18 PM
Joel

Look at the photos in some of the books and magazine articles of the early days. The rifles were exactly as you said, woodchuck rifles, or, in the west, rockchuck rifles. Often including carrying slings. Sandbag rests were just exactly that, bags of sand sitting on pieces of 2x6 for added height. The 222R wasn't around yet, but the 22 Varminter, 219 Wasp, 220 Swift, 219 Zipper, 22 Lindhal Chucker, 224 Pfeifer were some of the popular cartridges. A "Match" was one 5-shot group and the smallest group meant something back then.

Ray

skeetlee
01-19-2011, 07:58 PM
I think dick is right. If i were to see a fella weigh one particular rifle and shoot another it would definitely raise my brow. I'm not exactly sure what i would do but what i would probably do is question the man face to face, to make sure he didn't have any mechanical difficulty before i spoke to a referee. But yes i do think it would need addressed. I have met a lot of different benchrest shooter across this country as i really enjoy buying and selling shooting items. This allows me to meet several different fellas from all shooting disciplines. I have not yet met one that i wouldn't sit down to dinner with yet. I like to think the best of people, and so far it has proven to be a good attitude for me. I have also met a few that probably didnt care for me as a person much but that's OK, we are all different but i think our bottom line is very noble. This is a game of gentlemen as most shooting disciplines are. Just one more reason i enjoy it so much! Lee

jackie schmidt
01-19-2011, 10:06 PM
Well, If I saw a fellow competitor weigh one Rifle, and go to the line with another, and did this because the Rifle at the line would not make weight, I doubt I would say anything to a Ref, but I would let him know in no uncertain terms I knew what a fine fellow he was.

Edwin D
01-20-2011, 07:29 AM
if you do not police your sport, the police will not!

Dick Grosbier
01-20-2011, 08:26 AM
Gentlemen
It is the referees job to adjudicate protests brought to their attention, and to perform any checks such as weighing or checking dimensions as directed by the rules or possibly the match director. They may also spot check any items they feel inclined to check such as front rest side tension etc. It is not the referees job to police the contestants full time, they are contestants too and came to shoot but volunteered to take on the extra duties of a referee. If we want rules adhered to it takes the cooperation of more than just the referees. If we don't want to follow the rules why do we have them ? Or maybe we only want them enforced when the cheater is beating us personally.

Dick Grosbier
IBS Vice President

expiper
01-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Mr Grosbier.....just wana say THANK YOU for the effort put forth in the name of shooting.....you do a bang up job of keeping the IBS website current and informative...it is very helpful to all of us to be able to klik on there and know where and when events are thruout the yr....((and detailed rule clarifications and changes)).I know it takes time and effort and usually goes unheralded.....the long range shooters are wondering about the big event at Sloughouse CA in the spring right now (NBRSA)...I hope that someone appoints,designates,selects,cajoles,coerces (sp-haha) and officer to assume that role for their long range and short range schedule in some sort of combined way,,not just limited regional notification......Benchrest is a terrific shooting sport and needs current ,up to date info that is readily available thru the web.....Roger