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Pete Wass
10-27-2010, 03:25 PM
It is my observation that there are no great cleaning rod guides available. Several of those on the market could be classified as good IF they would make their insert with closer tolleraces,that is to say, a closer fit to the rod O.D.'s IMHO. The ones currently available allow rods to sag thus expose crowns to drooping rods. How about looking at this situation makers?

HovisKM
10-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Pete,

Have you used a TK Nolan. Can't do any better than that. I didn't know I had a rod with a slight bend until I got one. It won't let the rod slide through it without force.

Hovis

Gene Beggs
10-27-2010, 04:03 PM
Ditto on the TK Nolan. In my opinion, it's the ONLY rod guide/barrel saver. All the others just keep goop out of the action.

Gene Beggs

Greg Fowl
10-27-2010, 05:18 PM
Ivy Rods by Denny Phillips Edgerton, Wi makes an excellent rod that comes in its own tube with protective removable screw in business end. Excellent product IMHO. V/R Greg Fowl

Pete Wass
10-27-2010, 05:20 PM
What I would like to see is a guide that has an insert that has no more than say .010" clearnace between the guide and the rod and the guide extend as far as possible toward the chamber.When one extends the rod all out the 20 some inches of the barrel it needs as much support in the back as it can have and not bind up.

Pete Wass
10-27-2010, 06:09 PM
Often we agree on things FB but on this one, I know things can be better. A friend showed me a plastic device that fits between the jag or brush and rod to act as kind of a buffer, if you will but I just don't see any reason to have all the slop in the guide bushings that seem to exist. Can't be good for the barrel, in general, to have that much room for the rod to be wandering around.

Donald
10-28-2010, 12:44 AM
I don't know of a single guide that protects the crown. That is at the other end of the barrel. I don't know of a rod that does not droop at that end of the barrel. So, the fit of jag or brush to the rod is the important thing here.
Let's not forget the proper use of tools when cleaning a barrel.

Absolutely correct. The rod guide can only do so much from the breech end. The rest is up to the stiffness of the rod itself. And yes a small nylon or delrin bush around the end of the rod next to the jag would probably help. But it is still up to proper use of your tools. TK's guide is a great one, but so is Mike Lucas' guide. There are probably others some good some not so good.

Donald

Pete Wass
10-28-2010, 01:16 AM
I have written to TK after a couple of very glowing recomendations from a couple of my friends. I could be wrong with my generalization about no good rod guides. One of my friends said his rods did not droop when in his Barrel Saver. That is encouraging, I must say.

Greg Culpepper
10-28-2010, 09:47 AM
I don't know of a single guide that protects the crown. That is at the other end of the barrel. I don't know of a rod that does not droop at that end of the barrel. So, the fit of jag or brush to the rod is the important thing here.
Let's not forget the proper use of tools when cleaning a barrel.

Maybe a groove plus something sized bushing attatched at the muzzle could catch the brush, keep the rod end centered and not click against the bore at the muzzle and still allow the brush to be reversed. Or you could switch to nylon that can be reversed in the bore. If somebody makes a hundred bucks after years of design, development and marketing I want an adult beverage out of the deal.

Greg

jackie schmidt
10-28-2010, 09:59 AM
Pete, I think you are looking for a solution to a non existant problem. Just learn to stop that rod the instant the jag or brush clears the muzzle of the barrel, and I feel 99 9/10 percent sure that you will never harm a barrel with a cleaning rod used with a TK Nolan Barrel Saver...........jackie

JD Mock
10-28-2010, 12:59 PM
Francis, Dick Wright has an article in the November PS about a friend of his who is making a delrin-type guide that fits between the rod and the brush or one that replaces the brass jag. Check it out....I think it may be the solution to crown problems. I believe this is what Pete is referring to. James

Boyd Allen
10-28-2010, 01:26 PM
It would seem that damage at the crown might be more likely if the jag or brush are run farther out the muzzle than is needed to drop a patch, or clear the brush. Another possible source of damage would be if the jag is larger, where it meets the rod, than the rod, causing it to catch on the crown on the back stroke. Then there is always the rod falling onto and sliding on the crown as the patch or brush clears the crown. Would not a plastic washer that is a close fit on the threads, and larger than the rod and the back of the jag, and a rod stop solve most of these problems, or perhaps a few wraps of electrical tape around the joint, with mark on the rod to stop at. Generally, I have seen a lot of rod handles out of line with the bore, and rod technique that might be more suitable for clearing a sewer stoppage than cleaning an expensive rifle barrel. Fixing these problems costs nothing. Opinions?

JD Mock
10-28-2010, 03:28 PM
Boyd, the new jag is designed so that the "bore riding' portion does not leave the muzzle. There is another that holds a brush and provides a length of bore riding area that does not leave the bore. Maybe Dick W. will chime in since he did the review of these products. Good shooting....James
PS. Francis, does your mail man seem well-read on the contents of PS?

cbrock
10-28-2010, 05:13 PM
Hey Peter, As you know I just started shooting this year, Coach Bunker set me up with the bore guide I am using on the 40X and the Kodiak. After familiarizing myself with how to properly use it, I sort of came to the conclusion that only by misusing it could I do any damage. Essentially, as has been mentioned, by running the jag or brush out of the muzzle too far and damage the crown on the way out or coming back in. To try to help make it idiot proof,(for me), I fabricated a little "stop" that goes around the rod(mine is a 44 inch Dewey), that runs up against the back of the bore guide and has a set screw, this determines how far the rod can go into the barrel(and therefore how far out of the muzzle). Works good so far. If it could only help turn some of those, good X count 249's into 250's. No that's a different issue! Now I've done it, given away the first in my line of benchrest accessories, its "use" would benefit the benchrest world, and its "sale" would benefit the poor here in Maine (me).Well, maybe not, on either counts. Cheers Charles

RJM
10-28-2010, 05:51 PM
No one has mentioned the Lucas! Best one available.

cbrock
10-28-2010, 06:09 PM
RJM, Donald, #8 did.

Pete Wass
10-28-2010, 06:56 PM
No one has mentioned the Lucas! Best one available.

I have had one and used it for years. It occured to me earlier this summer that the hole through the insert was WAAAY TOO BIG. I normally would use my Skunk Meat analogy here but am mellowing in my dotage.

pbike
10-28-2010, 11:23 PM
Do you know that Mike Lucas makes different inserts for different rods Pete?


I have had one and used it for years. It occured to me earlier this summer that the hole through the insert was WAAAY TOO BIG. I normally would use my Skunk Meat analogy here but am mellowing in my dotage.

Don
10-29-2010, 01:40 AM
Ive seen "o" ring installations to steel and brass rods, "shrink wrap" to synthetic rods, bore diameter, to prevent rod and jag contact.........solution to a non-existent problem if proper rod usage is followed, I believe.

These "fixes" also make it more difficult to use rods and rod guides amongst various different combinations of guns, actions, and barrels.......Don