PDA

View Full Version : tuning



martin hammond
10-17-2010, 07:58 AM
it has been a year since the great tuner debate. 7 months since landy posted an analysis of hopewell. of those 2 studies only the analysis of the reverse taper barrel is accurate and correct. there is some accuracy in each posting but both are factually incorrect and cannot be duplicated. from a standpoint of a slower round needing to be launched as the barrel rises is accurate. turning the tuner 25 clicks and shooting any group and recording as such is a false recording.when adjusting a tuner or adding weights the prior shot and tuner setting affect the current grouping and setting and must be accounted for or the entire test is innaccurate and misleading.

cadillacjack
10-17-2010, 12:59 PM
Good to see you back on line. Your threads are some of the most entertaining on the whole forum. Thanks Fred

martin hammond
10-17-2010, 05:08 PM
cadillacjack, figure the forum can't be about scores only. forgot about the tuning debate untill reading the what ifs. back a year ago the kids bet vibe would figure the results were wrong. I said pacecil. all the clues were there, reverse taper no tuner outshooting a tuner just did not make sense. oh well! same with Landy and the hopewell method I thought someone would say what's going on with the first round then the rest settle down.

Slick Willy
10-17-2010, 10:14 PM
HEY MARTIN!! He`s BACK!!! Nobody to pick on , glad you are still alive! The Harry Deneen thread was pretty good, did you read it Marty?

martin hammond
10-18-2010, 08:50 AM
Slick Willy, I did, I've pretty much read every post of Harry's. waiting on the fella's to explain why everyone isn't shooting a reverse taper with no tuner.that is after all the best grouping. 5 years from now the reverse taper will be winning all the major shoots, setting new records and someone out there will insist the muzzle stops and still installing .825 straight contour barrels. the more things change the more they stay the same.

Pete Wass
10-18-2010, 09:33 AM
Slick Willy, I did, I've pretty much read every post of Harry's. waiting on the fella's to explain why everyone isn't shooting a reverse taper with no tuner.that is after all the best grouping. 5 years from now the reverse taper will be winning all the major shoots, setting new records and someone out there will insist the muzzle stops and still installing .825 straight contour barrels. the more things change the more they stay the same.

Very good question. If Sporters can be made to shoot as well as they do, why not the 3" rifles? One would think there either is or there could be a formula developed on the "Knot" size.

tonykharper
10-18-2010, 10:06 AM
Slick Willy, I did, I've pretty much read every post of Harry's. waiting on the fella's to explain why everyone isn't shooting a reverse taper with no tuner.that is after all the best grouping. 5 years from now the reverse taper will be winning all the major shoots, setting new records and someone out there will insist the muzzle stops and still installing .825 straight contour barrels. the more things change the more they stay the same.

Martin,

Please break this down for me. You have so many thoughts in that paragraph I can't tell if you are being serious or are mocking different ideas.

What I do know is that the Bench Mark reverse tapered barrels pretty much ruled about 5 years ago and many people still shoot them with good success. So I don't follow your comments.

Thanks

martin hammond
10-18-2010, 03:36 PM
look at varmit al's analysis, those without tuners are correct. but when the tuner is on and weights are added the group sizes increase, this is not so as the groups will shrink with a properly set tuner by 80% the reverse taper has a built in tuner. it's just a guess but anshutz engineers have probably maximized their tuning with how they profile their 1907's and 13's. Tony my guess is that 5 years ago without the help of computers as Al has shown no one had a clear idea of a barrels vibration. why I said in a previous post to shoot a group with slow round medium and fast round without a tuner the amount of horizontal is an indication on how succesful you can tune. it's easier to get rid of vertical. and for that reason it's my opinion you should insist on barrel indexing.

tonykharper
10-18-2010, 04:10 PM
look at varmit al's analysis, those without tuners are correct. but when the tuner is on and weights are added the group sizes increase, this is not so as the groups will shrink with a properly set tuner by 80% the reverse taper has a built in tuner. it's just a guess but anshutz engineers have probably maximized their tuning with how they profile their 1907's and 13's. Tony my guess is that 5 years ago without the help of computers as Al has shown no one had a clear idea of a barrels vibration. why I said in a previous post to shoot a group with slow round medium and fast round without a tuner the amount of horizontal is an indication on how succesful you can tune. it's easier to get rid of vertical. and for that reason it's my opinion you should insist on barrel indexing.

Thanks for the explaination. I now see what you are saying.

Is it your opinion that one can always tune out the vertical?

Barrel indexing as been discussed many times, and I take it you believe it will always help?

Tony

martin hammond
10-18-2010, 04:16 PM
Tony, I have more testing to do on these reverse tapers but it appears that speeds of 50 to 60 fps variations may be tuned out. Jim put a reverse 3 groove on that cz that's what I'll use as a custom. that little cz has proven with the built in tuning that the reverse to tune 20fps. I personally cannot shoot any better than this rifles accuracy. fact is I'm having Jim build me another when he finishes my 2nd 40x. he does an excellent job on these rifles.

martin hammond
10-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Tony, you can always tune out the vertical but at a price, the more weight you add the less fps variation you can have. from what I've found a harrell's tuner with less than 2 ounces of weights is optimum. once you start getting more weight you better find lots that vary little.

martin hammond
10-19-2010, 05:42 PM
Thanks for the explaination. I now see what you are saying.

Is it your opinion that one can always tune out the vertical?

Barrel indexing as been discussed many times, and I take it you believe it will always help?

Tony Tony page 426 picture 7 if indexing I would have suggested the 90 degrees. page 427 picture 9 I would suggest 270 degrees. page 428 pictures 10 and 11 again 270. for indexing I would us the easiest to tune not the smallest group