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View Full Version : Anyone tried this new powder yet?



andre3k
09-24-2010, 09:56 AM
http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=10000090

Its supposed to be equivalent to IMR4198 specs and good for 30br. Just checking to see if anyone has bought some yet. Any ideas on a manufacturer of this powder.

jackie schmidt
09-24-2010, 02:30 PM
Well, that is sure interesting. One of the big complaints about 4198 is the manufacturer ca,'t seem to make two cans the same.

I have a very good shooting 30BR. If they are willing to send me a pound or two, I would be glad to see if it lives up to the hype...........jackie

andre3k
09-24-2010, 02:43 PM
I'm thinking that part of the reason no one has ever heard of it is because everyone is waiting on someone else to try it out.

wolf gray
09-24-2010, 02:58 PM
Well, that is sure interesting. One of the big complaints about 4198 is the manufacturer ca,'t seem to make two cans the same.

I have a very good shooting 30BR. If they are willing to send me a pound or two, I would be glad to see if it lives up to the hype...........jackie
Aww, com' on Jackie., get a hunnert pounds and let us know how it works. :)

Best,

Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"

wolf gray
09-24-2010, 03:04 PM
Sorry, Jackie,
I couldn't help myself!


Wolf Gray (anonamouse poster)

jackie schmidt
09-24-2010, 03:14 PM
Yeh, Dan, I ain't falling for that again.

E-Mail me you address again so I can get that piece of foam to you. Have been so darned busy, just palin forgot.........jackie

Charles E
09-24-2010, 03:25 PM
Anybody found a powder that is *perfect* for a .223 and a .30BR? (Esp a .223 with 60-grain bullets.) If so, let me know, because I shoot both and use rather different powders now.

I have no idea who makes it. For a wild guess, if it really is European made, probably Bofors. More likely it's made in the east, near or far.

wolf gray
09-24-2010, 03:39 PM
Jackie,
I emailed the address. Let me know if you don't receive my email.
Thanks
Dan

andre3k
09-24-2010, 04:17 PM
just called wideners and the only thing the lady could tell me about the powder was that it actually is made in sweden. She gave me the name of a tech there that could give me more information next week.

Charles E
09-24-2010, 06:35 PM
just called wideners and the only thing the lady could tell me about the powder was that it actually is made in sweden.

OK, it is probably Bofors - part of one giant European conglomerate.

From Bofors, it is probably a bulk powder, where the burn rate is allowed to vary 20%. When it is offered as a canister grade powder, any lot-to-lot variations must be 10% or less. How the various companies achieve that is up to them.


For example, there are people who think Norma MRP is better than Reloader 22. Both powders are made by Bofors. That doesn't mean that MRP and Rel-22 are *exactly* the same. One way to affect a burn rate is by granule size, even with a double-base powder. Having some larger, medium and smaller granules will give the same canister "burn rate" as having all medium granuels. Whether or not this is what Norma or Alliant actually do, I have no idea -- the only point is that the people who slap their label on a powder do not have to follow exactly the same course of action.

JerrySharrett
09-26-2010, 06:26 PM
http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=10000090

Its supposed to be equivalent to IMR4198 specs and good for 30br. Just checking to see if anyone has bought some yet. Any ideas on a manufacturer of this powder.

I tested this powder last Fall for Wideners before it was packaged. It tests exactly like the 3 lots of IMR 4198 I tested it against. This is a 10,000# batch made for NATO for a certain loading of the 5.56 military round. Bulk density, velocity, cleanliness, etc.It is of European manufacture but I forget who. Should work great in the 30 cal Score cartridges.

Boyd Allen
09-26-2010, 06:49 PM
Jerry,
Did you mean 3031? I don't think that any version of 4831 would be suitable for the applications that you, and they mentioned. How about density, what is it comparable to?
Boyd

JerrySharrett
09-26-2010, 08:52 PM
Boyd you are exactly correct. I've been driving all day coming back from the NBRSA Nats. I meant IMR4198 not IMR4831. Wonder if that is why I shot so bad there?? Wrong powder selection?? Actually I shot mostly RL-10X at KC.

Really, I don't see how some of those guys shot so well in what was the wildest wind I ever shot in!!

Bulk density (weight per unit volume) of this powder was exactly like the IMR4198's I tested it against.

skeetlee
09-27-2010, 07:20 PM
i would sure give it a try! Where does Hogdon 4198 sit compared to IMR 4198? Does anyone use the imr 4198 in there 30br, or does Hogdon get it done better?

Lee

333smitty
09-27-2010, 08:39 PM
i would sure give it a try! Where does Hogdon 4198 sit compared to IMR 4198? Does anyone use the imr 4198 in there 30br, or does Hogdon get it done better?

Lee

Lee,

IMR 4198 and Hogdon 4198 are #71 and #72 on Hogdons burn rate chart. Hogdon 4198 is by far the preferred powder of choice for 30BR competitors.

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Company HistoryRELATIVE BURN RATES
Download Printable Burn Rate Chart
Listed From Fastest to Slowest:
1 NORMA R1 72 Hodgdon H4198
2 Winchester WAALite 73 VihtaVuori N120
3 VihtaVuori N310 74 Hodgdon H322
4 Accurate Arms Nitro 100 75 Accurate Arms 2015BR
5 Alliant e3 76 Alliant Reloder 10X
6 Hodgdon TITEWAD 77 VihtaVuori N130
7 Ramshot Competition 78 IMR, Co IMR 3031
8 Alliant Red Dot 79 VihtaVuori N133
9 Alliant Promo 80 Hodgdon BENCHMARK
10 Hodgdon CLAYS 81 Hodgdon H335
11 Alliant Clay Dot 82 Ramshot X-Terminator
12 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 700-X 83 Accurate Arms 2230
13 Alliant Bullseye 84 Accurate Arms 2460s
14 Hodgdon TITEGROUP 85 IMR, Co IMR 8208 XBR
15 Alliant American Select 86 Ramshot TAC
16 Accurate Arms Solo 1000 87 Hodgdon H4895
17 Alliant Green Dot 88 VihtaVuori N530
18 Winchester WST 89 IMR, Co IMR 4895
19 IMR, Co Trail Boss 90 VihtaVuori N135
20 Winchester Super Handicap 91 Alliant Reloder 12
21 Hodgdon INTERNATIONAL 92 Accurate Arms 2495BR
22 Accurate Arms Solo 1250 93 IMR, Co IMR 4064
23 IMR, Co PB 94 NORMA 202
24 VihtaVuori N320 95 Accurate Arms 4064
25 Accurate Arms No. 2 96 Accurate Arms 2520
26 Ramshot Zip 97 Alliant Reloder 15
27 IMR, Co SR 7625 98 VihtaVuori N140
28 Hodgdon HP-38 99 Hodgdon VARGET
29 Winchester 231 100 IMR, Co IMR 4320
30 Alliant 20/28 101 Winchester 748
31 Alliant Unique 102 Hodgdon BL-C(2)
32 Hodgdon UNIVERSAL 103 Hodgdon H380
33 Alliant Power Pistol 104 IMR, Co IMR 4007 SSC
34 VihtaVuori N330 105 Ramshot Big Game
35 Alliant Herco 106 VihtaVuori H540
36 Winchester WSF 107 Winchester 760
37 VihtaVuori N340 108 Hodgdon H414
38 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X 109 VihtaVuori N150
39 IMR, Co SR 4756 110 Accurate Arms 2700
40 Ramshot True Blue 111 IMR, Co IMR 4350
41 Accurate Arms No. 5 112 Hodgdon H4350
42 Hodgdon HS-6 113 Alliant Reloder 17
43 Winchester AutoComp 114 Accurate Arms 4350
44 Ramshot Silhouette 115 NORMA 204
45 VihtaVuori 3N37 116 Hodgdon HYBRID 100V
46 VihtaVuori N350 117 VihtaVuori N550
47 Hodgdon HS-7 118 Alliant Reloder 19
48 VihtaVuori 3N38 119 IMR, Co IMR 4831
49 Alliant Blue Dot 120 Ramshot Hunter
50 Accurate Arms No. 7 121 Accurate Arms 3100
51 Alliant Pro Reach 122 VihtaVuori N160
52 Hodgdon LONGSHOT 123 Hodgdon H4831 & H4831SC
53 Alliant 410 124 Winchester Supreme 780
54 Alliant 2400 125 NORMA MRP
55 Ramshot Enforcer 126 Alliant Reloder 22
56 Accurate Arms No. 9 127 VihtaVuori N560
57 Accurate Arms 4100 128 VihtaVuori N165
58 Alliant Steel 129 IMR, Co IMR 7828
59 NORMA R123 130 Alliant Reloder 25
60 VihtaVuori N110 131 VihtaVuori N170
61 Hodgdon LIL'GUN 132 Accurate Arms Magpro
62 Hodgdon H110 133 Hodgdon H1000
63 Winchester 296 134 Ramshot Magnum
64 IMR, Co IMR 4227 135 Hodgdon RETUMBO
65 Hodgdon H4227 136 VihtaVuori N570
66 IMR, Co SR4759 137 Accurate Arms 8700
67 Accurate Arms 5744 138 Hodgdon H870
68 Accurate Arms 1680 139 VihtaVuori 24N41
69 NORMA 200 140 Hodgdon H50BMG
70 Alliant Reloder 7 141 Hodgdon US869
71 IMR, Co IMR 4198 142 VihtaVuori 20N29

skeetlee
09-28-2010, 07:05 AM
cool thanks! Lee

Pete Wass
12-28-2010, 09:22 AM
This one is pretty much like all the others I have seen, not in agreement with what I have experienced with actually shooting a number of the powders listed in the same chambering, Benchmark being a good example.

skeetlee
12-28-2010, 04:49 PM
So has anyone else shot any of this stuff yet? Lee

amamnn
12-28-2010, 06:31 PM
maybe these folks would like to send a pound or two to everyone on the forum who has been working with the 30BR!!!!! Sign me up----just make sure that it is not made of "ground up plastic army men" like some of the lots of the last "wonder powder"---8028

eww1350
12-29-2010, 12:52 AM
maybe these folks would like to send a pound or two to everyone on the forum who has been working with the 30BR!!!!! Sign me up----just make sure that it is not made of "ground up plastic army men" like some of the lots of the last "wonder powder"---8028

Now that's funny no matter what you think of 8208...LOL...:D:D:D:D

andre3k
12-29-2010, 01:10 PM
So has anyone else shot any of this stuff yet? Lee

I doubt it. If the burn rate is similar to H4198 then people will stick with whats tried and true. If they were selling it for $80/jug then many more folks in the BR world may have jumped on it. But at the current price there is really no need to switch.

Charles E
12-29-2010, 02:53 PM
What Jerry said was IMR-4198, not H-4198-SC. They are different. I still have a bit of the old IMR-4198, long grains and all. AS I REMEMBER, there was a lot or two that shot as well as the legendary T. The powder I have is some of Jeff Summers old stash; he would know if Jerry would ask him & report.

JerrySharrett
12-29-2010, 07:50 PM
What Jerry said was IMR-4198, not H-4198-SC. They are different. I still have a bit of the old IMR-4198, long grains and all. AS I REMEMBER, there was a lot or two that shot as well as the legendary T. The powder I have is some of Jeff Summers old stash; he would know if Jerry would ask him & report.

Just talked to Jeff. His old IMR4198 was down around lot#3070-3090 or thereabouts. It was much slower than H4198. Where did you get what you have, from Dave??

Charles E
12-29-2010, 09:12 PM
Just talked to Jeff. His old IMR4198 was down around lot#3070-3090 or thereabouts. It was much slower than H4198. Where did you get what you have, from Dave??Yup. Back when I was messing with the .30 BR rail that shot so good at the 300 yard Charlotte regional sometime in the late '90s. Tooley had just built the gun. If you remember, I think I was leading through the first three matches. On matches 4 & 5, I had to pound the bolt open -- match 5 with a rubber mallet.

It shot so good with a too-heavy charge of IMR 4227. Dave & I figured that IMR-4198 would be just the ticket. As it turned out, it wasn't. Since you mentioned it was a slow lot, I guess that's why.

1thumb
12-29-2010, 09:47 PM
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/teddyblu/swisspowder.jpg[/IMG]

I emailed wideners about the grain size and they sent back this picture. Looks like the longer grain size.

Larry Sivils

chestsprings
12-30-2010, 04:30 AM
If one of you "users" of IMR-4198 lived close to Amissville, Va. & wanted two one lb. cans of IMR-4198 free, I would give them to you. one can is lot 3180, the other is 3198. seems like I have had them in my stash for ever. never opened. was thinking of throwing them away, as I haven't used IMR-4198 for many yrs.