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Pete Wass
06-23-2010, 11:05 AM
This morning I ordered 5 plastic ammo boxes from a company in California. They probably don't weigh more then 4 or 5 ounces each. UPS freight was nearly $13. on them or about a third of the total cost! USPS isn't a heck of a lot better. I am betting freight costs will slow down purchasing the way we freely have done it in the past. How can they justify the whopping increases we have been given over the past couple of years?

blades
06-23-2010, 11:20 AM
Pete, things to blame: Insurance, Fuel, Maintenance, Federal/state Taxes, Unions, Healthcare. And lastly everyones favorite GREED.
I was looking for a particular air regulator just recently as mine blew out. I was amazed at the audacity of the sellers on rip off bay $150 item $45 shipping and handling ( this fits in the post office flate rate box that is $14) The great rip off is the hazmat fee on our goodies, doesn't go anywhere except in the carriers pocket.

crb
06-23-2010, 11:44 AM
Bad planning. Either accept the fact that shipping stuff is more expensive nowadays or wait till you have a big order.

dpapadimitrio@g
06-23-2010, 01:32 PM
Pete,

Couple of things may have happened, the low weight would have gone at the UPS minimum, figure a cost of anywhere between $3-6 to the shipper. If your invoice reads shipping and handling charges, it usually means they did not pass on their cost of freight, but marked it up as an additional profit stream.

If it reads freight only, from what I know they legally can not mark it up, but must pass on their cost, of course not all business are aware of this, but some have learned due to past law suits from large customers who regained the differential between the cost of freight vs. the mark-up. That is why most lines for shipping costs read shipping and handling.

One of my criteria for who I buy from is how much they charge for freight, a good indicator of the margins being generated elsewhere.

From the shippers perspective, pulling, packing, shipping, and processing your order of several small and likely low cost boxes would cost the same for a much higher ticket item, so that is why some shipping and handling costs are assessed. Been there did that...

Generally the better customer focused business will have a US Postal option for the small light stuff, and that is usually much cheaper then UPS or FedEx, also indicative of their business mentality towards customers, as this is more work for them.

Doubt if this makes you feel any better, but some food for thought hopefully ;)

Pete Wass
06-23-2010, 01:41 PM
I always request USPS whenever I have the chance. It is UPS who brought Hazmat to us. Nothing changed except they got to collets another $20. I boycot them and have for years. In my case the final page on the web page showed the UPS logo where the price was. I bought the same boxes several years ago and the freight was something like 3 or 4 dollars. We haven't had any Consumer inflation in how many years now :)

Pete Wass
06-23-2010, 01:44 PM
Thanks Ray, if I were a retailer that could work but I only wanted to supliment the boxes I had.

Montana Pete
06-23-2010, 04:58 PM
I just got an order of items from Midsouth totaling about $30. Shipping was $8.95. The "shipping calculator" feature rated my purchase at "3 pounds." This is absurd. The items didn't weight half of that.

I would have cancelled the order, but no local sporting goods retailers sell one of the items that I needed.

I go along with the guy above who suggested waiting until you have a large order.

Midsouth used to have good prices, but these hold-up shipping fees have a crummy look, to me anyway.

Pete Wass
06-23-2010, 06:30 PM
items for the Benchrest Sports can't be had like they were shoes, butter, milk or most other items to be purchased. The makers and suppliers are far-flung. I don't consider myself a whiner when I lash against unfair practices. Call it what you want but I resent your attitude here. I think you are being unfair. I am not looking for Welfare, just fairness.

Dick Grosbier
06-23-2010, 07:55 PM
Pete,
Many times what you are actually looking at is Handling Charges which is just another way for the company to make a little bit more on the sale. I agree with you it is an irritating way to handle things but this allows them to show a lower price for their goods and make up a little more on the sale. You always have the option to vote with your feet and simply walk away from the sale.

Dick

henrya
06-23-2010, 09:10 PM
Ask first - it saves complaining later.
I don't buy from companies who charge ridiculous shipping fees.

Buy from someone closer to you.

Look for free shipping deals.

Place bigger orders.

Greyfox
06-23-2010, 10:49 PM
$13 to ship a 2-3lb package from California to Maine doesn't seem all that expensive to me. And my guess is, you probably don't live in the middle of the biggest town in the state. I ship small packages nearly ever day all over the south as well as almost all parts of the US from time to time. Most of my packages weigh from 4-6 lbs. If I ship a package that size to the west coast (from TN) it's usually cheaper to use FedEx than the USPS.

Think about it fellas. Like I tell my customers, you can't drive across town for what I can ship it to you for. At the price of gasoline and vehicle upkeep, postage and shipping is a helluvadeal.

Rick

Dave Coots
06-23-2010, 10:56 PM
Ray

You are my hero. When you said, and i quote, "Maybe you should lash out at the Government who has imposed so many regulations and restrictions on businesses that they are forced to charge their customers higher prices in order to stay in business." That statement is right on and is why our country is no longer competetive in the world market. Also most of the rest of your post was well taken.

If anyone doesn't like the charges of shipping, ect. and thinks the companies are charging way to much, why don't they jump right in there and get into that business. There must be a lot of profit and a chance to make a killing.

Later
Dave

abintx
06-23-2010, 11:28 PM
In this case you're paying for VOLUME not weight. It's the amount of space your package is taking up within the carriers selected mode of transportation. :(

vinny
06-23-2010, 11:56 PM
Pete

What is your definition of "fair" and "unfair"? Those are typical liberal/progressive whiner words IMHO. Watch MSNBC any evening and that's all you'll hear from the likes of Chris Mathews and Mr Ed Shultz.

Maybe you should lash out at the Government who has imposed so many regulations and restrictions on businesses that they are forced to charge their customers higher prices in order to stay in business. How much of UPS operating expense is fuel? Much of their fuel costs can be traced directly to government taxes and indirectly to the unending regulations? When gas and deisel was $1 a gallon UPS shipping was around $5 per small package. Now fuel is three times that amount and so shipping is 3X also.

Many of the small businessmen who sell Benchrest equipment are guys just like you and me. The next time you see one at a match ask him what he sees as his biggest barrier. I'll bet he won't say it's UPS.

And you guys who will complain about things on the Forum - how many of you have called your supplier and told them the same thing?

JMHO

Ray

Very well said Ray!!!

brian roberts
06-24-2010, 01:10 AM
:cool:
of you saw my post on this subject recently, but I have a friend who works for the freight division of FedEx. He told me they offer their customers a 60% DISCOUNT on their shipping. And hey, I feel the shippers pain on the hazmat & insurance; only problem is, UPS from what I understand, after a year or so of collecting hazmat, went out and bought a bunch of new airplanes!! Working w/banks, etc., they could probably say 'Well, we got XYZ this year, and project next year, based on the last two years...." Bingo! They get the credit to put together the deal. But Pete, I gotcha beat, I had to pay $9.50 for a barrel band screw, and $9.00 for handling from Jack First...and they put it in a little padded envelope that cost to ship, something like $1.65. I love capitalism, I just don't think they handled it enough to justify that price....Hell, the bluing on it wasn't even rubbed off!!! :eek:;)

Lynn
06-24-2010, 01:37 AM
Greyfox
If you ship via USPS with the flatrate boxes it doesn't matter were you send it in the U.S. its all one price.The boxes are free and they will deliver them to your door and pick them back up as well.

Cheechako
I complaimed to Amy Bruno about the price of a small item sent out other than USPS and she said you don't live in Phoenix.I talked with several co-workers who were sent to Phoenix just to work on the problems down there and they told me it was hopeless.It appears Amy was spot on correct.
Out here we don't wait in line we have a carrier deliver our boxes and pick-up our packages at the door.I don't have the full details on Phoenix but the guy telling me it was hopeless has 30 plus years of fixing these kinds of things under his belt.

Pete
Alot of businesses get a percentage of the shipping kicked back to them.The USPS doesn't offer this and they also can't have a carrier sitting at each business at eactly 4:59 PM each day.Those 2 things keep alot of businesses from
using the flatrate shipping.
Lynn aka Waterboy

akshooter
06-24-2010, 02:45 AM
try the usps ,if it fits it ships got 68 lbs of lead shipped for 14.95.

Greyfox
06-24-2010, 09:21 AM
[QUOTE=Lynn;585502]Greyfox
If you ship via USPS with the flatrate boxes it doesn't matter were you send it in the U.S. its all one price.The boxes are free and they will deliver them to your door and pick them back up as well.

Lynn,
If I could use the USPS Flat rate boxes to ship my products, I certainly would. Unfortunately, the size vs. weight won't work. If I used the right size for the product the cost would be much more than the comparable FedEx. rate. I have no complaints at all about shipping charges in most cases.

Those of you who are complaining about "handling charges" seem to forget that it takes time to pull the item off the shelf, package it up and get it to the shipper, not to mention the cost of packaging materials. Sure, it doesn't seem like much, but it does add up. Hardly anyone works for minimum wage and I certainly don't. I'm in business to make a profit and time is money. And I still say that $13 for getting a package from CA to ME is a bargain.

Rick

Jan
06-24-2010, 12:24 PM
because they can. I was interested in a product on E-Bay. The shipping was more than the price of the unit. To make matters worse I found out the the product was was for sale in my hometown. I contacted the seller so I could just go there and but it. NO WAY. This was only sold through a mailing/shipping source. Needless to say, I did not make the purchase. It is not too much different than buying from ENCO. Their warehouse facility is only 20 miles away and they do NOT have a customer pick-up area. They in fact have the same physical address as MSC. I have bought products from MSC and paid via credit card and with relatives that live there, they can pick up my order and deliver it to me on their way to work the morning after I order it. Go figure!?:confused:..... Jan

Montana Pete
06-24-2010, 04:46 PM
Hard for me to see that a comment about kited-up shipping charges from some internet retailers equates to extreme right-wing political rant.

I also suspect a few people could work a little bit on their good manners.

Fred J
06-24-2010, 05:28 PM
What happened the the profit that was added to the cost of obtaining the product to sell? That's why I don't make purchases that add an extra charge for handling.

Dan H
06-24-2010, 08:27 PM
I wanted to buy some cardboard boxes the price was $24/100, was OK with me, the shipping was 12.99, NOT GOOD with me, I called the company's 800#, got next day delivery for 7.81, I was happy. Better then half the cost of the product is a ripoff (sp). The noisy wheel gets the grease. Trust me when I say this, that I know all about freight costs, I was an owner operator hauling steel in Detroit for 35 years, I know a ripoff when I see one.

Dan Honert

Fred J
06-24-2010, 08:40 PM
Do you really think I'm that supid?

greg
06-24-2010, 08:49 PM
I think we've about beat this subject (and each other) to death. But, I'll add this and then quit.

Fred, if you went in to your local Wallyworld and bought a CD and asked the clerk to wrap it up and mail it to you, do you think they would charge anything extra? Businesses who do mail order have to either raise their prices or charge for handling. There wouldn't be much profit otherwise.

Ray

for most retailers it's make 30-50% on the sale and another 20% on the "shipping and handling". It's a royal f*****g so just realize it and don't support those online retailers who engage in royal f*****g the consumer. jmho --greg

GerryM
06-24-2010, 10:17 PM
There are different rates for residential and comercial deliverys. The question is WHY?

Pete Wass
06-26-2010, 12:07 AM
As it turns out, the merchants seem to be the whiners, doesn't it? I was a traveling salesman for manufacturers for about 15 years of my life so I am quite familiar with merchant's profits; why I complained in the first place. IF some of you want to roll over for what Greg sez you are gettin, do it with my blessings. We have an oportunity to send a message to the retailers on this site which is why I sometimes do it. If there was more SOLADARITY; not a Right Winged Concept by the way, we might find the retailing community listening to us.

Lynn
06-26-2010, 01:05 AM
GerryM
You get different rates because Joe Public is a royal pain in the butt and the commercial shippers conform to your shipping guidelines or they don't get the cheaper rate.On commercial accounts the vendor will already have a legible label on the package with a zip plus 4 address and they will be put in cages according to which state they are going to.The mailman doesn't pick anything up the shipper brings the packages to a bulk mailing facility and all is well.One click of a scanner and all 350 packages are scanned in because the shipper has given you a master label.

When Joe Public shows up they have two wheel cylinders put into a well worn out cereal box with a piece of masking tape they pulled off of the truck bumper and don't know the zip code.They are highly offended when youi ask them to put your tape on there package for free and then they get upset when the ceeal box breaks open and the wheel cylinders fall out requiring another person to put it all back together as best they can.If there best guess at a zip code is wrong and it always is then someone else has to look up the zip code for them.They are now pissed off because because the little blonde behind the counter obviously doesn't work fast enough because it took an honest 5 minutes to ship the package.
It is usually ten times worse than that because they have there untamed kids with them along with the dog but I don't want to paint an ugly picture of todays public.Notice I left out the cell phone calls and food.
That is why you get two prices.
Lynn aka Waterboy

tenring
06-26-2010, 11:01 AM
Well folks, Bruno's has a new wrinkle on this subject: They take your order by phone or internet, and tell you S&H will be added when the order goes out. That way you don't bitch about the cost. I just ordered one Redding competition seater and a bag of 1,000 patches from them. When the package arrived, I found the invoice. They soaked me $11.03 S&H, then added their $3.00 service fee which they state is for cost of boxes, packaging,etc. That's $14.00 added to a $100 order. At least Sinclair's is up front in charging a flat $10.50 fee. This is clearly gouging. I will boycott Brunos next time. Same with Midway; they kick up S&H fees. Why should there be a handling charge? Are they making a profit on the product and shouldn't that cover the overhead?

If I order from Cabelas or Bass Pro Shop, the store price and the mail order price of each item is the same. But they add good ol S&H to the mail order. Don't they have employee expenses and overhead in the store? They do not add a handling fee to in store purchases - its an expense they include in their profit margin. AND. . . .when they file their tax return, is S&H shown as a profit item? Not likely.

langenc
06-26-2010, 12:11 PM
""The great rip off is the hazmat fee on our goodies, doesn't go anywhere except in the carriers pocket.""

Quote from #1 I think_

Has there ever been a fire dae to powder and a insurance claim?? How many million $$$ /year in hazmat money fees. Ebay sellers gouge on S & H also.

Dick Grosbier
06-26-2010, 12:38 PM
Hey these are expensive union guys driving these trucks. The $20 Hazmat fee is to flip down the triangular shaped sign on the truck that says "Hazardoud materal on board"

Dick

larryp7639
07-01-2010, 05:23 AM
$13 to ship a 2-3lb package from California to Maine doesn't seem all that expensive to me. And my guess is, you probably don't live in the middle of the biggest town in the state. I ship small packages nearly ever day all over the south as well as almost all parts of the US from time to time. Most of my packages weigh from 4-6 lbs. If I ship a package that size to the west coast (from TN) it's usually cheaper to use FedEx than the USPS.

Think about it fellas. Like I tell my customers, you can't drive across town for what I can ship it to you for. At the price of gasoline and vehicle upkeep, postage and shipping is a helluvadeal.

Rick

I also think so.

__________________
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Stonewall
07-17-2010, 01:40 PM
Two times lately I have paid OPPRESSIVE Freight Charges on items ordered in the U.S.
In both cases the charges were NOT listed or sent when I emailed my order.




Lyman hard cover reloading manual $ 40 US
Shipping to Canada $ 25 US
actual cost $ 65 US

Vo inspection scope $ 240 US
shipping $ 25 US

A brown truck showed up with my box $ 52 US
- aditional charge :eek:
actual cost $317 US


Glenn:D

lefty o
07-17-2010, 05:55 PM
i hate greed, and what some companies charge for shipping is rediculous. midway usa is horrible about what they charge for shipping, so i almost never use them anymore. recently tried to order a T SHIRT from mathews solocam (archery), and they wanted $8.50 to ship a T SHIRT, i let them know in no uncertain terms that if thats how they do business, i'll never buy another $850 bow from them! F 'em all, crooks like this need to learn a lesson.

Montana Pete
07-17-2010, 07:21 PM
:I just got $88 worth of merchandise from MidwestUSA -- shipping was $12. I think that is too high. All the savings are gone-- I could probably just drive up to Gander Mountain and pay more-- and come out the same place.

BTW, one guy wrote above -- just hold back and wait until you have a larger order.

I think the shipping is figured as a "ladder" based on how much you spend. It is not weight -- it is based on the total cost of your order.

So holding back until you have a larger order does you no good at all on the shipping.

Midsouth is no better. I got stung by them for high shipping just a month or two back.

Any suggestions as to some other distributor to try?

Roger T
07-17-2010, 08:18 PM
It costs what .42-.46 cents to mail a letter that weighs 1 1/2 oz. multiply that times the TOTAL weight of a package you want shipped.

Bill Wynne
07-17-2010, 11:30 PM
When you think about it, it is amazing that a person can find an item online from several places and have it shipped to their house thousands of miles away for a reasonable fee. This was not even possible just a few years ago. And to make it better, often no sales tax is charged.

Concho Bill

lefty o
07-18-2010, 11:11 AM
i absolutely have to disagree with the above. heck one of the companies we are complaining about made it big by having good prices, and FREE shipping, and they did this for many years before they got greedy. now midway usa has so-so prices and rip off shipping.

crb
07-18-2010, 11:54 AM
It amazes me that there are this many cry babies on this site :rolleyes:

It is what it is. Gas is about $2.60 a gallon. Takes me at least 4 gallons for a round trip to the range plus wear and tear, say $15.00. Enough bullets to shoot a match is about $35. Takes 1/2 lb of powder, $12.50. 100 primers, $5.00. I live for the opportunity to expend all this stuff. A couple of bucks per item or less to ship the necessities for doing what I love is not even worth considering.

I love competing, you guys love crying. At least you should do it in private. Man up. :rolleyes:

Bill Wynne
07-18-2010, 12:24 PM
It amazes me that there are this many cry babies on this site :rolleyes:

I love competing, you guys love crying. At least you should do it in private. Man up. :rolleyes:

Ray, As of the time of this writing there are 2250 people who have looked at this thread and about a dozen who have posted. Of those dozen or so about 1/2 have been complaining and about the same amount have agreed with you and me that the freight cost is affordable.

If the cost of an item including freight is more that you feel you should pay then don't buy it. Simple enough!

One other thing: You can buy a T-Shirt for 50 cents at a garage sale.

Concho Bill

Roger T
07-19-2010, 10:40 AM
Or Had the T shirt shipped with the Bow ,I mean Really it's a Mathewes what's 10 bucks against 1200-1400 $ Bow(fully setup).

jo191145
07-19-2010, 07:07 PM
FWIW I've been told by an upper management individual at UPS that the Federal Government has a law in place that mandates all non federal carriers cannot undercut the USPS in parcel/mail delivery charges and requires them to be a certain percentage above. I can't personally quarentee thats true but take it on faith. If I knew it for fact that would tick me off more than any delivery charges. Isn't that called price fixing in the real world?

Greyfox
07-20-2010, 12:10 PM
FWIW I've been told by an upper management individual at UPS that the Federal Government has a law in place that mandates all non federal carriers cannot undercut the USPS in parcel/mail delivery charges and requires them to be a certain percentage above. I can't personally quarentee thats true but take it on faith. If I knew it for fact that would tick me off more than any delivery charges. Isn't that called price fixing in the real world?

I have no idea what parameters this "upper management person" was using, but I can tell you it doesn't match with my experience. I ship packages all over the south and most of the US on a daily basis. Most weigh from 2-6lbs. Well over 90% of the time FedEx is cheaper than USPS, most of the time, by quite a bit. I rarely use UPS, but their rates are comparable.

Also, I have no way of knowing, but I'm pretty sure that everyone who is bitching about the very low cost of shipping has never operated a successful small business. To use the word "greed" when talking about a shipping charge of $8.50 for a t shirt is short sighted at best. If anyone has ever looked at the prices for postage and then figured in packaging and labor they would know the shipper certainly isn't getting rich on shipping charges. Also, when comparing Midway's pricing, even with shipping with most supppliers, they are still right around the same cost. They are almost always cheaper than Sinclair. And one other thing, someone said they could drive to the retail store and buy the product for less than they could have it shipped. You must live next door to them.

Rick

lefty o
07-20-2010, 03:43 PM
ill stick with calling it greed.

Gumby
07-20-2010, 06:14 PM
Most Americans don't even have a clue what the TRUE cost of driving their privately owned vehicle per mile.

If I have to drive more than 10 to 15 miles to get reloading supplies, I will order and wait. Plan ahead and order in bulk. Much cheaper even with hazmat fees.

oldguy
07-21-2010, 10:05 PM
Simply greed as someone stated, ordered couple washers and plastic caps for riding lawn mower, charge for shipping UPS $12could have been sent USPS for $1.30, many suppliers make money from excess shipping some simply don't want the extra effort to vary there shipments according to size and carrier.For those of us on fixed income it's not whining simply survival.

Greed is why we are currently in our present economic crisis, well that and lack of values but that is another story...

Montana Pete
07-23-2010, 01:29 PM
It amazes me that there are this many cry babies on this site :rolleyes:

----------------------------------------

I love competing, you guys love crying. At least you should do it in private. Man up. :rolleyes:

Here's a shortened version of this guy's insulting message. I get tired of all the antagonism and "baiting" from this guy.

I would encourage the moderator of the site to watch the "in your face" tone from this particular guy. Every time he posts, there's always the insulting manner -- you get to expect it.

Just for the record, I think this particular guy is the real cry-baby and a whiner. I think HE should be the one to man up. Whatever that means.