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68driftr
02-06-2010, 12:53 AM
?

DonMatzeder
02-06-2010, 01:54 AM
Very much so. The only reason a new guy gets any guff here is when he shows up to tell the regulars how to do this. Many of the answers you will get here will be from some of the best in the world.

mjc3834
02-06-2010, 01:59 AM
And some won't. The idea is to stick around long enough to know the difference.

Wilbur
02-06-2010, 07:17 AM
What provoked your question?

68driftr
02-06-2010, 01:20 PM
What provoked your question?

I like this site, but it just seems to combative to ask a question out of the box, Most threads contain good info but you have to wade thru all of the bashing and argument's to find it, I know this is where the best hang out, and to learn you need to learn from the best, I just kinda wish the professionalism of the sport would be more prevalent here, you have to admit here lately a new guy looking in would not feel very comfortable here. Just my opinion.


Steve

Fred J
02-06-2010, 01:29 PM
Most hesitate to give an answer to those that don't ID themself. Also know what part of the country you are in, helps those in that area, invite you out for a personal observation. You will get more direct answers, if you were upfront with your information. Now that's my person opinion, and I have that right. Show us you are committed to buy what's needed to acheive your objective.

DonMatzeder
02-06-2010, 01:31 PM
I don't know what the answer is. The arguements you see are guys that know trying to correct miss information being put out on the board by rookies. I dont think it's a good idea to ban the rookies with their hair brained theories and some just won't take a hint when told that they will learn more by listening than typing.

Joe Friedrich
02-06-2010, 01:53 PM
I like this site, but it just seems to combative to ask a question out of the box, Most threads contain good info but you have to wade thru all of the bashing and argument's to find it, I know this is where the best hang out, and to learn you need to learn from the best, I just kinda wish the professionalism of the sport would be more prevalent here, you have to admit here lately a new guy looking in would not feel very comfortable here. Just my opinion.


Steve

Steve, I agree 100% with you. It's sad to see the few who continue to make bad choices and never learn. Have been on here for many years and can't believe the lack of respect for one another especially as of late.

Good Luck,

Joe

Slowshot
02-06-2010, 02:55 PM
I am one of those new guys and I am constantly befuddled by the mixed messages I read on this and other websites. For example:

I have been told a .22 will shoot best with a dirty barrel, then I am told to keep the barrel clean. Yesterday, Kimberly and I were visiting Russ Haydon at his Gig Harbor WA shop and he said, "it is easier to repeat a clean barrel than a partly dirty barrel." He also said, "if a rifle will not group well after two or three foulers through a clean barrel, it's got problems."

Now Russ Haydon has a lot of trophys and medals on his wall, so I guess he knows what he is talking about but I bet someone will write back and disagree.

DonMatzeder
02-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Hint, the guys that want to argue with Russ on that one are the ones you want to ignor when they give other advice.

Kent Owens
02-06-2010, 03:01 PM
Russ gave you good advice. I always tell folks to check the credentials of who telling 'em what! Look up their name on the IR5050, RBA, or ARA, or PSL site. Lots of folks post under alias'es so it's difficult to check out their records.

AND--YES WE WANT NEW GUYS HERE:)!!!!!! Welcome!

gambler
02-06-2010, 05:02 PM
i don't know why i hear all this bickering is so bad)chill(, it's the same at the bar, at the coffee shop, the laundrymat...folks is folks, we are gonna gripe, it takes all kinds..it test yer mental toughness...the tough will hang, the weak
will move on...i'm still here after all the tons of abuse.....it takes a village
to raise and idiot and i'm runnin fer mayor:D:D

Bill Wynne
02-06-2010, 05:40 PM
You know, 68 drifter first posted on this website at 1:53 this morning with a question provocative that might have been meant as an insult to a lot of people. He acts like he is a new guy who is seeking knowledge about rimfire shooting. On two other posts a little later today he discloses that he has purchased at least four custom benchrest stocks. Something about Mr. 68 just doesn't seem right.

Are we sure that this gentleman is not just trying to stir up more trouble for some reason known only to him?

68 drifter, would you please explain to us who you are and what we can do to help? We welcome new shooters but we don't like to be trifled with. I hope you understand.

Concho Bill

HuskerP7M8
02-06-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't know what the answer is. The arguements you see are guys that know trying to correct miss information being put out on the board by rookies. I dont think it's a good idea to ban the rookies with their hair brained theories and some just won't take a hint when told that they will learn more by listening than typing.

Don,

“Rookie”, “hair-brained theories”, and “typing” (keyboard shooting)!
Those remarks resemble me....I’m truly offended! LOL

On a more serious note, I have to sadly agree with the newcomers to this site that the line defining civility and respect have been crossed far too often.

“Landy”
Larry Landercasper

68driftr
02-06-2010, 06:00 PM
You know, 68 drifter first posted on this website at 1:53 this morning with a question provocative that might have been meant as an insult to a lot of people. He acts like he is a new guy who is seeking knowledge about rimfire shooting. On two other posts a little later today he discloses that he has purchased at least four custom benchrest stocks. Something about Mr. 68 just doesn't seem right.

Are we sure that this gentleman is not just trying to stir up more trouble for some reason known only to him?

68 drifter, would you please explain to us who you are and what we can do to help? We welcome new shooters but we don't like to be trifled with. I hope you understand.

Concho Bill

Bill, My name is Steve and I am From north central Iowa, I have been shooting rimfires for 30 years. My first target rifle was a Win 52B Bull barrel I acquired in 94, In the last two years I had the resources to buy A 64MPR and a Suhl 150-1, And a Sako quad, I have numerous other rimfires as well, I enjoy working on them myself to see what I can do to make them better, sometimes I think outside the box and would like to ask other people questions, But I do not believe this site support's what is not normal thinking! I have been a Millwright for the last 14 years so I have been involved with numerous situations that require me to think outside the box to get the job done, I think the same applies to rimfire shooting, I finally have what I feel is a bench rest setup with my Suhl so I would like to try some matches this year. I will probably see if I can shoot with Brian Voelker at his matches, Those are the only ones I know of close to me.



Thank's Steve

Bill Wynne
02-06-2010, 06:28 PM
Bill, My name is Steve and I am From north central Iowa, I have been shooting rimfires for 30 years. My first target rifle was a Win 52B Bull barrel I acquired in 94, In the last two years I had the resources to buy A 64MPR and a Suhl 150-1, And a Sako quad, I have numerous other rimfires as well, I enjoy working on them myself to see what I can do to make them better, sometimes I think outside the box and would like to ask other people questions, But I do not believe this site support's what is not normal thinking! I have been a Millwright for the last 14 years so I have been involved with numerous situations that require me to think outside the box to get the job done, I think the same applies to rimfire shooting, I finally have what I feel is a bench rest setup with my Suhl so I would like to try some matches this year. I will probably see if I can shoot with Brian Voelker at his matches, Those are the only ones I know of close to me.



Thank's Steve

Steve,

You are among friends who will gladly converse with you. Let me assure you there are people here who are at the top of their game and some who have helped other shooters for years and they will give freely of their experience and thoughts. Please remember that they are just telling you what they think and it may not be what you think. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

From time to time we will attract people who will just grate on anyone's nerve. It is good to leave those alone and accept them for what they are.

Frankly, Steve, with your first question, I suspected you might be another one of them but with your cool answer to my last post, I have revised my judgement. Like I said, "You are among friends here".

Concho Bill

DonMatzeder
02-06-2010, 06:38 PM
Steve, there are matches on either side of Minniapolis/StPaul with great folks to shoot with. You can locate them on the ARA map on Dan Killough's web site.

68driftr
02-06-2010, 06:48 PM
Thank you! Bill, please understand my original Post as an outsider looking in for the last two years! Maybe there should be a new guy forum at every site so we can warm up before we jump in, You know get those really dumb first questions out of the way.


Steve

DonMatzeder
02-06-2010, 06:57 PM
Nobody ever get any greaf for asking dumb questions, it's the argueing with the best answer available that gets them in trouble... 8>)

68driftr
02-06-2010, 07:05 PM
A picture of my Suhl.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/68driftr/002-6.jpg

TangoTwo
02-06-2010, 07:12 PM
Steve,

Standard answer is to try all the advice given to see what works for you. Keep what works throw the rest out. Everybody does things a little different. Take free recoil for instance, lots of guys shoot that way and do well. My way of thinking, how can you call that shooting if you ain't even touching the rifle? Keep in mind that if you admit that it works.....end of debate.:mad: Seems some argue for the sake of arguement.

New guys always welcome. Lots of good advice available here. Sometimes you just got to sort it out. Hip boots not required, but highly reccomended.

Ken Henderson

JACK CHASTAIN
02-06-2010, 07:42 PM
A picture of my Suhl.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/68driftr/002-6.jpg

Where are the curb feelers and a target?:D jack chastain

Fred J
02-06-2010, 07:44 PM
Steve:
From the looks of that Suhl, I wouldn't be afraid to jump right in. Get you a good set of wind flags, lots of test lots and Practice, Practice, Practice. Dan Killough is very good to work with when testing Eley. Charles Scott, handle the Lapua. It might seem like youare buying a new rifle, each time you buy a case of ammo, but look at the fun you will be having. If you can't get enough shooting in up north, you are welcome to come to Texas and let us enjoy your company.

Fred Jamison

BrentD
02-06-2010, 08:13 PM
Steve,
If you are interested in friendly shooting the Pine Ridge rifle club shoots in Steamboat Rock twice a month in the summer. We shoot more traditional (single-shot, schuetzen, or at least nonbolt) rifles, but maybe you have one handy. You will find us a friendly bunch.

Shoot me a line at brentd@iastate.edu if you want.

Brent

PS. I agree that this website is quite unfriendly. But it does have some good info here and there, or at least it did until they ran a few of the best folks off. And, as a group. they ain't interested in hearing from you if you are not a many-time champion specifically at benchrest .22.

S/S
02-06-2010, 11:11 PM
Brent,
I agree, almost 100 %, there is some good info here at times, but it's very easy to see that if you don't agree with, or your are not one of, the top guns here it seems that you are not then part of the "group", and that's when some of the good guys leave.

BUT,
It seems to be about the same with the Schuetzen guys, hell, some of the ASSRA officials banned or ran off some of the top, top, guys in the shooting game, and also ran off or banned some of the top engravers and gunsmiths that were doing work for them at no cost just because they did not agree with some of the officials bad attitudes, and they also got very upset when a new member asked some questions about the ASSRA shooting records.

From what I've seen on there site all the guy asked for in a nice way was how he could get copies of the Schuetzen shooting records and they banned him from the site, seems like maybe they had something to hide ?.

I guess they can do what they want as it's there site, but when an official can tell a member in so many 4 letter words to shut the ---- up there actions as an official is not good for the shooting sports. Yet the official of course is still there and the member is gone. What is it with some of the ASSRA officials or any officials for the matter, that think there gods and the members arn't good for anything but there dues ?.
SS

BrentD
02-06-2010, 11:20 PM
SS. I will say NOTHING to defend the ASSRA. Indeed, I agree with you completely in that regard. I find the organization reprehensible. I was only referring to our own local group of guys - we are not ASSRA affiliated as a club. We are about as friendly as any group of guys with guns can be. I suspect that may be true of these folks too - WHEN they are at the range. But not on this website.

I have seen good stuff here, mostly but not exclusively from Calfee, but they drummed him out. But I did learn a lot while he was here. I think there is a lot of this that can be applied to Schuetzen rifles as well, so I keep fishing. However, when I tried to return the favor once or twice with the offer of some ideas that pertain to any sort of shooting, I got nicely mugged - a number of times.

Brent
PS I was one of those guys the ASSRA "ran off". :)

Escbowhunt
02-07-2010, 01:03 AM
Good to see you here Steve

Theron

Bill Wynne
02-07-2010, 07:31 AM
If I have ever offended anyone on this forum, please accept my apology. As a moderator, I have tried to stop personal attacks from time to time. We lean toward freedom of speech and sometimes things get out of hand.

As far as ASSRA, I had not heard of them until now, so don't hold that against us at this site.

If you don't find what you need on this site, there is another site starting up that you might like also.

http://www.rimfireaccuracy.com/

Concho Bill

Pete Wass
02-07-2010, 08:01 AM
best advice I have seen in a while. I also like the idea of using a wind indicator that shows one the wind's velocity readily.

WILDCATER
02-07-2010, 09:08 AM
Millright:rolleyes: that explains it.:D

Bill Wynne
02-07-2010, 10:53 AM
Millright:rolleyes: that explains it.:D

I consider myself a carpenter and a good one at that.:)

Concho Bill

Lynn
02-07-2010, 12:17 PM
68Drifter
Steve you will learn more by shooting at a few matches than by reading every post on any gun forum.When you attend matches you will make mistakes that will cost you the win.At the next match you will eliminate the mistakes of your previous match/matches until you are winning.
Consistency is what wins matches and removing all of the little mistakes improves your consistency.

Waterboy

They ran off one of the best gunsmiths in the world here recently so don't take offense to much of what you read.

S/S
02-07-2010, 02:46 PM
"They ran off one of the best gunsmiths in the world here recently so don't take offense to much of what you read"

Lynn,
Can you tell us who "they" are and why were "they" allowed to run off one of the best ?. Are "they" still allowed on this site, and if so why, It may be a help If we know who to avoid.
SS

Carp
02-07-2010, 02:48 PM
The forum owner and moderators. But for good reasons. Lynn won't specify because he has only heard one side.

John M. Carper

68driftr
02-07-2010, 03:28 PM
Well I checked out the IR50/50 schedule and I have till may to get ready, Wish me luck! I am going into this with the mindset to just learn this year and meet fellow shooter's, On a side note how do you decode the Lapua lots and speed's?


Thank's Steve

tim
02-07-2010, 03:32 PM
SS. I will say NOTHING to defend the ASSRA. Indeed, I agree with you completely in that regard. I find the organization reprehensible. I was only referring to our own local group of guys - we are not ASSRA affiliated as a club. We are about as friendly as any group of guys with guns can be. I suspect that may be true of these folks too - WHEN they are at the range. But not on this website.

I have seen good stuff here, mostly but not exclusively from Calfee, but they drummed him out. But I did learn a lot while he was here. I think there is a lot of this that can be applied to Schuetzen rifles as well, so I keep fishing. However, when I tried to return the favor once or twice with the offer of some ideas that pertain to any sort of shooting, I got nicely mugged - a number of times.

Brent
PS I was one of those guys the ASSRA "ran off". :)

Well that's actually not correct Brent, what happened is first you got pretty preachy, followed almost immediatly [this seems to be a pattern] by the "I'm smarter than you because I'M A COLLEGE PROF post that pretty much detererioated to blather, centering on the fact that while you don't shoot BR you can pretty much guarantee how to do it. As a point of order BC got banned by no "they" but by the single gentleman that owns the place, pretty much after exibiting the patience of Moses...more than once

BrentD
02-07-2010, 05:52 PM
I love it Tim, the only way anyone knew I was a prof was because they looked me up.

You on the other hand are an official site policeman and a good part of the reason this place has so much hostility.

You also never contribute anything useful to anyone.

Brent

Roger T
02-07-2010, 06:02 PM
I think the OP is proving his point. This thread is starting to get a bit Nasty. Calm discussion and sticking to the original posted thread is a plus. From 1 Newbie to another

blvedere
02-07-2010, 07:46 PM
Seems like more hate and discontent than factual imformation.

404tbang
02-07-2010, 08:19 PM
I like this site, but it just seems to combative to ask a question out of the box, Most threads contain good info but you have to wade thru all of the bashing and argument's to find it, I know this is where the best hang out, and to learn you need to learn from the best, I just kinda wish the professionalism of the sport would be more prevalent here, you have to admit here lately a new guy looking in would not feel very comfortable here. Just my opinion.


Steve

Sadly, I think Steve had it correct in a lot of ways.

Steve, ALL new guys are welcome here. I don't think the folks that fulfill your prophecy intend it to go like this, but all too often it does. If you wade through the attitudes, you will find good info. And I do not think folks want to be like this, it just happens. But if you stay around, you will get the info, by someone posting, or people will take it upon themselves to PM or email you. You will get the help you need. At least I have. I have a lot to learn, but I am working on it.

Frankly, the best help I have recieved generally came through the PM's either directly, or sent through someone else. There are folks who hate the squabbling, but like to help folks. And they do. And it is greatly appreciated.

If you notice, many bits of wisdom will get offered, and when someone attacks the person who gave the wisdom, they will simply not post about it further. I suppose the old statement about a word to the wise being sufficient applies here.

Greg

J. Valentine
02-08-2010, 05:09 AM
Sadly, I think Steve had it correct in a lot of ways.

Steve, ALL new guys are welcome here. I don't think the folks that fulfill your prophecy intend it to go like this, but all too often it does. If you wade through the attitudes, you will find good info. And I do not think folks want to be like this, it just happens. But if you stay around, you will get the info, by someone posting, or people will take it upon themselves to PM or email you. You will get the help you need. At least I have. I have a lot to learn, but I am working on it.

Frankly, the best help I have recieved generally came through the PM's either directly, or sent through someone else. There are folks who hate the squabbling, but like to help folks. And they do. And it is greatly appreciated.

If you notice, many bits of wisdom will get offered, and when someone attacks the person who gave the wisdom, they will simply not post about it further. I suppose the old statement about a word to the wise being sufficient applies here.

Greg

I agree , that is why I don't post much anymore on this site .
It's not the ordinary shooters , it's all the sponsors and sales people and gun dealers posing as normal shooters . If you say anything that is going to cost them business , then they gang up on you. You can see the drop in posts and replies on the site over the last few years.
It's a real shame but the managment of this site promote and support some of the most rude and abusive members if they are sponsors . So you reap what you sow.
This is the most unfriendly firearms site I have found to date .
The inclusion of a Competition only forum is a good idea it may improve the situation. Maybe things have changed a bit since I was last here I hope so.

Bill Wynne
02-08-2010, 06:31 AM
Come on guys. It is just winter. Spring will be here soon.

A hibernating bear in winter would be grumpy too.


Concho Bill

straightshooter
02-08-2010, 11:11 AM
I've posted here a few times to ask questions, and by and large, got advice and answers that helped me greatly. I've never shot a live match, only some of the fun shoots and internet "postal" matches, and thoroughly enjoyed them (except for posting my scores). I live about 25 miles from "Dietzville" but just have never made it there for a match, either to shoot or to observe.

Having said all of that, I still read most of the threads here, and still glean bits of wisdom just about every time I read. But, once I see a thread heading for the toilet, I just stay away from it. It is a phenomenon I've seen on just about every public site--keyboard anonymity makes/lets folks say things they'd never say to someone's face without risking getting punched in the nose.

gambler
02-08-2010, 11:17 AM
you live 25 miles from dietzville and never been there ????
for shame.....:eek:
man ya gotta go shoot with Fred J, he bites but they pulled his fangs years ago..unlike the big rattlers on the range:D

Fred J
02-08-2010, 11:45 AM
Straightshooter;
If I knew who you were, and that you lived that close, I would have sent you our schedule long time ago. Our webiste id not yet up todate do to a computer problem, but if you'll check out the ARA site, our shooting dates are posted there. Also Boerne Shooting clunb has some dates posted as well. Come on down. My phone number is also listed on the ARA web site, so call me if you have any questions. Hell, I'll let you shoot the first target for FREE.

PS: Email sent.

CWS
02-08-2010, 01:09 PM
Hi... I'm CW and I'm a lurker. That being established, I just have to interject here... If THIS is the most unfriendly shooting site you've visited you really need to get out more... Sure, occasionally one of the urination contests spills over on somebody else's boots, but, all in all, these guys are basically ready to answer any and all SERIOUS questions and seem to have the 22lr accuracy market cornered. The few times I've raised my unsuspecting, iron animal shooting head to ask a question, it has been answered with civility... and that's all you can ask coming in from the cold. If you want to participate in their discipline you would be quickly welcomed by most of those posting here. If, like me, you only want to glean knowledge from the folks who have it, then sit back and bask in the glow of their experience. It's the cheap way of learning about rimfires... I'll go back under my rock now....

oldboyshooter
02-08-2010, 09:42 PM
OK,I will add my 2 cents. I love to shoot (.22, high power, shotguns, pistols, just about any thing that goes bang). Having said that, I have found a lot of pistol shooters gravitating to IDPA because it emphasizes production pistols over race guns (read expensive).A lot of folks like to shoot, but draw the line at spending a couple of grand for a single purpose gun. The fun fire idea, with production CZ,Remington's, etc could draw a different crowd. After the see how enjoyable the sport is, and that women can shoot equally with the men,they may get the upgrade craze and spend the extra bucks to compete in full rimfire benchrest competitions. Just my thoughts.

Oldboyshooter

straightshooter
02-08-2010, 09:56 PM
Fred--i was under the mistaken impression that your shoots were on Sundays only. Saw from the schedule, that the shoots are Saturdays, so I might just stick my nose in to see what's going on, and thanks for the invite.

Fred J
02-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Season starts soon.

Boer bok
02-11-2010, 09:28 PM
WERE WE NOT ALL NEW GUYS WHEN WE STARTED. WOULD IT NOT HAVE BEN
GREAT IF WE COULD HAVE STARTED ON FUN FIRE MATCH. MY FIRST MATCH
I WAS INVITED TO I TOOK AN AR-15 WITH .22 RIMFIRE CONVERSION.
TO MY SURPRIST EVERY BODY HAD A BENCHREST RIG. THEY FORGOT TO TELL ME ABOUT ALL THE STUFF NEEDED TO COMPEAT . BOY WHAT A LEARNING CURVE AND LOTS OF $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. YES WE NEED ALL THE NEW BODYS IN OUR GAME. LET THEM COME AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE
AND LET THEM START SLOW rEMBER WE WERE ALL NEW GUYS AT ONE TIME I THINK.. B0ER BOK

Eludium
02-13-2010, 10:22 PM
I'm a newby and I think this forum is pretty much like the rest of life. You have an opportunity to meet some realy great people and learn some amazing things, but you have to have thick enough skin to deal with some disfunctional behavior.

300snipe
02-14-2010, 01:07 AM
NOBODY can get a bloody nose sitting at the keyboard ..all the rude BS stop's at the matchs it's all lovey dovey :)
websites are good for part's and ammo info THATS ALL if you dont shoot in registered match's YOU will never learn.
the best people/shooters PROVE IT BY BEING THERE.

Agreed, in addition new users (myself included) have to remember that pretty much every forum on the internet is a place for anonymous people to get out their soap box and pretend they know everything, start silly fights, act like petty children, and generally offer nothing useful to conversations that should be positive. There's a great example thread here started by someone that wants to get started and then gets a bunch of negative feedback about ammo being difficult to find and blah blah blah. http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67464

The disconnection from face to face conversation over the internet is great at removing regular human decency that you generally don't see when you're at a range or in a public setting. The best option is to learn how to recognize these people and ignore them.

But yeah, I'd agree with the OP here - it's difficult to wade through some of these responses in order to get to the good stuff - it actually makes the BR community seem like snobs - which I know isn't true at the range.

Bill Wynne
02-14-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm a newby and I think this forum is pretty much like the rest of life. You have an opportunity to meet some realy great people and learn some amazing things, but you have to have thick enough skin to deal with some dysfunctional behavior.

Well said Eludium,

Some of the best people you will ever have the pleasure to meet are here among others. Advice is plenitiful and cheap, just consider the source. Stick around, you will surely fit right in.

Concho Bill

J. Valentine
02-15-2010, 03:23 AM
I would like to report that I do believe things are improving on BR central.
I got a terrific helpful respose to a qusetion and not one put down or insult to ruin the thread so I would like to say that I was wrong and BR Central is better than it used to be.

J. Valentine
02-17-2010, 01:54 AM
I spoke to soon someone did come in making insults.

wisconsin
02-18-2010, 06:01 PM
I like this site, but it just seems to combative to ask a question out of the box, Most threads contain good info but you have to wade thru all of the bashing and argument's to find it, I know this is where the best hang out, and to learn you need to learn from the best, I just kinda wish the professionalism of the sport would be more prevalent here, you have to admit here lately a new guy looking in would not feel very comfortable here. Just my opinion.


SteveI agree with you 100%. Jeff

gambler
02-18-2010, 07:36 PM
i don't agree..

if the LURKERS would start posting and the newbies not start out their first post in the negative, things would be better....cowboy up !
i had to dig spurs outta my arse at first, but life gets better not worse
if ya hang tough)chill(:D