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chuck3721
01-31-2010, 03:17 AM
i put this in the hybrid but i think this is kinda general so what do u guys think of peep sights and what are good ones and stuff options u would add to it or whatever to do with peep sights i have been looking and cannot really find anything other than centra so lets hear your guys input

captbill
01-31-2010, 07:01 AM
Warner, Tubbs, RPA, Anscutz, Gehman and the older Redfields to list a few. For NRA Highpower the Warner or the afor mentioned Centra would be good. The Last one I aquired was made by the fellow that makes them for Tubbs Its also a keeper. Take a good look at the Ross Precision front sight ("beer can")as a mate for it.

LASER
01-31-2010, 07:09 AM
Actually information regarding metallic or peep sights is NOT "kinda general" at all. There are many shooting disciplines that employ this type of sight. Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters Supply amd Sinclair International are three places where one could get an overview of what is available in this type of sight.
P.S. If you press the shift key while you type the first letter of each sentence that letter will be capitalised, thus allowing you to enter the ranks of those who regard thier correspondents enough to go to the trouble to type/speak correctly.
Typically I don't bother to respond to people who are too lazy to do this. If you are impeded in any way that prevents you from doing this, MY Sincerest apologies are offered!!
LASER

40EZXS
01-31-2010, 08:33 AM
A lot of sights out there...factory and custom. A new rear sight to hit the market soon PH Sight (rear) from Ohio. SB & LR shooters are goint to a sight called the Right Sight a 30mm from GA.
Of course-Anschutz-Centra-Gerhmann
Custom rear Warner and Phoenix.
And of course a few custon that I have missed.
A lot of sights....and this is a BR forum also.

Rustystud
01-31-2010, 08:36 AM
1. Peep sights to many are a small metal blade with a small hole drilled into it.

2. Or there are Service rifle sights that are an upgrade to an adjustable hole in a metal blade. Replacable front post and globe.

3. There are Redfield and many others who made the first micrometer screw with 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8 minute adjstments.

4. The replacable and adjustable eye piece thus refining them even more.

5. The addition of a lens with varible powers.

6. The enlargement of the lens and extention of the tube.

Target sights are not what they were 50 years ago.

I had never shot a rifle with modern target sights until last summer.
I shoot F-class and use a scope with powers from 20-50 power.
I rebarreled a customers rifle who shoots a 6.5 Creedmoor with state of the art target sights. He allowed me to shoot his rifle at 1000 yards at Butner.
With a Warner Rear Sight, (don't know what size or make appature, I was using but it was adjustable) and a 30mm tube with a lens with a dot etched in it. The front lens also was adjustable.

I had Lasik surger on my eyes and have much better distant vision than ever before. I layed down with my shooting coat and a sling. I could read the numbers and see the lines on the target at 1000 yards. The small hole in the rear sight and the lens in the front of the sight acted like a scope. I was totally amazed at what I saw. The machining and quality of the sights were amazing.
I don't know who made the front sight or apperature or the back but I will give Allen Warner an A+ for the machining in the rear sights.

Nat Lambeth

David Valdina
01-31-2010, 09:38 AM
A young, hard working man asks a question here. Laser responds "P.S. If you press the shift key while you type the first letter of each sentence that letter will be capitalised, thus allowing you to enter the ranks of those who regard thier correspondents enough to go to the trouble to type/speak correctly.
Typically I don't bother to respond to people who are too lazy to do this. If you are impeded in any way that prevents you from doing this, MY Sincerest apologies are offered!! LASER" Unbelievable.

Greg Culpepper
01-31-2010, 10:11 AM
I had Lasik surger on my eyes and have much better distant vision than ever before. I layed down with my shooting coat and a sling. I could read the numbers and see the lines on the target at 1000 yards. The small hole in the rear sight and the lens in the front of the sight acted like a scope. I was totall amazed at what I saw.

Nat Lambeth

Nat,

When I first shot a front sight with a one half diopter lens I was impressed that I was able to read the five foot high numbers on the number boards from the thousand yard line. When I can see the scoring lines on a thousand yard target I'm looking through a Nightforce or a Swarovski on a day with no mirage. Or holding that target in my hand. My 59 year old aftermarket (implant) lensed, diabetic, retinal torn, bleeding and floater filled shooting eye is not what it used to be and the amazing thing for me is that I can still shoot irons at all. I don't doubt for a minute that your 59 year old eyes are much better than my 59 year old eyes. But if you think you can, without magnification, read the scoring numbers let alone see the scoring rings on a target at 1000 yards, you are dreaming buddy.

The retina of human eye (maybe any creature's eye) doesn't have rods and cones fine enough to resolve what you claim. It's like trying to play tennis with a stringless racquet, the ball goes right through the racquet without being touched. Even if the lens of the eye would resolve the image, the retina can't resolve the small angle (image) of the light striking it.

Having said all that, it is true that shooter can, by centering a fuzzy hole around a fuzzy ring around a fuzzy blob, get things lined up to a recognizable and repeatable 1/4 minute or so (maybe even better for some) on a good day. So iron sights don't sacrifice nearly as much rifle alignment precision on a bullseye target compared to a scope as many folks would believe.

Tryin' to keep ya out of trouble here,

Greg

Boyd Allen
01-31-2010, 11:08 AM
I did the math and a 5' tall letter at 1,000 yd. is in the same ratio to the distance as a .4" high letter at 20'. This falls between the 25/20 and 20/20 lines on a standard eye chart (designed to be viewed at 20'). (If I did the math correctly) Of course this does not take atmospheric conditions into account.

Greg Culpepper
01-31-2010, 01:00 PM
Boyd,

You did the math right. A person with 20-20 (normal) vision can read the number boards at 1000 yds. A very few people could read them at 2000 yds (20-10 vision meaning those people can resolve at twice the distance of a normal healthy i.e. "perfect" eye) . The scoring numbers on an NRA 1000 yd target are 2" high. A person who was able to read them at 1000 yds would be said to possess roughly 20-0.7 vision, almost 30 times better than "perfect". Seeing is easier than reading, but I'm not going to discuss the possibilities of seeing 1/8" scoring lines at 1000 yds.

Nat, you're smokin' a better cigar than I am.

Your bud,

Greg

LASER
02-01-2010, 06:24 PM
A young, hard working man asks a question here. Laser responds "P.S. If you press the shift key while you type the first letter of each sentence that letter will be capitalised, thus allowing you to enter the ranks of those who regard thier correspondents enough to go to the trouble to type/speak correctly.
Typically I don't bother to respond to people who are too lazy to do this. If you are impeded in any way that prevents you from doing this, MY Sincerest apologies are offered!! LASER" Unbelievable.
I was a JERK for saying that. I could have talked all day without saying what I did,nor is it the first time. Unfortunately one can not put the toothpaste back in the tube. It is difficult so say Sorry without sounding insincere. I was going to go into a long winded explanation .. this forum does not this type of nonsense. My apologies.
Tim Thompson
Hanover PA

David Valdina
02-01-2010, 07:02 PM
I am impressed. First time I have ever seen an apology on line. Thank you, shows lots of class. I too have opened my mouth when I should have kept it closed. And you can't go back in time. But as an aside, I have found I can put the large toothpaste tube up to the small travel tube, hold them together and squeeze the large tube, thus filling the smaller one. Given the unit price on a large tube is a better than the small, it saves me some fractions of cents, but I was depression raised and it is what I do. Again Laser, thank you for writing. And had I shown real class, I would have sent you a P.M. and not called you on this in public. My child dominated that post.

Old Gunner
02-02-2010, 03:52 AM
The small hole in the rear sight and the lens in the front of the sight acted like a scope. I was totall amazed at what I saw.

Theres your answer.
The British , before telescopic sights were perfected for military use, used a a sort of open tube Gallileo telescope using lenses at the rear sight and front sight to serve the same purpose as a scope. These generally gave from 2-2.5X magnification but mainly served to sharpen the sight picture.

A peep sight acts sort of like a pinhole camera obscura, coupled with a front mounted lens you get significant sharpening of the sight picture.

PS
Though I've required corrective lenses most of my life, tests showed that when younger and wearing my glasses at least, I could decern differences in patterns at one third the scale that a person with 20-20 vision could.

Its as much how efficient the visual cortex operates as it is how well your eyes work, a matter of in software over hardware I suppose.

On a very bright day I can see the target fairly sharply through a peep sight without my glasses to at least three hundred yards. I made a small apeture insert for the L sight of my No.4 rifle that threads in, the apeture a real pinhole size. I also obtained a Parker Hale multiple apeture PH5A rear sight for my SMLE rifle. The sunshade has a dial in feature allowing you to pick the best size hole for the ambient light conditions.

This site
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CBMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myopia.org%2Fpinholes.htm&ei=N_FnS-aqDo20tgec7NXfBg&usg=AFQjCNEVy2rHXUH_3VYiThBMJkF9d8tZuA

Gives a fairly good explanation of how the pinhole effect works.

milanuk
02-02-2010, 07:57 AM
I had Lasik surger on my eyes and have much better distant vision than ever before. I layed down with my shooting coat and a sling. I could read the numbers and see the lines on the target at 1000 yards.

If you can see the lines of the scoring rings @ 1k with yer nekkid eye after Lasik... I want the name and number of your eye doctor ;)

The first time I picked up a rifle with a diopter lens in the aperature sights I about dropped the rifle as I could see the *spotter* @ 600yds, which I had never seen before without a scope. But the scoring ring *lines*?!? That strains credibility just a wee bit.

Pete Wass
02-02-2010, 09:03 AM
when I could see the scoring rings on IBS Score targets through some of my 6x scopes but that went away some years ago, even with corrective lenses in place.

It's hard to imagine seeing score rings at 1000Yds through lo powered scopes, for me anyway.

Old Gunner
02-02-2010, 08:06 PM
The ability to pick out detail with what amounts to greatly reduced information is similar to the way those compilation of many small photographs that form a larger portrait of Lincoln or other famous figures look like nothing but unconnected images at close range but when you step back you see the overall picture.
The eye and the brain work together. A shooter who knows the scoring rings are there, and has a heightened perception of differences in patterns, will find his visual cortex fills in the image to match previous information.
If the scoring ring is white against a black background it may only show as a faint greying on the retina, but the mind sorts through the input and excludes what shouldn't be there leaving a white concentric circle.

Greg Culpepper
02-02-2010, 08:28 PM
A shooter who knows the scoring rings are there, and has a heightened perception of differences in patterns, will find his visual cortex fills in the image to match previous information.

So, seeing scoring rings at 1K yds without magnification is a mental thing? Could be.

Old Gunner
02-03-2010, 12:10 AM
So, seeing scoring rings at 1K yds without magnification is a mental thing? Could be.

Its like a pilot spotting a camouflaged armored vehicle in a wooded area.

His memory has a file of shapes associated with numerous structures. He may spot nothing but a shadow that reminds him of some part of the vehicles outline. His mind then fills in enough detail that he'd know where other portions of the vehicle should be, so his attention is drawn to it.

The same process has been worked into methods of fooling fighter bomber pilots.
An airfield with carefully hidden aircraft may have the concrete painted in some areas in a pattern resembling a shadow cast by an aircraft to well camouflaged to be spotted easily.
In tests pilots making high speed attack runs fired on the fake shadows far more often than they fired on the real aircraft.

The visual cortex tries to connect the dots. Its why you may see a face in the clouds or other familar images.
The image enhancement software used by NASA does much the same thing with space probe images.

PS
Think of the old style printing used by Newspaper photos and comicbooks.
Seen under a magnifying glass the photos are nothing but tiny dots of varying shades. Seen normally the minds eye assembles those tiny dots into clear stark imagery.
When the tiny rods and cones of the retina pick up an image it works in much the same way, all those tiny elements become a whole.

milanuk
02-03-2010, 12:22 AM
Oldgunner,

I'll concede that anything is possible under the right conditions... but based on my limited time in a sling looking thru irons, I'm not buying it this time. Sorry.

Monte

Greg Culpepper
02-03-2010, 12:54 AM
Old Gunner,

I know what you're talking about. I've got a mental picture of the target that includes the scoring rings. Sadly, to see it when I'm behind irons I have to close my eyes. And when I do that, the bullets go to the fake shadows, not the bull.

May the force be with you.

Greg