PDA

View Full Version : ammo testing 22lr



ifldned
01-29-2010, 04:50 PM
I'd like to know techniques for testing 22lr ammunition without having access to a 50 yard indoor range. My best assessment so far is to shoot rounds at 25 yards and try and measure the grouping to the closest hundredth inch and adjust elevation using ballistic calculator that raises the 25 yard results elevation to about .78 inch high for dead on at 50 yards. I'd appreciate and will try all advice. This 22lr benchrest shooting is awful frustrating. I'm getting one hole cutter groups already with relatively inexpensive ammo but I'm aiming for stacked groups and am getting the impression that testing lots of ammo outdoors is a waste of time. Appreciate all tips and advice.
ifldned

ifldned
01-29-2010, 05:02 PM
I just noticed I wasn' specific that my one hole cutter groups are a 50 yards.

ifldned

bugs
01-29-2010, 05:10 PM
ifldned, I feel that just about any ammo will shoot at 25 yards. Waste of time for me.
Some people test ammo at 50 yards indoors but some of that ammo will only shoot for them indoors and stink outdoors. Myself I always test ammo outdoors using wind flags just like shooting in a match. This is just my opinion and is of no charge, so take it like that.

Your looking for groups that look like one bullet has gone thru the hole but there might have been five to seven thru it. And yes 22 benchrest shooting is testing on the nerves!

Eddie Wells

Bill Wynne
01-29-2010, 06:13 PM
For what it is worth, I like to remove as many external factors as possible when I test ammo. I would rather test one ammo against another in a building even if it is only a 25 yard range. You can tell better ammo from inferior ammo at that range.

One of the best shooters I know tells me he likes to test ammo outside at 25 yards. He says the wind will be less of a factor at that range.

Now the longest range I can set up in my house, from the kitchen down the hall......

Concho Bill

martin hammond
01-29-2010, 07:12 PM
I don't know how any human can differentiate between poi using 1050fps ammo and 1060 fps ammo at 25 yards.

bugs
01-29-2010, 08:08 PM
They can't Martin that's my point !

Bill Wynne
01-29-2010, 08:09 PM
I don't know how any human can differentiate between poi using 1050fps ammo and 1060 fps ammo at 25 yards.

The thing is different lots of ammo shoot differently from each other. The theory is the tightest groups at 25 yards will be the tightest groups at 50 yards.:)

Concho Bill

bugs
01-29-2010, 08:27 PM
Bill have to disagree some 2.00 a box ammo will shoot well at 25 yards, I have yet to find one that shoots crappy at 25 but check them at 50 yards. they will dissapoint you at 50.

martin hammond
01-29-2010, 09:40 PM
The thing is different lots of ammo shoot differently from each other. The theory is the tightest groups at 25 yards will be the tightest groups at 50 yards.:)

Concho Bill

then what do you do with your tuner when testing at any distance under 50 yards?

MarkR
01-29-2010, 10:02 PM
then what do you do with your tuner when testing at any distance under 50 yards?

Maybe some set thier tuner to whichever ammo they want to shoot at 50 yds... making the rest,,,junk !
Misinformation...is one of the best ways to throw off the enemy !!!
Mark

Bill Wynne
01-29-2010, 10:45 PM
then what do you do with your tuner when testing at any distance under 50 yards?

We are talking about testing different lots of ammo to find the best are we not?

You don't do anything with your tuner when you are testing different lots of ammo against each other. Don't add a second factor just yet. That will come latter. If you shoot several groups of one lot of ammo against several groups of another lot of ammo one will average smaller making it the best ammo of the two for your rifle.

You will not find ammo that will group .375" at 25 yards group better than that at twice the distance. There is a correlation on that. Just trust me.

Concho Bill

martin hammond
01-30-2010, 08:30 AM
Bill, thanks thats what I wanted to know. now the next question do you beleive a rifle tuned at 50 yards is tuned at 25. and if it could be proven beyond any resonable doubt that it cannot be would you continue to test at 25 and shoot at 50. martin

BrentD
01-30-2010, 08:33 AM
Of course, it's not just about the distance. What data you collect, what you do with it and how you evaluate it matters as much or more than anything else. There are many ways to do this, some are better than others.

Brent
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Stats/Testing%20loads.htm

Bill Wynne
01-30-2010, 09:02 AM
Bill, thanks thats what I wanted to know. now the next question do you believe a rifle tuned at 50 yards is tuned at 25?

If it could be proven beyond any reasonable doubt that it cannot be would you continue to test at 25 and shoot at 50?
martin

First question: Yes

Second question: No

I test ammo indoors at 50 yards. I believe that it is better to test ammo indoors at 25 yards rather than at 50 yards outside if those are your choices.

Concho Bill

martin hammond
01-30-2010, 09:46 AM
varmintal.com/ Bill, Varmint Al has given the shooting community a gift. and if you open that gift you will find A, depending on the contour of the barrel the contour and lack of taper has a huge impact on the distance a rifle can be tuned. an example a straight .830, .880 or 1.00 does not have the flexing capability of a 1.175 to .750 taper or a reverse taper barrel. Varmint Al's graphs and analysis of ballistics are unchallenged. in short if you are using one of the straight no taper barrels your tuning and distance is compromised. it is impossible to be tuned at 25 yards and be tuned at 50 yards and 100 yards. not unlikely or maybe not. it is impossible. and if you installed a barrel without a taper or your barrel isn't a reverse you are in even worse pickle. those analysis are there and they are free.

Slick Willy
01-30-2010, 10:22 AM
Martin, you definitely need to show your expertice at some sanctioned matches this year!!! I shoot in Alabama, Georgia,and Tenn. I think we can raise enough $ to bring you on a vacation from Pa,and see you demostrate to us just how to tune a 40X .WE all own several,I own in excess of 30 so we need help!!! I mean lots of help!!! Come on down we`ll have some shrimp and grits and show you how we slop our hogs if you just show us how to tune our 40X`s!!! Keep up the good work Sunshine!

BrentD
01-30-2010, 01:28 PM
If it don't shoot for score then it is junk. I don't care how good it groups.

That's one of the more bizarre positions I've ever heard. Can you rationalize that?

Bill Wynne
01-30-2010, 02:24 PM
Back to the main question. I test for score at 50 yards. If it don't shoot for score then it is junk. I don't care how good it groups.

I have heard this song before and I understand that we shoot for score. Even so, my money is on the ammo that groups best. I zero my rifle to the center of a group before a match. Where am I wrong?:)

Concho Bill

Joe Friedrich
01-30-2010, 05:59 PM
I'd like to know techniques for testing 22lr ammunition without having access to a 50 yard indoor range. My best assessment so far is to shoot rounds at 25 yards and try and measure the grouping to the closest hundredth inch and adjust elevation using ballistic calculator that raises the 25 yard results elevation to about .78 inch high for dead on at 50 yards. I'd appreciate and will try all advice. This 22lr benchrest shooting is awful frustrating. I'm getting one hole cutter groups already with relatively inexpensive ammo but I'm aiming for stacked groups and am getting the impression that testing lots of ammo outdoors is a waste of time. Appreciate all tips and advice.
ifldned


I feel it's a preference in what you believe through experience or have access to at this time to give you the results you are looking for. Personally I do not test indoors or at 25 yrds. It's all done outdoors at 50 yrds and this works for me. I do shot groups but not many when testing lots of ammo because there are more times where the conditions here are not stable and have learned over the years to test in whatever conditions are given on that day.
When new ammo arrives to the dealers there isn't much time between testing, finding a lot and putting your order in.

I agree that this game can get frustrating at times, but learning to keep it simple will ease the frustration. It's only as frustrating as we allow it to be. This is a game of choices.

Good luck with your testing.

Joe

Beau
01-30-2010, 07:08 PM
Nobody cares.

Bill Wynne
01-30-2010, 08:54 PM
The last thing I would want is to have the Kentucky guys who shoot down on me.

Concho Bill but my friends call me Kentucky Bill

Keith S
01-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Too get back on track. Does anyone here test ammo with the tuner off the gun? Then take the best shooting lot and tune IT?

cadillacjack
01-31-2010, 09:00 AM
You're holding back! Remember when we tested at 42 yds? Then we found out the scheduled match was going to be at 50 yds.? What a waste. We did listen to some good tunes, watched some cartoons, and never did get tuned. Last match I went to my gun was too loud and I was told to tune it down. Seems like some folks on here dance to a different tune, I try to tune them out. Stay Tuned; more to come. (P.S. I think I'm going Looney Toons) As a result of this thread I will never tune my rifle; I'll ADJUST IT. Fred

Keith S
02-02-2010, 02:00 PM
My reasoning is that the best shooting ammo from a given barrel, would be the easiest to tune
Making good ammo better.

alan k
02-02-2010, 04:21 PM
My reasoning is that the best shooting ammo from a given barrel, would be the easiest to tune
Making good ammo better.

WRONG! It allows you to find great ammo AND tune it to KILLER. Under the other theory no need to test lots any Eley can be tuned to your rifle.