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FredB
10-13-2009, 06:51 PM
I just picked up a used sporter that shoots so so, I read an article on testing the barrel for the location of the dead spot of the parallel node. I found this spot about 5 1/4" from the end of the barrel. I was wondering what I could do to the barrel to get it at the crown. Do I have the barrel cut off at that point or is there something else I can do?

B. Harvey
10-13-2009, 06:56 PM
The node is going to be around 80% of free barrel length, so yes, if you cut some length, the node will indeed be closer to the muzzle.

25" free length- node around 5" from muzzle.
20" free length- node around 4" from muzzle.
15" free length- node around 3" from muzzle.

You see where this is going?

You could also add weight ahead of the node to move it forward, but most add weight ahead of the muzzle to move the node toward the crown.

But, if it's a sporter you wish to shoot in competition, a tuner is not a legal addition.

DonMatzeder
10-13-2009, 07:05 PM
Recessing the crown into the barrel is one solution. Try moving your scope in the rings and moving the ring on the receiver. This will also change the resonance of the system. A presure point in the fore end of the stock is another option. Just wild guesses since I have no sporter experience. 8>)

Bill B
10-13-2009, 07:08 PM
With a sporter your options are;

1) Try to find ammo that it likes.

2) Re-barrel.

What action does your sporter have?

FredB
10-13-2009, 07:27 PM
Remington 541 with a Hart barrel

tim
10-13-2009, 10:56 PM
Fred, I think you're gonna have to play with ammo first to see what you got. You risk eliminating interior bore choke if you cut, I'd probably shoot a few lots first IMHO.

Don
10-14-2009, 01:31 AM
Try moving your scope in the rings and moving the ring on the receiver. This will also change the resonance of the system. 8>)

Don M., how did you come up with and confirm this discovery?.........Don J.

DonMatzeder
10-14-2009, 05:11 AM
Trial and error...certainly not from advice from any of the sporter shooters that support a sporter class to bring in new shooters,,,,

Travelor
10-14-2009, 08:24 AM
Maybe a epiphany (sp ?) has ocurred for me.

Are you saying that a tuner placed on the end of a barrel with adjustable length weights is there to adjust the "dead spot" to the mechanical muzzle, thus causing the bullet to exit at a point at which the barrel is not flexing?

Pardon my lack of understanding, but I'm here to learn.

Don
10-14-2009, 04:11 PM
Trial and error...certainly not from advice from any of the sporter shooters that support a sporter class to bring in new shooters,,,,

Good find, and I concur, have been doing this for years and I am surprised more competitors have not picked up on it.............Don J.

Kent Owens
10-14-2009, 05:50 PM
"Trial and error...certainly not from advice from any of the sporter shooters that support a sporter class to bring in new shooters,,,, "

Don,
In almost every case when someone asked a sporter question, they are real disappointed with an honest answer. An example is will a factory(----) compete with the benchrest sporters out there? duhh-NO. That answer makes 'em mad and then they want to argue that ole Billy Joe Bim Bob has one that'll beat 'em all, and off it goes.
Truth is, in IR5050 and RBA there are sporters that'll shoot with or outshoot most big guns, if the shooter can see how to shoot 'em. There is a bunch of e'm out there too. The 6.5 power scope is the limiting factor.
What I stated above is the reason most folks won't go out on a limb and try and answer questions. It starts arguements, and nobody wins with those.
I'm game, what's your question? We need all the new shooters we can get!
If I can answer it I will, but I warn you, I don't know much.

Fred J
10-14-2009, 05:54 PM
Kent:
You hit the nail on the head. That's why you don't get very many family couples the will shoot Sporter in RBA or IR50/50.

TangoTwo
10-14-2009, 06:45 PM
What almost all new shooters fail to realize is that sporters are full blown bench guns built to different rule than the big guns. I don't want any changes to the rule, but, sporters are not sporters as most would visualize. Kinda like a cartop 12' fishing boat and a 100' luxury cruiser are both boats, just slightly different.

Ken

lttac
10-14-2009, 07:14 PM
I agree that the Sporter is not a sporter. Want to make it a "sporter" class? Factory produced rifles only!! I have never seen a "Turbo" factory rifle sitting on the rack at any gun store I have ever been to. Just my .02 cents worth.:D

DonMatzeder
10-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Problem is that you have seen an anchutz sitting in a rack and you will have serious guns dominating just as they do now. Nothing wrong with good guns in the class and all you have to say to a new poster is that these guns are special. The guys that shoot them like them the way they are and that is fine. No one likes an arguement, at least I don't, but honestly telling the new guys how to tune one and what it takes to win with one would go a long way towards pointing them in the right direction and avoiding the 10-22 type arguements.

Kent Owens
10-14-2009, 09:18 PM
Tango 2,
I agree, I like the rule as it is, and the same way it has been since I began shooting IR. Consistentcy with the rules has made it possible for a BR sporter to be on the level they are on now. They're the most challenging of all the classes, and the most fun in my opinion, and I don't even shoot 'em well.
Sorry to spoil the guys thread. If I can answer any questions you may have, please PM me and I'll do my best.

gambler
10-14-2009, 10:40 PM
don't change the rules, just change the class name to "custom Sporter "
cuz that's what it IS !!!

wboonville
10-15-2009, 01:35 PM
This sport is just like all others how deep is your pockets can you go over seas and test ammo and when you find it buy all you want buy guns till you got three that will do what you want . And it goes on and on

HovisKM
10-15-2009, 01:53 PM
I just picked up a used sporter that shoots so so, I read an article on testing the barrel for the location of the dead spot of the parallel node. I found this spot about 5 1/4" from the end of the barrel. I was wondering what I could do to the barrel to get it at the crown. Do I have the barrel cut off at that point or is there something else I can do?

Fred,

Find a gunsmith that knows how to ring it, have the muzzle recessed until you move the node to the crown. Then test ammo.

Hovis

Pete Roberson
10-15-2009, 03:46 PM
I agree that the Sporter is not a sporter. Want to make it a "sporter" class? Factory produced rifles only!! I have never seen a "Turbo" factory rifle sitting on the rack at any gun store I have ever been to. Just my .02 cents worth.:D

Cooper started all of this when they made a "Factory Sporter" with a Lilja Barrel, jewel trigger, and a stock that looks just like a good share of what`s being used today.
Shooting any other Factory sporter just didn`t work back then!!!
So do the rules change or do you as an organization disqualify the cooper?!
I do believe that the change was for the better!
Pete

pacecil
10-16-2009, 02:31 PM
You suggested, have the muzzle recessed until you move the node to the crown.
You can more properly machine, inspect, and clean the crown if you thread the barrel and install a sleeve. Clamping instead of threading is an option. This also allows better control of weight and length by using a sleeve. I and others have done this but I'm not sure any of us obtained good results. Could it have been because it's not really desirable to have the muzzle and node at the same point?

Beau
10-16-2009, 03:17 PM
I agree that the Sporter is not a sporter. Want to make it a "sporter" class? Factory produced rifles only!! I have never seen a "Turbo" factory rifle sitting on the rack at any gun store I have ever been to. Just my .02 cents worth.:D

I don't even do sporter so really don't care. But factory produced and gun store sold are two different things. I think Flash Ebert could classify his business as a factory. Albeit a small one but a factory nonetheless.

Beau
10-16-2009, 03:19 PM
Fred,

Find a gunsmith that knows how to ring it, have the muzzle recessed until you move the node to the crown. Then test ammo.

Hovis

It doesn't work. You just move the node further back as proved by the ringing.

tim in tx
10-16-2009, 10:47 PM
but beau ,it works exactly like hovis said it will.but when you just cut off the end flush you are shortening the barrel so the node moves back as you cut it back , but by having a recess you are not shortening the barrel so the node will stay put for the most part. it should be said more like drill the crown back to the dead spot .that is how i got the dead spot to the crown on my weak middle barrel testing.it just wasnt to the point of staying in tune for long when the dead spot was at the crown,and the 2 loads had not completly converged yet either. when the end of the recess was chopped off a little at a time the convergance of 2 loads happened when the dead spot was about 2.25 inches behind the crown.hope this helps tim in tx