View Full Version : IBS Score Nationals Two Gun Cash Bash!

Al Nyhus
08-08-2009, 09:41 AM
The IBS Score Nationals is fast approaching. We're going to have a good number of participants shooting both the 6X classes (Hunter and Varmint Hunter) as well as the VfS class (LV and HV), so it's a perfect time to add some fun to the mix.

There will be a TWO GUN CASH BASH run for all those who would like to participate. :cool: It's going to be simple and easy..here's how it will be set up:
-$20 cash gets you in, no checks (for ease of payout later).
-100% payback.
-Ties will be broken by IBS Creedmore rules.
-Payout will be 50/20/10/10/10 for the Top Five Two Gun finishers.

For those shooting multiple guns, you'll need to designate which 6 Power and which Varmint gun you'll be accumulating points with. Those shooting multiple guns (VH, Hunter, LV and HV) can enter twice @ $20 per entry.

You need to get in before we start the first warmup (100 yds) on Tuesday morning. The range statistician will provide me with the Top Five finishers at the completion of the event, the big stacks of money will be rubber banded together, stuffed into greasy envelopes covered with Imperial Die Wax stains and passed out accordingly. :)

So, pull out that extra Jackson you've got tucked away in your wallet behind the pics of the wife and kiddlets, see me at the range and we'll have some extra fun. :)

Contact me at: tenxal@yahoo.com if you have any questions. -Al

Humble Henry
08-11-2009, 08:49 AM
Al will borrow the 20 from the wife, just to shoot the BASH!!!!


08-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Confederate money won't be accepted, must be Yankee money.

he has some mint T.J. Jackson $500erds, he can buy the range...unless they were out of a 1950's vintage Cheerios box!

Al Nyhus
08-12-2009, 08:04 AM
There's been lots of good response to the TWO GUN CASH BASH. :)
Should be fun!

jackie schmidt
08-12-2009, 08:34 AM
A little off topic, but percentage wise, how many Score Shooters shoot both Varmint for Score, and HBR.

The reason I ask is we have an upcoming agenda item to institute Varmint for Score as a Registered Competition in the NBRSA. But, the vast majority of NBRSA Shooters who now shoot group, and would like to shoot Varmint for Score, have no interest in shooting HBR, or Varmint Hunter, for that matter.

There has been talk of holding the events at the same time, but this is to bolster the attendance at HBR Matches, as we have only a handfull in our Region.

I know various parts of the Country are different when it comes to what is popular.

I would think for the NBRSA, simply having LV and HV score would solve the problem. That would be the same Format as Group, you would just be shooting Score instead of Group.

I am curious as to why the IBS did not do this in the beginning. Most Benchrest Matches at the Registered Level are based on the Two Gun Format. Why wasn't it set up just like group?? LV and HV with LV and HV Competition.....jackie

Al Nyhus
08-12-2009, 09:46 AM
A little off topic, but percentage wise, how many Score Shooters shoot both Varmint for Score, and HBR.

Not off topic at all, Jackie. In our part of the country, virtually everyone shoots the Score Two Gun. At Webster City, Ia. and Holmen, Wi., each tournament is a two day affair with Sat. being the 6 Power guns (HBR and VH combined) and Sunday is the Varmint class (LV and HV combined). This format has encouraged the Hunter guys to build a Varmint gun and visa versa. I'm an example of this...started as a Hunter shooter and added a Varmint gun to double up on the fun factor for the weekend. We also have guys that were primarily Group shooters that did some Score shooting with their LV and HV guns decide to add a 6 Power gun.

The result for our area has been a big surge in BR attendace. We also have guys that were primarily Score shooters competing in registered IBS Group events, as well. I've shot in a couple of IBS LV/HV Group events at Webster City and have really enjoyed myself.

Our area also has NBRSA ranges at Van Dyne, Wi., Kansas City and St. Louis. These ranges as well as the IBS ranges at Webster City and Holmen had a great base of Hunter shooters to draw from, so from that aspect we had a solid foundation on which to build a sucessful Two Gun Score program.

Because of all of this, you'll see the same shooters attending the IBS events and the NBRSA events in our area. Lots of crossover, virtually none of the 'this sanctioning body vs. that sanctioning body' stuff....just a great bunch of guys having fun and shooting their hearts out.

The Two Gun Score format was the brainchild of the late Dan Hackett. It was advanced by Randy Robinett when he ran the IBS matches at the old River City club in Mason City, Iowa which is where I began competing in registered tournaments.

At present, the IBS only recognizes the Two Gun for the World Record, not as a seperate National Championship.

And while I don't want a thread about the IBS Score Nationals to turn into a discussion about the proposed NBRSA Score format for the Varmint classes, I understand the concerns people have about a proposed new Score format hurting this class or that class. I'll dip my big toe cautiously in the political waters just enough to advance this thought:

We have in excess of 50 people that will be shooting the Two Gun Score format at the IBS Score Nationals. :)

Jackie, we'd love to see you up here....c'mon up! :) -Al

08-12-2009, 01:12 PM
After shooting my First event at Webster City with my VFS gun, I felt I was missing something by not shooting the 6x class, so by the next event I had me a 6x Vhtr rig to compete in the two gun...can't imagine it any other way now.

Dick Grosbier
08-12-2009, 04:07 PM
I am curious as to why the IBS did not do this in the beginning. Most Benchrest Matches at the Registered Level are based on the Two Gun Format. Why wasn't it set up just like group?? LV and HV with LV and HV Competition.....jackie

Just go to the IBS website and look at the results, number of shooters in most VFS matches is generally just not big enough to divide into 2 classes. I was nat involved in making rules at the time IBS introduced VFS but I am pretty sure it was just meant to bolster attendance at Hunter matches , I do not believe it was envisioned VFS would dominate in score shooting. I also think there is some concern within NBRSA that hunter shooters will quit shooting 6x and go to VFS . Many believe that contributed heavily to the reduced numbers of 6x shooters at IBS matches and I cannot say that isn't true. The attractive thing about score matches is a small club can put on a score match with less personnel and equipment than a group match. Several places I know of essentially put on score matches with one worker and 5-15 shooters. Once again with under 20 participants running 2 classes is spreading a bit thin.

Dick Grosbier

Pete Wass
08-13-2009, 11:47 PM
Most of the clubs in the Northeast do not run seperate matches for classes. All three IBS classes all shoot together and are seperated by class at the end of the day. Most clubs in the Northeast run one day events as their normal event with a few exceptions such as the Bud Pryor and Firecracker, which are three day, three yardage events which are agged together. There are some two day events as well; one yardage each day agged together such as State Championships and "Normal Nationals". In the area South of Thurmont, Md, there are almost no Hunter rifles competed. Some of those clubs run two yardages in a single day.

Very few of us in the East shoot both VFS and Hunter rifles. There is currently a very small handfull of us and only compete with both at the Bud. I, for the life of me, don't see why more people don't try 6X rifles. Some of the better VFS shooters who have tried it recently do very well at it and find it challenging. While one can never know what the future holds, I don't ever see the Two Gun format becoming the norm here in the East. We don't have the same mindset as our Western Brethern does, apparently. Our participants seem to like the single, easy day, weekend shoot. Most of us live close enough to them to be able to do one nearly every weekend if we choose to. The distance thing does change things I think.

Jerry Reisdorff
08-14-2009, 09:08 AM
I believe that more VFS shooters would try if one could simply put a 6pwr scope on their 10.5 vfs rifle. As it is now you must build a 10lb rifle with a special action that has a cutout on it.

Jerry :(

Pete Wass
08-14-2009, 10:51 AM
I believe that more VFS shooters would try if one could simply put a 6pwr scope on their 10.5 vfs rifle. As it is now you must build a 10lb rifle with a special action that has a cutout on it.

Jerry :(

I'm sure you know Jerry, the VFS thing evolved from the actions with the cutout in them and not the other way around. Sports tend to require specialized eqipment and this one is no exception.

I think there are a number of people who would gladly loan someone interested in trying 6 power, one of their rifles complete with the ammo necessary . I have a standing offer for exactly that. Frankly, I don't understand why the 6 power classes aren't popular in the South; the Kentucky Windage thing I always heerd about and all.

Just as an observation; a couple of folks I know who are good at 6 power shot a lot of Sillywet in the past and were good at that.

jackie schmidt
08-14-2009, 01:06 PM
I know quite a few active Group Shooters who are interested in shooting Varmint for Score.

But, I can't recall one who is interested in staring through a 6x scope.

This is probably why you can count the HBR Shooters in the Gulf Coast Region on your fingers and toes, and still have one shoe on.

It's a Regional Thing.

Have you ever thought that if you would allow enough scope power to see your bullet holes without a spotting scope, (12X would probably do it), you might get a little more attendance. But that will never happen, because every body knows that the one defining aspect of HBR that is carved in Granite is that 6X scope..........jackie

08-14-2009, 01:57 PM
Jackie, have you shot hunter or varmint hunter using a 6X scope? The amazing thing is you can see the .30 cal holes. But to really define where they are on the rings you need a spotting scope. Now if you accidentally get one right on the x like a pinwheel you don't need any spotting scope, it sticks out like sore thumb.


Jerry Reisdorff
08-14-2009, 02:04 PM
not exactly. You can put a 7 power and up scope on a Hunter rifle and shoot it in Varmint for Score (VFS) if you are looking for more time on the line. You may not win but you can do it. And judging by some of the Hunter Class winning scores you just may win that way.

A LV rig though - I confess though I have built the VH rifle - and now have all the extra's (spoting scope and sinclar stand) but not the time to get it to shoot yet.

Jackie, It is a little like shooting 1000 yd benchrest - using that 6 pwr scope at 100 yds.


jackie schmidt
08-14-2009, 03:08 PM
Yes, I shot HBR for about four years in our Region, we had an active Trans Continental League as well as a couple of Registered Matches.
I won a few matches, highest score ever was a 250 14x. Inever did "shoot clean" at 200.

I actually shot a 25 caliber for a while, I necked up a .243 Lapua case and pushed the shoulder back about 1/4 inch. Was really accurate with the Fowler 85 grn bullet behind enough N135 to push it 3350.

I also experimented with the 6.5 Japanese necked up to 30, shot good untill Norma stopped making "real Norma" brass for the parent case. I called the case the "30 jackie-sackie". The brass that I developed the case on was made back when Norma had that nice red tint, and was empecable in all respects. I still have the reamer, but the brass that Norma started furnishing after 2000 was obviously farmed out. The stuff was ugly, and terrible.

The straw that broke the camels back with me was in about 2000. A shooter named Sam Weaver, (his Dad is Al Weaver), was about the best HBR shooter in the entire Region, even won a National Championship. He shot a modified 30-30.

One week end, we were at a Trans Continental Match, and he was talking about holding 1/2 ring, a whole ring, etc. We jokingly said, 'yea, but you can't actually see the rings'. He said something like, "sure, can't everybody".

Well, that did it for me. Geeze, I had been aiming at a big red blotch inside another red blotch. I put it away. So have a lot of others.

I have nothing against HBR. But, the number of shooters who have simply said "no" should have gotten every bodies attention long time ago. But then it is probably a Regional Thing.

In a couple of weeks, Tomball will host the Texas State and Gulf Coast Region HBR Championships on two separate days. If we loose money again this year, due to lack or participation, it will probably be the last time we host the Match.

Some of us are thinking about having a unregistered "shoot along" with our Varmint for Score Rifles, kinda help the club break even. We will charge about $25 a day for those that want to come out. No trophys, just "bragging rights".........jackie

Al Nyhus
08-14-2009, 08:42 PM
For those shooting multiple guns in the TWO GUN CASH BASH, you'll need to designate which 6 Power and which Varmint gun you'll be using to accumulate points. For example, if you're shooting two 6 Power guns and two Varmint guns, you can enter twice and just designate which 'set' of guns go together for each Two Gun score.

Thanks! -Al

Bob Kingsbury
08-14-2009, 09:10 PM
IMO, most people can hold center with a 6X scope on a score tgt. When
your gun doesn't print dead center and when you must hold off, its all guess
work. That certainly favors young eyes. The attraction in VFS is, everyone
has a gun they can compete with.

Al Nyhus
08-25-2009, 09:36 PM
Just a reminder about the TWO GUN CASH BASH at next weeks IBS Score Nationals. All interested shooters can see me Monday at the range and get signed up.

Good shootin'. :) -Al