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chuck3721
08-08-2009, 02:07 AM
ok i been wanting to build a 1000 yard gun for sometime we final got a new range that has a 1000 yard range so i'm not sure what caliber to go with as of right now i dont reload so its going to be bought ammo but i do want to get into reloading just not as of right now so i wanted to know the caliber that would work the best and the action that it should be build on thanks alot

Dana
08-08-2009, 06:24 AM
Why don't you try the 600/100yd forum!!!!

Charles E
08-08-2009, 07:13 AM
No, the F-class forum would be the best place, or maybe the factory/hybrid forum.

I know of no benchrest shooter who doesn't reload. It has been over 40 years since I bought factory ammo in anything other than .22 rimfire. I'd be hard-pressed to make any recommendations about "benchrest minus reloading," and I think that's true for 99.95 percent of the people who actually shoot benchrest. With the "no reloading" component in the question, our opinions aren't as good as someone who is closer to the real situation.

Cheechako
08-08-2009, 11:41 AM
Chuck

If you don't handload (that's an uppity word for reload), you will probably need to be looking at the 308 Winchester. It has 1000 yard capability and there are factory Match quality cartridges available at reasonable prices. It's the cartridge that many non-Benchrest non-reload competitors use. It will serve you well at any distance from 100 to 1000 yards. A 308 always has a reasonable re-sale value also.

Don't let anyone talk you into lesser cartridges, and definitely not the "Short Magnums" and such. You'll only regret it.

JMHO

Ray

missloumudcat
08-08-2009, 01:56 PM
I had Pac-Nor rebarrel a 22-250 I had with a 28 inch barrel twist to handle 123 scenars. I HIGHLY suggest 260 and the 123 Lapua scenars. Bucks wind and makes it out to 1000 easy just under 30 MOA. Mine pushes 2,870 fps at muzzle, stays supersonic out to 1,250 yards.

Just got back fom shooting in south Tx in 20-25 mph winds and it only pushed the bullet 5-feet at 1000. Nailing 12inch x 18inch plates, but I was driving the gun correctly. Basically no wind affect at all until I got past 400.

It is a great caliber for just shooting. Certain tourneys have certain rules, but for hobby shooting like I do my 260 Rem. Hardly any recoil so you can maitain your downrange sight picture. HSM loads this stuff factory, a case of 123 grain scenars (chrono'd above) for just over $600 a case. Easily available ammo, great caliber, that is what I woudl do.

If you want to eventually build up to a mile, jump all over that 7wsm with 175SMKs. But baby steps first, like I am doing, and go with that 260 Rem. You will be pleasantly surprised.

Mudcat

Cheechako
08-08-2009, 03:19 PM
mudcat

Chuck does not handload. Is the 260 available in factory Match cartridges?

Ray

Charles E
08-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Just got back fom shooting in south Tx in 20-25 mph winds and it only pushed the bullet 5-feet at 1000. Nailing 12inch x 18inch plates, but I was driving the gun correctly. Basically no wind affect at all until I got past 400.Must have been a 20 mph headwind.


If you want to eventually build up to a mile, jump all over that 7wsm with 175SMKs.Interesting. There was a thread on the 1000 yard benchrest forum where the experienced shooters didn't have particularly good feelings about the 7wsm WSM. Probably just more benchrest shooter BS, right?

Cheechako
08-08-2009, 06:29 PM
Man, I knew I was shooting the wrong cartridge at 1000 yards. I need to get one of those 260s.:rolleyes:

With a 20mph wind, mine will be blown 4.0 MOA at 400 yards and a whopping 12.1 MOA at 1000.:mad:

Ray

Hornetfan
08-09-2009, 03:52 PM
308 with factory Fed Gold metal match work very well. 260 would be a close
2nd. #1 if you reloaded.

skeetlee
08-09-2009, 05:07 PM
This is very simple!! 6.5 creedmoor is the chambering you seek. Lots of longrange guys are shooting it with great sucsess. Factory ammo is available and it shoots quite well. Go to creedmoor sports and check it out. I really dont see any other option for you. I had one and wish i still did!! Lee

Charles E
08-09-2009, 07:30 PM
Skeet Lee: Your recommendations on how someone else should spend their money comes from your long experience shooting 1,000 yard competition, right?

* * *

Chuck: Cheechako and Lynn are experience 1,000 yard competition shooters.

Before spending money to build/purchase a rifle, go to a couple of matches, particularly in the form of the sport that is closest to what you want to shoot -- benchrest, F-class, highpower, whatever. Even if you want a just-for-fun rifle, go to a couple of matches, unless $2,000+ is pocket change for you.

chuck3721
08-10-2009, 12:59 AM
ok so i been looking around and i think i'm going to start to reload so what chamber do i seek that will not cost a arm and a leg. so if u could help me find the right caliber that i should be shooting at 1000 yards and will be using a rem action a clone one not sure which one to do with but going with the css tubegun so thanks for any input u can help me with

ok i bee4n looking at the 6.5mm i dont like that it wears the barrel out so fast i would like to have a bullet that does not wear it out as fast thanks for your help or do u think the 6.5mm will make me more happy with that than other calibers and worth the money just to replace the barrel when its needed???

milanuk
08-10-2009, 11:48 AM
so if u could help me find the right caliber that i should be shooting at 1000 yards


Chuck,

It seems like you want someone to just give you a turn-key one-size-fits-all answer.(Hard to tell, really. Try using normal capitalization, punctuation, etc. to help us understand you better) The problem is, and I believe Charles already pointed out, what is 'best' for one particular competitive venue is not necessarily even legal for use in another. If you want to compete in no-holds-barred 1k yard benchrest competition, then the whole landscape of what is popular and winning matches is very different than what would be appropriate if you are looking at say, Palma or F-Class. The rules for each sport are different, and the calibers allowed are different.

If you are just starting out, which it sounds like you are, my advice is simple: Go watch some matches first, or at least take a look on-line at the various competition types and get some idea what you want to do *first* before making any decisions or spending any money. Tell us where you are located (usually a good idea to be courteous and fill out that part of your user profile on any forum so people have some idea what locale you are in to begin with) and someone can probably point you in the right direction to find different kinds of matches in your area. You might even get lucky and be able to hook up with someone who might help you out and maybe let you try their rifle out.

If you aren't willing to do that... my advice would be to get a .308 Winchester. Probably a Savage ;) Reason being that if you don't handload, you can still buy ammunition that will shoot acceptably at distance (bearing in mind that 'acceptably' has a wide variety of interpretations). As you do start handloading, the .308 is pretty well mapped out - and very easy to get to shoot well, despite any initial blunders a new reloader may make (and we all have). The barrel will last a good long while (3000rds minimum, more like 4-5k +) so you can spend more time shooting and less time worrying about whether your barrel is going south on you. Once you've been shooting that a while, you'll hopefully be better able to define what it is you want to do - and with any luck along the way, you might even learn a thing or two about wind reading ;) If you were intending on getting straight into competitive Benchrest or other forms of long-range competition, my answer might be somewhat different. As it is... it sounds like you need to figure out what you want to do first, and even then, you can't go very far wrong with a .308 Winchester of some sort in the gun safe ;)

Monte

Cheechako
08-10-2009, 05:38 PM
Chuck

Listen to Monte. He is one of the better shooters you'll find today. A lot of fake-wood trophies to prove it.

Lynn

I'm gonna have to let you shoot my PPC in a match. There is no better feeling than kicking butt with one. Almost better than sex. Well, OK, not even close, but it feels really good.

I'd second your suggestion that Chuck go with a 300 Win Mag except that he'd be handicapped at any distance other than 1000 yards.

Ray

chuck3721
08-10-2009, 05:59 PM
ok thanks for your help alot i going to change the profile i thought i did that right away but i live in mandan nd thanks for all the help and i been looking into reloading my self and i think i'm going start doing it sounds like alot of fun to be shooting your own bullets i do like the 308 6mm and the 6.5mm not sure and is the casing of a 308 and 6mm the same ?? been reading hornady reloading handbook lol trying to learn as much as i can before i buy stuff thanks for all the help

sharpshooter
08-10-2009, 11:28 PM
Buy a .223 and some reloading equipment. When you can hit small targets at 300 yds and have short range mastered, it will then be time to move up to long range. Mastering short range and reloading skills will be a solid stepping stone to long range. When you get to this stage, you won't worry about barrel life, ammo and equipment costs.

chuck3721
08-11-2009, 12:21 AM
i know what u mean but do 308 and 6mm have the same casing?? 6mm br?? i was reading thought my hornady handbook and it said they were the same just wanted to see if it is true??

switchbarrel
08-11-2009, 02:22 AM
i know what u mean but do 308 and 6mm have the same casing?? 6mm br?? i was reading thought my hornady handbook and it said they were the same just wanted to see if it is true??

The .308 and the 6mm BR do have the same case head diameter. Both cartridges use the .473" dia. bolt face (as do many other rounds, should you decide to build a "switchbarrel" rifle or just decide to change calibers down the road).

-Rick

chuck3721
08-11-2009, 11:42 AM
so if i got a 308 and all this i could make it into a switch barrel to the 6mm br so that would be nice so i do mult different shooting with the same gun is switch barrels hard?? i going to get a viper action and a tube gun set up not sure which brand yet?

missloumudcat
08-11-2009, 07:32 PM
I kinda hate giving up my secret stash, but I gt my ammo from HSM out of Montana, 123 grain scenars loaded at 2,870 (chrono'd). I picked up FOUR cases last year. All of it shoots well out of my gun. Pac-nor barrel with propoer twist to work the 123 well.

Charles E
08-11-2009, 08:25 PM
Mudcat: In your post #5 on this thread, you said:


Just got back fom shooting in south Tx in 20-25 mph winds and it only pushed the bullet 5-feet at 1000. Nailing 12inch x 18inch plates, but I was driving the gun correctly. Basically no wind affect at all until I got past 400.

I went ahead and ran the numbers, using the published B.C. of the 123 Scenar of .542, which seems a trifle optimistic. But never mind. With that B.C. and a MV of 2,870, in a 20 mph wind, drift at 400 yards (crosswind) is 20 inches, or 1.66 feet. Drift at 1,000 yards is 153.5 inches, or 12.79 feet.

A fair difference from the your original claim.

chuck3721
08-12-2009, 01:06 AM
ok i want to get a gun that will be shooting 308 bullets thought that would be the best bullet to learn how to reload with and what not but what custom action should i go with i was thinking viper i want to use a tube gun stock i was i was not sure which brand to go with for the action and tubegun if u could help with any of my questions thanks

missloumudcat
08-12-2009, 07:17 AM
you can run your numbers all day long. It is what it was. NF Ballsitic Calc put it at 141-inches. My buddy was shooting a 308 and he was 15-feet out. I was only 5-ft with my 260. We were shooting off the tower at RO in a PR1 class.

missloumudcat
08-12-2009, 07:37 AM
we did not have flags out every 100 yards, we were judging wind at tower (which was gust 20-25mph), reading mirage at 1000, and holding off target for adjustment, tactical applications, not dailing in the DOPE.

milanuk
08-12-2009, 08:55 AM
Ah. The infamous Rifles Only... explains a lot.

Sorry, a .260 on its best day doesn't shoot 1/3 the wind of a .308 load. I'm guessing I've put enough .308 rounds down range, alongside people shooting calibers that shoot hotter and flatter and use less wind than a .260 (as well as having a .260, 6.5-284, 6-6.5x47L myself at one point or another)... and I throw the B.S. flag on that, plain and simple. .260 is a good all around round, no argument here, but it ain't magic.

missloumudcat
08-12-2009, 09:54 AM
We can agree to disagree and that is OK and I actually welcome it. It would be a boring work if everyone nodded and never disagreed. 308 was 12.5 feet (my mistake), so it was just under half differnce, though that is neither here nor there in our disagreement.

I was behind the trigger holding 5-feet right and banging steel consistently at a dime regardless. Ballistic programs assumme constant wind gust, true conditions that is not hardly the case.

What did you mean by infamous RO? I had a wonderful expereice and will go back.

MC

chuck3721
08-12-2009, 11:47 AM
ok its going to be a 308 and using a Eliseo Tubegun Stock not sure if i should go r5 r1 or rt 10 which type of stock will be the best for a 308 and i thinking a viper clone 700 action and jewel trigger and i'm not sure which barrel brand to go with for the 308

missloumudcat
08-12-2009, 07:46 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136656033

Charles E
08-12-2009, 08:00 PM
mudcat:

There is a classified section on BR Central. Those who host the site require, somewhat reasonably, that if you want to sell something, you are suppose to post it there. It is not considered all right to come on this forum and post items you have for sale on another site.

That's official. Unofficially, I don't much care for people coming onto our site and recommending something most of us in benchrest would consider inappropriate to a new shooter. The reason I gave you a hard time is because of the new shooter aspect. You're entitled to your opinion, even to express it. It gets dicey when, on Benchrest Central, your advice is (1) contrary to the experience of most of us, and (2) comes from someone who doesn't shoot benchrest.

Not that benchrest is the only appropriate point of view. But that is what this forum is about. We benchresters are a small group. If our interests and yours don't run common, that's OK, we'll all survive.

jackie schmidt
08-12-2009, 08:29 PM
I am not a long range shooter, but wouldn't one of those Savage F-Class or Match Rifles in 308, with Federal Match Ammo, fit the originol posters bill.

Come on, guys, He doesn't even handload. ...........jackie

Charles E
08-13-2009, 06:39 AM
I'd second what Lynn said. I didn't realize there was a Factory 6-BR with an 8-twist barrel, or factory ammunition. I'm not particularly a 6 BR fan, but I've been beaten by them often enough to respect what they're capable of. The chambering is good enough so that results will depend on individual components -- barrels, bullets, etc.

Moreover, a 6 BR with 100 or so grain bullets can be more or less competitive at all distances. No, a factory rifle and factory ammunition isn't going to win many short-range benchrest matchs, but when the winds up at 200 yards, an exceptional barrel with good bullets might win a short-range BR match. (Ask R.G. Robinett or Ferris Pindell.) And at 1,000 the same chambering with an exceptional barrel will win consistently.

When you find yourself saying that the variables are barrels & bullets, you've gotten yourself into benchrest territory. As I said, I didn't know there was a suitable Factory rifle/ammunition in 6 BR.

milanuk
08-13-2009, 08:24 AM
Charles,

Oddly enough, I knew about the Savage 6mm BRs, but for some reason I tend to think of them as a 600yd rig even though I've shot one out to 1k before. Dunno why, even that one (which ran really slow, several years back) shot inside a .308 - not by much, but it did nonetheless. Barrel life should be nearly as good as a .308, ammo cost once he starts handloading should be cheaper than a .308, and recoil is nil.

Savage makes a Long Range Precision Varminter with a 26" barrel in both right-bolt left port and 'dual port', 'F-Class' model with a right bolt right port action and 30" barrel, and their 'Benchrest' model in 'dual port' with a 30" barrel. The one gotcha to be careful of when ordering is it is possible to get the LRPV with a 1-12" twist for varmint bullets instead of a 1-8".

The only thing I'd suggest on a Savage is you may want to send the bolt off to Gre-Tan to get the factory firing pin hole bushed - by default they come a little on the big side and tend to exhibit cratered primers even on moderate loads. Greg usually has the bolt back to you inside a week, so its a relatively quick and painless 'upgrade'.

I've shot a couple boxes of the Lapua 6mm BR ammo loaded with 105 Scenars before - through a custom 40X barrelled in 6BR - primarily as a reference load. The ammo shot very, very well. Don't have any test targets or info left from then, but I'd say it wouldn't disappoint someone who doesn't handload - and might frustrate some who do!

jackie schmidt
08-13-2009, 09:15 AM
I have shot the Factory Lapua 6BR 105 Scenar in a 1-8 twist, and you are right, it shoots quite well.

To do it, I took the time to make a little fixture that allowed me to true the loaded round up, and turn enough off of the cases to shoot in my .269 neck.

I think the velocity was in the 2800 range out of a 28 inch barrel.

The only thing I would disagree with is barrel life. I doubt there is any way a 6BR will have anywhere near the barrel life as a 308. But, the BC of the 105 6mm is pretty good. If the conditions warrant simply dumping as many shot down range as possible in a given condition, the 6mm should beat the 308.

I have sort of become a fan of the Savage 308's. There have been a couple of shooters use them in our 100 yard club matches, and the accuracy is about as good as one could expect from a mass produced Factory Offerring............jackie

missloumudcat
08-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Thanks

chuck3721
08-13-2009, 01:56 PM
i'm going to be using the 308 caliber and later going to maybe put a switch barrel in it to a 6mm bullet size and i was thinking a diamandback action by viper actions or http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/products.php?item=2 piemier action not sure yet i want it super smooth actions and i'm not sure for the Eliseo Tube Gun Stock the R1 single shot was going try do R5 but they dont make it for the 308 i'm doing the 308 because ppl say it is easyer to learn how to reload with them going with a jewell trigger and the barrel i thinking a Krieger Barrels i would like to get the barrel in a 30 in barrel and if u guys could help me with any of it thanks

milanuk
08-13-2009, 04:25 PM
Well, the good news is you probably won't 'out-grow' that gun any time soon. Personally I think its a bit silly to throw that kind of money at a gun when you don't even reload yet, but its your $$$ to spend. Enjoy!