View Full Version : help

08-05-2009, 02:30 PM
My gun will shoot ones all the time as long as I shoot groups. But when I shoot across and down the poa changes I dont understand it is a one holer when usbr target low 240s 2300 on the other best

08-05-2009, 02:47 PM
Pay more attention to the setup of the front and rear rest-bag.Make sure they are true to eachother and the target
Or maybe the rest is an inferior one.This is what I experienced with my previous.I now have a high end one and results have had a boost of abut 5 points on a br 50 target.

If you shoot one holer groups it almost can be nothing more then the rest in my opinion.

08-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Thanks that is a thought it is a one holer

alan k
08-05-2009, 06:24 PM
I will add my vote to your front rest if it swivels or turns from target to target. That is why the top end rests move horizontal. Then at each target slide your rifle in and out of battery to make sure the rear bag is in line. Also, if the bench top is not level and you level the front rest, do the same to the rear bag.

Al Kunard

08-05-2009, 07:28 PM
There is not a rimfire in existence that will shoot one-hole groups on a consistent basis!!!

Even if you disregard shooting groups in the .1’s and define a one-hole group as 0.224”….there are still no rimfires that will shoot one-hole groups consistently.

If there were, then perfect scores would be so common place we’d have to shrink our targets because rifles capable of shooting perfect scores only need to group in the 0.255” to 0.474” range for perfect scores (X counts not factored in) on the ARA, PSL, IR 50/50, and USBR targets.

You can’t blame the wind or a less than perfect bag set-up either because many of the matches are held indoors or with rests that virtually eliminate any shooter error.

Well, what the hell is the problem then?….you ask.
The problem lies with the very normal growth in the size of a group with additional shots fired. Just because you may have a rifle that shoots in the .1’s with a series of 3 or 5 shot groups, doesn’t mean it will place 10 or more into that same size. In fact, if it did, it would be an anomaly.
It also doesn’t necessarily mean your POI is changing as you move across the target because the rifle may be simply building data points with each shot fired on its way to its “TRUE” POI.


PS I agree with the comments about bag handling…..it might be a factor because if you’re shooting 5 shot groups in the mid .1” on a consistent basis then high 240’s on the USBR target should be easily achievable (0.324” group = 250 ?X).

08-05-2009, 07:42 PM
Then how do you read that into the bottom line. So you say if I keep shooting 20 shots it will grow to .400 or bigger

08-05-2009, 08:00 PM
maybe it's one RAGGED hole:)

08-05-2009, 08:31 PM
Then how do you read that into the bottom line. So you say if I keep shooting 20 shots it will grow to .400 or bigger

I can’t tell you exactly how large your 25 shot group would be, but I could make an educated estimate of 25 shot group averages based on the exact sizes and the variability of those sizes from say a series of your 5 shot groups.

It would be far easier for you to simply shoot a few 25 shot groups and measure how large they are relative to your smaller group averages. You could also superimpose those groups over one of your targets and see what affect it would have on your scores. If the scores average higher, then maybe the suggestions made about your bags need to be heeded. If the scores would be lower, then maybe another variable is involved or it’s just random circumstances.

None of this is simple and there will most likely be a great deal of uncertainties that have to be factored in because of small sample sizes. You may also decide I’m full of "it" based on what others have to say. :D


08-05-2009, 08:33 PM
maybe it's one RAGGED hole:)

I want you to give me the exact dimensions of a "ragged hole". :eek::D;)

08-05-2009, 08:34 PM
Here is a classic case of what they are talking about. Not world class groups but if I use a photoshop type tool and overlay the five 5 shot groups, all fired at the same aiming point, the 25 shot group is almost twice the size of the best 5 shot group.

It is true, it's easier to shoot groups than it is to shoot for score.

08-05-2009, 08:58 PM
That is some good info I now understand seeing the overlay and I would never think any info was full of it I am gratful for the info Ive alwas been a good shot but this rem fire br can get the best of a person.And Im new to it so the help is wha a newbe needs