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stenger
07-30-2009, 01:56 PM
i saw a link on this site, where someone was making modified cases for all calibers to measure seating depth, but i cant find the link now. does anyone have the web address. its not hornady or stoney point!

Jim Mullican
07-30-2009, 02:31 PM
Check with sinclair, at one time they sold a plug (dummy bullet) that would plug into a shortned case. Ive used one for a 222.

HovisKM
07-30-2009, 02:46 PM
Jim,

What your talking about is a case trim to length measuring device. He wants the modified cases for stoney point.

I do not recommend the stoney point tool unless you fireform a case a couple of times and drill and tap it yourself. I did this for a while but it's just not as good as the old fashion way of polishing a bullet, seating it and chamber looking for land marks. That way works so much faster, accurate and better.

Hovis

Big Al
07-30-2009, 06:45 PM
A strong +1 with that last post. The Stony Point offered one thing only, slow to use tooling that gave no better results.

mike in co
07-30-2009, 09:26 PM
shall we hash over thi sagain , or tell him to go do a search.....

a tool is only as good as the user.....i can use a stoney point type tool quite well. just use my cases, instead of thiers.

mike in co

Mike Swartz
07-30-2009, 10:14 PM
Buy the size case you intend to use.Size it in your FL sizer to the size you want. Buy a 5/16-36 tap from MSC and buy a 9/32 drill at the same time.Drill the primer flash hole, yap through with the 5/16-36 tay and screw on the SP/Hornady extention and have at if.Downside...with a little practice you can make this thing read anything you like.

Mike Swartz

chillippr
07-31-2009, 09:15 AM
Take a new case, run it through your full length die, prep as needed for your chamber and trim to proper length to avoid any interference. Get out the Dremel, mount their thin cut off wheel, cut straight down one (or both sides) of the neck to the shoulder junction and clean up the cut inside and out. Seat your bullet of choicejust enough to hold in the case neck then load it in the chamber and close the bolt. Carefully remove the round and measure the cartridge base to bullet ogive dimension - I use a Stoney Point set-up on my calipers. Repeat ten times and average the dimensions (there should be very little variance). Use the average dimension as the baseline for all seating changes for that that particular bullet lot.

HovisKM
07-31-2009, 10:31 AM
A stoney point (or similiar of OAL gauge) piece of equipment is the best thing in the world............for complicating the simple.

Hovis

mike in co
07-31-2009, 04:20 PM
its strange...i know we have been through this before, and i will reply everytime someone( that cannot use precise tools) CLAIMS it does not work.
i can use one , i can repeat readings........
it is only as precise as the USER.
go look at the post 2 up....it claims the jam method is great....just take TEN readings, and then AVERAGE them.....great accuracy.
mike in co

Kent Harshman
07-31-2009, 05:55 PM
...please help me out...I'm very confused. Your last post says, and I quote, "i will reply everytime someone( that cannot use precise tools) CLAIMS it does not work."
Who said that it "does not work"? In the interest of helping "stenger" keep things as simple as possible and spend his money wisely, I see 2 guys (Kevin Hovis, aka "HovisKM" and "Big Al"...real name unknown to me) who are simply sharing with "stenger" that there is nothing that he can do with the assortment of seating depth tools on the market today that he can't do with his own cases, bullets and a little bit of 0000 steel wool; HOWEVER..., in no way shape or form do either of them say that the assorted seating depth tools won't work...nor do either of them say anything that indicates that they cannot use precision measuring tools. Would you please explain to me what I'm missing that warrants your post?...

mike in co
07-31-2009, 08:30 PM
this is atleast the second, maybe third thread, where the ability to use a stoney type tool has been said to be less precise, slower, more complicated than "the smoke the bullet/jam into the lands" method.

the difference is, if you read above: one claims "you can make it read anything"( that would be claimin git does not work(, one cliams it "complicates the simple", one cliams the smoke( and mirrors) only requires TEN readings, and then you AVERAGE to get the reults.

the smoke and mirror method is imprecise. there is visual of the witdh and lenght of the "MARKS"....no precise measurement.

with a modified case fire formed in my chamber, and my stoney point tools , i can take repeatable measurements to .001, yet smoke and mirror proponents CLAIM it cannot be done. it can be done, i do it is repeatable. smoke and mirrors is not precision, not is it repeatable.

what i do not like about this subject, is the lemming responses by people unwilling/incapable of learning precision measurement.
they learned one way, and by gawd ITS THE ONLY WAY.....
never allow any one to deviate from THE WAY.

mike in co

Bob Kingsbury
07-31-2009, 10:59 PM
If it were a precise method, you would not need to average your measurements.

mike in co
08-01-2009, 07:36 AM
If it were a precise method, you would not need to average your measurements.

THANK YOU BOB!!!!.except the statement is about the smoke and jam method, not the stoney point method...BUT YOU ARE SO RIGHT!


go reread...that is a quote from a smoke and jam shooter...by chillippr, not about or by stoney point touchy/feely shooter

i was pointing out how poor the smoke and jam method is...using an AVERAGE...instead of an actual reading...an average because he cannot get consistant readings.

mike in co

HovisKM
08-01-2009, 03:49 PM
Well, I guess if I have an opinion then I must not know what I'm talking about....can't use precise instruments....

I can say one thing and this is from 13 years of real benchrest. I have made custom tools that takes overall length measurements...I also own a stoney point. Neither have been used for the last ten years...why...it's fast and more accurate to use the the fireformed case method, polished bullet and jam than anything else. I can and have proved it to over a dozen people over the last few years.

Now, mike in co, if you actually traveled and shot benchrest...then I would be happy to show my method to someone who has never seen either and you show yours and see what his opinion would be. Actually, we could just take a poll of maybe 50-100 benchrest shooters who have actually tried all these methods and see what the opinion is.

I used to have a lot of respect for you but you have just become a keyboard expert to me.

Hovis

Big Al
08-01-2009, 04:14 PM
...please help me out...I'm very confused. Your last post says, and I quote, "i will reply everytime someone( that cannot use precise tools) CLAIMS it does not work."
Who said that it "does not work"? In the interest of helping "stenger" keep things as simple as possible and spend his money wisely, I see 2 guys (Kevin Hovis, aka "HovisKM" and "Big Al"...real name unknown to me) who are simply sharing with "stenger" that there is nothing that he can do with the assortment of seating depth tools on the market today that he can't do with his own cases, bullets and a little bit of 0000 steel wool; HOWEVER..., in no way shape or form do either of them say that the assorted seating depth tools won't work...nor do either of them say anything that indicates that they cannot use precision measuring tools. Would you please explain to me what I'm missing that warrants your post?...



Real name Al, alot of folks have called me Big Al for about 40+ years. I kinda got used to it. A nickname I was given in good old Vietnam days. :D

Butch Lambert
08-01-2009, 04:15 PM
I gave away my Stoney Point. I have a 5/16-36 tap and used my fireformed brass. I feel much better using another method. I will not take the time to type it with 2 fingers. I won't bore you. I will just do it my way.
Butch

Big Al
08-01-2009, 04:31 PM
This smoke and jam ( I use a black magic marker) method needs to take and average.



So how does the use of a Stoney Point make for known variations in ogive difference with in the same box? One reading from one bullet?

I still like the use of hard jam into the lands by seating the bullet into the lands better. I have always fire formed brass this way. I do believe I get as good if not as good results with this method as anyone does.

mike in co
08-01-2009, 10:22 PM
so because i do not travel, i am not a benchrest shooter. because i do not travel, and thus am not a benchrest shooter, i cannot take precise measurements.....ok i see.


i do shoot, i do not travel, i do take precise measurements.

thanks you very much

mike in co.

mike in co
08-01-2009, 10:27 PM
This smoke and jam ( I use a black magic marker) method needs to take and average.



So how does the use of a Stoney Point make for known variations in ogive difference with in the same box? One reading from one bullet?

I still like the use of hard jam into the lands by seating the bullet into the lands better. I have always fire formed brass this way. I do believe I get as good if not as good results with this method as anyone does.



i do not know, HOW DOES THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS METHOD DEAL WITH IT ??
(me if i had an issue with bullets i do some measuring, precise measuring that is.)

...sorry al, not a good comparision
hovis claims to make a tool maybe that was what th eguy was looking for all along......hovis ??
mike in co......

HovisKM
08-02-2009, 01:38 PM
Yes, I made a tool that was just a better mouse trap than the stoney point...but not by much. Still it's a waste of time. Also, you can not get true jam with a stoney point....it's impossible (or with the tool I made).

Also, mike, I never said you could not make precise measurements....that's what you said about me and you have no idea what I have or have not done.

This has become a worthless thread....my appoligies to the original poster.

Hovis

mike in co
08-02-2009, 05:43 PM
Yes, I made a tool that was just a better mouse trap than the stoney point...but not by much. Still it's a waste of time. Also, you can not get true jam with a stoney point....it's impossible (or with the tool I made).

Also, mike, I never said you could not make precise measurements....that's what you said about me and you have no idea what I have or have not done.

This has become a worthless thread....my appoligies to the original poster.

Hovis
thanks hovis, i agree,
mike in co