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View Full Version : New NBRSA Rule, Please Read



Mike Jennings
07-27-2009, 09:57 AM
Fellow NBRSA Members,

Based on a recent experience, I am considering proposing a new rule but first wanted to get input from other NBRSA members.

First the background. About a week ago, I attended the first half of the SE Region championships. The regional championships typically are the opportunities our Director uses to hold regional meetings during which items of interest and importance are discussed and voted on. These meetings are held at the firing line and take place after the 100 yard stage while the target crew is moving and setting up the target frames. The Director takes a central position and the meeting participants spread out up and down the line. I don't know for sure but presume other regions hold similar meetings for the above reasons.

Unfortunately for several of us attending the meeting, one of the match attendees not only decided that he was not going to participate but also decided, with apparent indifference, that it was a good time to set flags. As I'm sure you can imagine, this flag-setting banter was a major distraction, especially for those of us closest to it, and to say the least made it very difficult to hear the comments of the Director and members. Finally, one of the members sitting next to me turned and shouted to this person to please stop. Unfortunately, more bad judgment prevailed and this person not only didn't acknowledge the request, but continued to set flags. At that point it appeared that nothing short of a "physical" approach - a temptation to be sure - would stop the distraction so, right or wrong, we just took it. Because of his focus on the meeting and his position on the firing line, I believe our Director did not fully realize how big of a distraction this really was to some of us. If he did, I feel certain he, or any other Director, would appreciate something meaningful to bring to bear.

I have been thinking about this since then and it seems to me that the Directors and those of us who care enough to attend these meetings should not have to face such disrespect and lack of common courtesy without a specific and meaningful rule to address it. This person not only showed blatant disrespect for the Director and meeting attendees but also for the very process itself.

Therefore, as much as I hate to acknowledge that there are people (or at least one person) like this among us, I feel it would be appropriate to propose a new rule that would essentially state that anyone who knowingly shows disrespect and causes this type of disruption/distraction to a regional meeting be given one warning by the Director to cease and desist and if they do not, their NBRSA membership would be revoked.

I look forward to your comments on this proposed rule, the suggested penalty and the duration of the penalty.

Thanks,
Mike Jennings

AJ300MAG
07-27-2009, 10:22 AM
The firing line isn't the proper place to hold meetings.

YMMV.

goodgrouper
07-27-2009, 10:45 AM
I was thinking "why are they holding a meeting on the firing line" before I even finished reading the whole post. Since there is only a short period of time to get your flags set, when it's time to do it, I get busy. The process is bound to be somewhat noisy so I would think someone holding a meeting would choose a different place. Perhaps the parking lot? Or a early morning meeting?

JerrySharrett
07-27-2009, 11:10 AM
The firing line isn't the proper place to hold meetings.

YMMV.
I agree the firing line is not the place for a meeting, but, at a small range like Unaka, where else. Seats for the attendees and a PA system, where else?

As to the guy setting flags, he is a first year NBRSA member and is a lot like myself, unless I have a dog in the fight, missing a meeting is not a big deal.

At a Regional meeting like this probably less than 30% of the NBRSA members of that region are even present.

If NBRSA members had a direct vote like members in the IBS do then meetings might mean more. We, as NBRSA members, can submit a rule change, etc, pass it at the Regional meeting, then that Regional Director is not obligated anyway. Sounds just like our US Congress doesn't it?

The main thing a meeting like this does, IMO, is gives the Regional Director a quick pulse reading, but not much more.

Mike Jennings
07-27-2009, 12:36 PM
Thanks to those who have replied so far. Per Jerry's response, on the small ranges the firing line is one of the few practical places to have a large meeting. Perhaps an early meeting would be an alternative and would be a good subject for discussion. However, in this case there was plenty of time after the meeting to set flags and make an early dinner. Also the point was not to suggest that folks should attend the meetings but that if a meeting is ongoing, people should respect that. One more point, the flag setter may have been a new member, but the person causing the disturbance by directing the flag setting has been a NBRSA member for many years.

Mike Jennings

bob harrison
07-27-2009, 03:28 PM
The proposed rule is inappropriate. Holding the described a meeting, on the firing line and between yardages, does not seem the proper time and place for such a meeting. If you, or your director, wants to hold a non-safety meeting, than hold it either after the conclusion of the days shooting, or prior to starting the match.

The time between yardages is best spent in cleaning rifles, loading ammo, and resetting wind flags. After all that, if any time is left then it is probably time to eat lunch.

Bob H.

jackie schmidt
07-27-2009, 07:24 PM
In the Gulf Coast Region, we hold our Region Meetings at the firing line, everybody just sort of gathers around, sits on benches, or finds a stool.

Seems like a logical place, since it has a PA system, and there is no "club house".

I have been to a SE Region meeting when I went over to one of their shoots. That seems to be the exact thing they did.

As for the activity of the shooters mentioned, just because someone could care less about the Regions, and the Sanctioning Bodies Business, does not give them reason to disrupt those that do. The least the shooter could have done was set his flags in silence.

I would like to believe that we as a Organization would not have to pass a "rule" dictating common courtesy. I would like to believe that Benchrest is made up of Gentlemen, who respect the moment and at least recognize the tenants of common coutesy.

Maybe I am wishing for too much..........jackie

Don
07-27-2009, 08:10 PM
The proposed rule is inappropriate. Holding the described a meeting, on the firing line and between yardages, does not seem the proper time and place for such a meeting. If you, or your director, wants to hold a non-safety meeting, than hold it either after the conclusion of the days shooting, or prior to starting the match.

The time between yardages is best spent in cleaning rifles, loading ammo, and resetting wind flags. After all that, if any time is left then it is probably time to eat lunch.

Bob H.

Agreed, hold the meeting at the end of the awards presentation, when and where all the competitors are already gathered in a meeting setting without any pending distractions..............Don

Charles E
07-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Mike, it would seem to me we could handle this with a range rule rather than a national-level rule. If the rangemaster says so, that's the way it is. I believe there is that latitude in NBRSA. If not, it could a national level rule change to allow the rangemaster to make such a ruling.

Something simple: When a meeting is underway, if the meeting needs to be held on the firing line, the range is closed for all other activity. The usual penalty for ignoring the rangemaster is immediate disqualification.

For those of you who don't like the meetings on the firing line, consider that at a number of ranges in the SE region, the firing line is the only place. I'd note too that before a match (before 8:00 am) is a lousy time, and after a match, people are leaving, even day 1.

jackie schmidt
07-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Yeh, that would guarantee about two shooters sticking around.:D Most of us have to travel considerable distances, and be at work Monday Morning.

We have our Region Meeting on Saturday of a Two Day Event, but certainly not between yardage changes. It's at the end of the day.

In a way, this uncovers one of the dirty little secrets of Benchrest. There are a lot of shooters who want a place to shoot, but could give a flip about helping run the Organization that allows them to pursue the endevour........jackie

Don
07-27-2009, 10:00 PM
Yeh, that would guarantee about two shooters sticking around.:D Most of us have to travel considerable distances, and be at work Monday Morning.

We have our Region Meeting on Saturday of a Two Day Event, but certainly not between yardage changes. It's at the end of the day.

In a way, this uncovers one of the dirty little secrets of Benchrest. There are a lot of shooters who want a place to shoot, but could give a flip about helping run the Organization that allows them to pursue the endevour........jackie

The time that it takes to hold the Regional meeting, whether between yardage changes or at the end of tournament, is still the same amount of time, so would not change the time when someone made it home, for those that were interested in attending the Regional meeting and shooting the tournament. Maybe not such a bad idea, only having the most committed and dedicated shooters involved in the rules generation process.

I do know what you mean.

So the real issue is deciding which group of shooters has the greater needs/rights?;

-Group#1, that wants to get home as early as possible and therefore hold the Regional meeting during yardage changes thereby disrespecting the rights of shooters who would like to set flags, eat lunch, reload, and relax in the standard time alotted for yardage changes.

or

-Group#2, that wants to hold the Regional meeting at the end of the tournament, or any other time that does not interfere with the normal tournament activities, but, thereby disrespecting the rights of those that want to short cut the tournament process so that they can get home as early as possible.

jackie schmidt
07-27-2009, 10:15 PM
You left out the most logical time. At the end of shooting on the first day of the Two Gun Event. That is what we do. All we have to do on Saturday Night is sit around and shoot the bull, and go eat.

I doubt there is any Region that holds a Region Meeting at a one day event.......jackie

Dick Grosbier
07-28-2009, 05:58 AM
I am not an NBRSA member and have no bone in this discussion. However it seems to me a formal NBRSA rule would be overkill and one more piece of information in the rulebook that is not necessary for the average competitor to memorize . All that is needed is for the RO , or match director, or region director to say This is a mandantory meeting and no flag setting or other activities will happen at same time.

Then enforce if it becomes necessary, If you disobey the order of a range officer or match official you are, or at least should be subject to disqualification.

In other words use a little common sense but enforce it if needed.

One other thing the title of this thread should have been "Proposed new rule" it is not yet a new rule and I tend to doubt in its proposed format it will ever become one.

Just my 2 cents worth

Dick