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View Full Version : Why would one want a Bleiker action?



Keith23
06-25-2009, 03:23 PM
I saw on another thread people discussing building a new dream benchrest rifle and someone suggested a Bleiker action.

I've been to many rimfire matches in the UK, U.S. and Germany and have never seen one, nor have I read much about them. Perhaps they are so new they are just getting started.

Would someone be so kind to enlighten me to the details of why this would be a superior action for a benchrest rifle?

I didn't want to high jack the other thread so I started this one.

Peter Armstrong
06-25-2009, 03:53 PM
Keith,
As far as smallbore goes, the world’s highest ranked prone shooter has been using one for a couple of years and he’s not the only one. They are a very sweet little action a short bolt with dual front lockers, 6 o’clock firing pin.
They are expensive but for us a lot cheaper than importing a Calfee spec gun.

Peter

Keith23
06-25-2009, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the response.

I just googled Bleiker and found very little information.

Could you direct me to a website where I can find more info about the action?

steve b.
06-25-2009, 04:28 PM
Keith,

Alot of prone shooters wonder that openly. Bleiker has figured out that using custom barrels will give them a big advantage over other Olympic prone rifles (Lilja).

But, there are a few contenders in that ultra-expensive rifle class.

Anschutz has their F-27A Challenger rifle, which uses a single-shot straight pull action. They are said to have a "Select" Anschutz match barrel. I'm not sure what that means, but they do some extra effort at the factory to pick their barrels. This rifle has had some mixed reviews, and is built out of the AHG side of the family.

http://ahg.anschuetz-sport.com/index.php5?menu=54&sprache=1&seite=83&produktID=607

I have a pair of Eric Uptagrafft's new actions that have twin front lugs and a 6 o'clock FP. His new rifles will use Shilen 4R barrels and should be very good.

The down side to Bleiker is that if your rifle takes a dump, getting service and parts will be a bit of a trick. They had a recall on their centerfire rifles, but I don't know the outcome of that. I think their trigger group alone is running about $1000. Have fun replacing that!

I'm guessing that Peter is talking of Warren P. as the "top shooter." I think Matt Emmons with his Lilja Barreled Anschutz 2013 would have some interesting insight to this, as well as Raymond D. with his Feinwerkbau. There is also Aurthur A. with his Walther that is another great shooter (gold in Bejing). Many more as well.

But, Bleiker is seen at the very top level, they did very well in Munich at the World Cup event, but I would suggest that's a matter of barrels and not action design.

There is a big revolution underway in Olympic rifles, and I think Eric is on the right track with learning as much as he can about rimfire BR and using those ideas on his new rifle.

Here is a link: http://www.bleiker.ch/KleinkaliberSmallbore_3.html

Peter Armstrong
06-25-2009, 04:47 PM
Steve,

Got no idea how the prone rankings works, but Eley refers to Warren as the worlds top ranked prone shooter, and the fact he keeps wining world cup matches might have something to do with it.

But nice to hear there are some other good actions in the works, the equipment race never ends. But it is interesting that the record at the Eley test range is held by a factory 2700 Fienwerbau.

Peter

steve b.
06-25-2009, 04:54 PM
Peter,

Isn't the Bleiker a three lug action..?

Didn't know that about Eley's range record..

I have read some of Warren's stuff on this webpage;

http://www.tra.org.au/magazine/journal.html

and I think it's pretty interesting.

I didn't see his placing in the Athens event, but i see him in third at Bejing for Men's prone. As of now he leads in WC points for the ISSF.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/athens2004/shooting/results

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/SH/C93/SH0000000.shtml

It is good to see our American boy Matt giving him trouble at both events. Damn 2013 Anschutz...! :D

But, I don't think the magic is in the wand with the Bleiker by any means. It's my opinion that there is a vast difference between a shooter's role with a prone rifle versus a shooter's role with a Benchrest rifle.

Furhter, I think there is no prone rifle that will run with any tuned BR rifle, yet in the prone position, the shooter's ability can overcome alot of the difference. It's working backwards and putting the dialed in BR rifle into a prone stock, and then in the hands of a skilled shooter that "should" make a great combination.

Here is another link that shows their factory projected group size of 10mm ( roughly 0.40") edge to edge.

http://www.bleiker.ch/TechnikEngineering_8.html

It also shows the action, and I only see two lugs as well, but Eric was thinking it may have three. Not sure.

Peter Armstrong
06-25-2009, 05:03 PM
Steve,

It could be 3 lugs, there are a few of them here but I’ve never seen the bolt out, looks like 2 and the diagram of the action looks like 2 also. I’ll have a look at one on Sunday.

Peter

steve b.
06-25-2009, 05:32 PM
Put your BR rig in a G&E stock and let Warren give it a spin...


Hmmmm..

Hal
06-25-2009, 05:42 PM
In reading the bit about the Bleiker action it states it has" 3 lock nuts", (I'm guessing there was something lost in the translation) and meant to say 3 locking lugs.

Hal

Peter Armstrong
06-25-2009, 05:44 PM
Steve
Would be interesting to watch him shooting prone trying to feed a left port.
Prone shooters don’t know how easy they have it, the 10 ring is near twice the size. But when I have my BR flags out they realize just how much of the wind they can’t see, so maybe they need the bigger 10 ring.

Peter Armstrong
06-25-2009, 05:46 PM
In reading the bit about the Bleiker action it states it has" 3 lock nuts", (I'm guessing there was something lost in the translation) and meant to say 3 locking lugs.

Hal

Hal
If you are look at a drawing of 2 actions the one on the right with 3 lugs is a centerfire.

Peter

steve b.
06-25-2009, 05:48 PM
yeah, but on the left, I was wondering if there is a hidden lug on the back side.

anyhow, get that rifle built.

Sheldon, Mike, and I are working on Eric's rifle, and the Shilen barrel we slugged was very nice. While I'm not sold on the 6 o'clock FP issue, I really want to see this technology leap into prone.

Yeah, the left handed port would be a trick, but seriously, get Warren to give it a drive, even in your BR stock and see what he thinks. Eric shot one of the PSL's and did well with his own action. He has seen the light! Now, getting the rifle built right and into his hands.

It's gonna be a race to get these new "super rifles" built before 2012 London. Warren's tough no doubt, but he's gonna have to accept silver if we have our way!

Paul
06-25-2009, 07:06 PM
Here's something new, even more exotic than a Bleiker. The Männel smallbore rifles are made in Austria: http://www.maennel.at/shop/media/content/ASB_Flyer_en.pdf

Paul

steve b.
06-25-2009, 07:22 PM
Sweet Mother of Pearl..!

Pieter.45
06-26-2009, 06:54 AM
He isn't that exotic.He is a former Steyr engineer who started a factory himself.He also makes some nice pistol grips.It's a known name in the european match world.It's a bit like the Tesro - Walther story.

The rifle looks the part too.

Keith23
06-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Thanks guys for the info. It's good to know there are new developments taking place everywhere.

Getting back to my original question about why a Bleiker action would be superior for benchrest. The only thing they say about it on the website is " The action is unique in its repeating accuracy as it always calibrates the rim of the cartridge‘s case."

Now I don't know what they mean by that, but it sounds like they have developed a way for the action to change it's headspace by measuring the rim thickness of each round. If this is the case we know that does not improve accuracy. We went through the headspace thing back in the 90's with the Time Precision actions, and others.

l still don't know why this action would be an improvement over what we already have That are available at a much more affordable price.

Maybe we will have to wait for Eric's or the Meyer's actions to become available.

steve b.
06-26-2009, 07:35 PM
Keith,

It's not an advantage for rimfire benchrest, rather, it brings some problems to the table that are not there with the Hall or Turbo.

Bleiker's ( and others of that style ) stray from the norm for ergonomic issues that benefit the shooter, and hope they don't give up some accuracy or reliability in the process.

The way I look at it, there have been some monster scores already shot with Hall's, 40 X's, and Turbos. The current action designs can shoot 2500 ARA targets, 2500 PSL targets, and 250 RBA targets. So, going up from there is a bit of a trick. I can't remember if it's a Hall or Turbo that Joe agged over 2400 across 4 ARA cards. It's too many shots for that to be chance, so we are there with some rifles.

I look at the Anschutz 2013 that has so many odd features for the prone shooter to work with, but it's a real pain to dial in for a BR rifle. The 1900 actions are much easier and have performed on average much better in BR, both with custom barrels. So while the 2013 was an advancement in some areas, it was actually a step away from pure accuracy design.

Pieter.45
06-27-2009, 02:10 AM
True.That's why you don't see them that often.I have a 1913 that shoots like lightning.With the standard non selected barrel.Maybe I got lucky.

Peter Armstrong
06-30-2009, 06:07 PM
Steve,
There is a story on Warren testing at Eley in Target shooting magazine page 68 www.targetshooter.co.uk (http://www.targetshooter.co.uk) and there is a good photo of the front of the Bleiker bolt and only 2 lugs.

Peter

steve b.
06-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Thanks Peter.

Great photos of the rifle's bolt. Do you know how much room is around the bolt handle in the rear of the action?

Peter Armstrong
06-30-2009, 08:22 PM
Steve,

Not sure exactly what you mean.

Peter

steve b.
06-30-2009, 08:36 PM
No worries Peter,

I sent a note off to Bleiker. Gonna see what we can make happen.

s.