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Jeffreytooker
06-25-2009, 02:10 PM
I have just received my Redding 30 BR body die. The instructions say to adjust the die to touch the shell holder and size with body die. No other instructions. Per this list the instructions are to set the shoulder back .002". How does one adjust the die to do this and how does one measure the shoulder setback?

I have FF cases.

Thank you.

Jeffrey Tooker

Butch Lambert
06-25-2009, 03:46 PM
My body doesn't bump the shoulder.
Butch

eww1350
06-25-2009, 03:55 PM
Jeffery...I would adjust your die downward a little at a time and measure the shoulder to base length..and make sure you don't exceed .001 or .002...
If you body die wont thread down far enough to bump the shoulder...put it in a lathe and using a carbide lathe tool cut about .005" off of the base until you can bump the shoulder back .001+"
Make sure to polish off the base of the die with some 320 grit paper to take off any sharp edges left...

Dick Grosbier
06-25-2009, 04:31 PM
Jeffery...I would adjust your die downward a little at a time and measure the shoulder to base length..and make sure you don't exceed .001 or .002....

This is very good advice except you are leaving out the part about how to measure to the shoulder. This is accomplished by putting something on the neck of the case that indexes against the shoulder. It is best accomplished by using a stubby piece of the barrel that your gunsmith has run the reamer into just enough to accept most or all of the shoulder. Its machined flat on the other end so when you slip it on a fired case you can measure from the bottom of the Gauge to bottom of the case and then when you resize the case you can measure how far you pushed the shoulder back.

Dick

Jeffreytooker
06-25-2009, 05:17 PM
This is very good advice except you are leaving out the part about how to measure to the shoulder. This is accomplished by putting something on the neck of the case that indexes against the shoulder. It is best accomplished by using a stubby piece of the barrel that your gunsmith has run the reamer into just enough to accept most or all of the shoulder. Its machined flat on the other end so when you slip it on a fired case you can measure from the bottom of the Gauge to bottom of the case and then when you resize the case you can measure how far you pushed the shoulder back.

Dick

Dick et al:

I have a barrel stub which was made when the barrel was chambered. I will use it as you suggest.

Thanks to all for the help.

Jeffrey Tooker

Jeffreytooker
06-25-2009, 09:24 PM
Before cutting the die, try going past the point of initial contact with the shellholder, to where you feel the press bump a bit. Usually less than 30 degrees of additional rotation will take care of things.

Salazar:

I set the body die to full contact with the shell holder. I then blacked a case and sized it. The only contact with the case is at the shoulder lower radius and this is minimal and uniform. It seems that the match with the Redding die is good. When the die is shortened it would seem that the shoulder will contact first. The base of the case is not getting sized. It may if I take .004" off of the base.

I shoot left. The rifle stock is Teal blue.

Jeffrey Tooker

Butch Lambert
06-25-2009, 09:57 PM
The shoulder is bored out of my body die and it is shortened. I use it to size the base when necessary. I bump and full length with my regular die.
Jeffery, how do you measure your cases before and after bumping?
Butch

Jeffreytooker
06-25-2009, 10:39 PM
The shoulder is bored out of my body die and it is shortened. I use it to size the base when necessary. I bump and full length with my regular die.
Jeffery, how do you measure your cases before and after bumping?
Butch

Butch:

I have a barrel stub made with the same reamer as the barrel. I will start with a fired case, (not resized). I will lube the case place it in the stub and tap it once with a plastic hammer. I will then measure the the LOA of the stub and the case. I will then size the case in the shortened body die, place it in the stub, tap and measure again. The difference should be the shoulder set back. I did some tests on the unshortened die, see my reply to Salizar in previous post. The fit is good. The shortening of the die should work. Was talking to Fred?? at PTG on another issue and his advice was to cut .004" to get about .002" setback. He said this is necessary to compensate for springback. My Lapua brass arrives Saturday or Monday. Have to make and FF cases before I get back to the body die (some time next week).

Jeffrey Tooker

Boyd Allen
06-25-2009, 10:59 PM
When you set a die to touch the shell holder with no case in place, and then look at the top of stroke relationship between die and shell holder during a sizing cycle, you may see that a gap has appeared where there was none before, due to linkage stretch and clearance bottoming. Once, when I measured the gap during FL sizing of a .220 Swift using a Rock Chucker, it had opened from zero to about.006. This is what allows you to make the adjustment that German wrote about.

Jeffreytooker
06-25-2009, 11:21 PM
When you set a die to touch the shell holder with no case in place, and then look at the top of stroke relationship between die and shell holder during a sizing cycle, you may see that a gap has appeared where there was none before, due to linkage stretch and clearance bottoming. Once, when I measured the gap during FL sizing of a .220 Swift using a Rock Chucker, it had opened from zero to about.006. This is what allows you to make the adjustment that German wrote about.

Boyd:

I have set up a new Lee hand press(everyone can laugh now) with my body die. It has a dedicated shell holder. I am using this press so I can take it to the range, if I have to. The shell holder hits the die just before the press handle touches the press body. I have to actually spring the handle a bit to get it to touch. The relationship does not open up. However if I were using my old Rock Chucker that would probably happen.

Thank you for your advice.

Jeffrey Tooker

Jeffreytooker
06-25-2009, 11:50 PM
The shortening of the die should work. Was talking to Fred?? at PTG on another issue and his advice was to cut .004" to get about .002" setback. He said this is necessary to compensate for springback.
Jeffrey Tooker[/QUOTE]

Dave not Fred at PTG. My bad. Oldtimers.

Jeffrey Tooker

alinwa
06-26-2009, 01:13 AM
I see it somewhat differently :)

In the first place, any directions which say "set it to touch the shellholder" seem inadequate. IME chambers and dies and such vary by as much as .008 in length in modern firearms. And you're trying for a thou???

I agree with Boyd, check for space with the case in the die and if there's some gap you can go down more...... but I doubt that's the case eh?


I've had to shorten nearly all of my dies and I order custom dies with a huge gap. I just tell the diemaker to whack off an extra 20-30thou, I WANT a gap.

My goal is to bump the shoulder so slightly that I can barely measure it. My method is to keep working the die down until I CAN measure shoulder setback (normally around .005, up to .001) and WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN!!! Now I've got a baseline from which to work.

Now that I KNOW the die setting where the shoulder moves, I can check the other parts of the die for sizing effect. Generally I'll find that with the shoulder bumped back a thou the bolt handle just drops.......... and NOW I can set the die by "feel"...... I use a stack of Skip's Die Shims for this.

I've found nothing to support the contention that having the die touch the shellholder is more consistent, in fact I refuse to ever let a die touch down.... I'll take it to my grinder if I have to.

So there's some more opinion!

:)

al

Jeffreytooker
06-30-2009, 09:47 PM
Butch:

I have a barrel stub made with the same reamer as the barrel. I will start with a fired case, (not resized). I will lube the case place it in the stub and tap it once with a plastic hammer. I will then measure the the LOA of the stub and the case. I will then size the case in the shortened body die, place it in the stub, tap and measure again. The difference should be the shoulder set back. I did some tests on the unshortened die, see my reply to Salizar in previous post. The fit is good. The shortening of the die should work. Was talking to Dave at PTG on another issue and his advice was to cut .004" to get about .002" setback. He said this is necessary to compensate for springback. My Lapua brass arrives Saturday or Monday. Have to make and FF cases before I get back to the body die (some time next week).

Jeffrey Tooker

Butch:

In setting up to read shoulder setback I found my barrel stub was too long for my 2" mic. I had to use my vernier caliper which is not accurate enough for a .001" measurement. I am having my barrel stub cut to 1.9" overall length including the fired case. That way I can read setback with the 2" mic which is accurate enough to determine shoulder setback.

Jeffrey Tooker

Wilbur
07-01-2009, 06:19 AM
This is not a critical measurement. The goal is smooth feeding without excessive headspace. Certainly, the straw will break the camel's back at some point but not within the inaccuracy of a good dial caliper.

Dick Grosbier
07-01-2009, 06:31 AM
Butch:

In setting up to read shoulder setback I found my barrel stub was too long for my 2" mic. I had to use my vernier caliper which is not accurate enough for a .001" measurement. I am having my barrel stub cut to 1.9" overall length including the fired case.

Jeffrey Tooker

Like Wilbur said this ain't rocket science, a caliper typically works fine. If yours isn't up to the task digital display models cost around $20 on ebay
Dick