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Wilbur
06-04-2009, 01:22 AM
This forum, "Competition Benchrest" was created as a direct suggestion and many indirect complaints concerning a dilution of the Centerfire forum. Doesn't cost anything so we'll see how it goes.

crb
06-04-2009, 07:07 AM
Is this for airgun and rimfire also?:confused:

jackie schmidt
06-04-2009, 07:55 AM
One thing I see that separates Benchrest.com from many of the other sites is we can discuss varied topics on a single Forum, which tends to be the Centerfire Forum. When you scatter the discussions out over too many venues, it tends to be counterproductive, mainly in it dilutes the discussion.. What's next, "Br forum for left handed shooters with green Rifles".

Go over to the 6mmbr site.While Paul has one of the premier sites when dealing with matters that pretain toextreme accuracy shooting, there are WAY too many Forums.

OK, I am being sarcastic. But I believe the Centerfire Forum has served quite well in allowing Benchrest Shooters to discuss a wide variety of topics.

If someone is whining because they do not like reading all of the "chatter", then don't read it. Ask your question, get a good answer, and be satisfied.

If other shooters wish to expound on the topic, where is the harm?? Heck, that is how some of the best discussions are started.

Just my opinion, Wilbur, but as one of your Super Moderators, and a serious Benchrest Shooter. I do not see the need for this. ...........jackie

Kent Harshman
06-04-2009, 08:14 AM
...what do you see as the difference between a thread being applicable to the 'Centerfire Benchrest' forum vs. one being applicable to the 'Competition Benchrest' forum? I understand the ones you move from 'Centerfire Benchrest' to 'General Discussion', just wondering about the targeted threads for this new forum?...

Pokerplayer
06-04-2009, 08:50 AM
I think it will give a place for the competitive shooters to gather, and leave the centerfire forum as a place for the non competitive centerfire shooter to ask questions and not get the "this is a Benchrest forum, you should check out ---.com" post. Maybe a place a lot of shooters won't feel compelled to enter a thread.
I think it will also give the competitive shooters a place to discuss relevant competitive topics, and leave the centerfire forum as a place where a lot of bs shows up (probably the reason this forum was started), and a place where all centerfire questions that don't fit in specific forums can be asked

Dave B
06-04-2009, 09:44 AM
There is nothing wrong with trying new ideas. Thats how we move forward.
The hard part is still going to be keeping the Savage 223 shooters off.
In their minds if their buddies and themselves go out on Saturday and shoot for quarters, they think they are competition benchrest shooters.
Dave B

Fred J
06-04-2009, 09:57 AM
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s86/FredJ_2007/52DCamoRS.jpg
I like that.

andyid
06-04-2009, 10:35 AM
I have never understood why we as shooting sportsman/competition shooters/etc...have always tried to alienate each other over who is more correct or who's shooting dicipline is better than who's when we all have enough enemies to do battle against that are bound and determined to do away with all "GUNS". Can't we all just get along.
bruce

lead head
06-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Thats my thoughts exactly:)

cpeters
06-04-2009, 12:12 PM
Probably be better served with a Personal Attack/ I am Smart and you are Stupid forum. Seems like it might fill up pretty quick and take some of the nonsense out of the other forums.

Charlie

Pete Wass
06-04-2009, 12:31 PM
come from the assumption of the majority of competative benchrest shooters that everyone is gonna want to talk about 6 PPC stuff. Perhaps those people should segregate themselves out on the new forum and the rest of us will leave them to it. Mebby lurk once in a while but no contributions. That would do it, wouldn't it?

goodgrouper
06-04-2009, 12:34 PM
I have never understood why we as shooting sportsman/competition shooters/etc...have always tried to alienate each other over who is more correct or who's shooting dicipline is better than who's when we all have enough enemies to do battle against that are bound and determined to do away with all "GUNS". Can't we all just get along.
bruce



I agree completely. There is no shooting sport whose members are better than others. Variety in the shooting sports is what makes us as gun owners strong because it pulls in so many different people from all walks of life.

However, the Centerfire Benchrest section had it's fair share of guys who paraded themselves as "competitors" and gave out advice from that platform and therefore belched out misinformation. And in this line of shooting, misinformation can have you chasing your tail for years (at best) or it could kill you (at worst). Perhaps this new sub forum will keep all those guys who "agg in the teens with their AR15's" from spewing forth their lies and misleading garbage. Unless of course, they prefer to back it up in REAL registered competition.

goodgrouper
06-04-2009, 01:03 PM
One thing I see that separates Benchrest.com from many of the other sites is we can discuss varied topics on a single Forum, which tends to be the Centerfire Forum. When you scatter the discussions out over too many venues, it tends to be counterproductive, mainly in it dilutes the discussion.. What's next, "Br forum for left handed shooters with green Rifles".

Go over to the 6mmbr site.While Paul has one of the premier sites when dealing with matters that pretain toextreme accuracy shooting, there are WAY too many Forums.

OK, I am being sarcastic. But I believe the Centerfire Forum has served quite well in allowing Benchrest Shooters to discuss a wide variety of topics.

If someone is whining because they do not like reading all of the "chatter", then don't read it. Ask your question, get a good answer, and be satisfied.

If other shooters wish to expound on the topic, where is the harm?? Heck, that is how some of the best discussions are started.

Just my opinion, Wilbur, but as one of your Super Moderators, and a serious Benchrest Shooter. I do not see the need for this. ...........jackie



I must say, this is not the response I thought you would have. As someone who has always spelled competitive benchrest with a capital C and B, I would have thought this new forum would be right up your alley?
I don't mean this in a negative way at all. I'm just surprised that you would have this reaction after all the things you've said in the past about non-competitive shooters making posts like they were competitors, and advising guys to post their thread in the correct forum and so on. I have agreed with most of what you have said concerning these issues and I'm glad we have a true competition sub forum now. Yes, it will thin out the viewers and make for a more specific topic matter, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion. It will let us find the information pertaining to us much quicker.

Pete Wass
06-04-2009, 01:03 PM
I have never understood why we as shooting sportsman/competition shooters/etc...have always tried to alienate each other over who is more correct or who's shooting dicipline is better than who's when we all have enough enemies to do battle against that are bound and determined to do away with all "GUNS". Can't we all just get along.
bruce



got elected with the mantra, "Can't we all just get along?" and I predict it will be a failed endeavor. Our government was purposely set up for it's representataives to differ. That is how good law gets either created or never implemented.

Humans were not designed to "Get along". We all have our own ideas and belief systems and many are not flexable in their acceptanct that others may believe differently, especially some of our more Learnid participants. I think it best to segregate like minded folks and let them chat amongst themselves, that way they won't be offended.

jackie schmidt
06-04-2009, 01:09 PM
I sort of view this sight like a bunch of shooters sitting in a room, shooting the bull and trying to figure out a way to improve the shooting of Rifles.

I guess I am in the minority..........jackie

Mooseyard
06-04-2009, 01:58 PM
I feel like I need to go out and buy a new green rifle now!:confused:

jonmdavis62
06-04-2009, 03:50 PM
I sort of view this sight like a bunch of shooters sitting in a room, shooting the bull and trying to figure out a way to improve the shooting of Rifles.

I guess I am in the minority..........jackie

jackie l for one think you are Right..l'am not a BR shooter.
but like reading the posts. A place were a nineteen year
old can learn his new savage is not going to shoot in the
.000 all day long.Take the time it makes you B.R. shooters
stand tall....Jon D.

goodgrouper
06-04-2009, 03:57 PM
I sort of view this sight like a bunch of shooters sitting in a room, shooting the bull and trying to figure out a way to improve the shooting of Rifles.

I guess I am in the minority..........jackie


Hey, we still have that.;) But now we have something else in addition that will be good too!:)

Tom Libby
06-04-2009, 04:05 PM
I believe that for the center fire, benchrest shooters that want to get the info from other active center fire benchrest shooters and you feel that you feel that the infor they supply is helpful or not to you as this type of shooter, it is Very Important that they sign in and use their REAL NAME and not a handle. That way you can tell by checking the magazines like NBRSA NEWS or Precision SHOOTING and see some of the names that shoot the matches or ask another benchrest shooter if they know that person.

To many of the question asked that want a good answer, within about three post turns into how to make a peanut butter sandwich.

old 4 and 1
06-04-2009, 04:45 PM
Wilbur i think having the two sites is a great idea. I am a competive bench rest shooter for group, but i also shoot a Savage model 12 in .223 for score. I plan on using both forums, and which ever game i am playing at the time i will go directly to that forum for a question i need answered. It is sure nice to have them side by side instead of wondering around the net.

Gary

AVanGorder
06-04-2009, 05:12 PM
I'm down with the left handed green BR rifles

http://photos.imageevent.com/avangorder/guns/matches/sulphyrspringsmay312009/large/DSCN3883.JPG

This is my Left Bolt / Right Port / Left Eject / BR Borden Rifle

This picture was taken just last weekend

Flykiller
06-04-2009, 05:20 PM
Wilbur , bad idea! A house that divided cannot stand . Andyid , well said my friend. Jackie S. , you nailed it . I would comment more, but its time for my peanut butter sandwich . (real name) CLINT

John Kielly
06-04-2009, 05:31 PM
From the perspective of a guy who shoots 1000 yard bench as a third discipline, I was surprised when I got a bit of a handle on this site. It seems that there are some like me who will scan all mail since last login, then cherry pick the subjects that sound interesting, others who maybe read every posting (like I did while I was acclimatising) but there seems to be a big bunch who only read one or maybe two of the forums.

Dog's Elvis
06-04-2009, 05:43 PM
Jackie said it first and (in my opinion) well. It's really easy to not read a thread. There may be "dilution" within a thread, but a different forum can't stop that.

CptKaos
06-04-2009, 06:11 PM
I am still waiting for somebody to post peanutbutter sandwich assembly instructions

Larry

Gumby
06-04-2009, 06:32 PM
I think that a 6mm PPC ONLY!! forum would better serve the purpose.

Mike Ohlsen

Wilbur
06-04-2009, 07:52 PM
...what do you see as the difference between a thread being applicable to the 'Centerfire Benchrest' forum vs. one being applicable to the 'Competition Benchrest' forum? I understand the ones you move from 'Centerfire Benchrest' to 'General Discussion', just wondering about the targeted threads for this new forum?...

Just the tip of the iceberg......

Wilbur
06-04-2009, 08:07 PM
It needs to happen rather quickly. Please visit the "poll" at the top of this thread and make your choice.

CYanchycki
06-04-2009, 08:48 PM
Wilbur is trying to achieve. I am not, nor will ever be the competitor like so many are who frequent this forum are.

I do take offence to those who just cannot get it. Centerfire Benchrest or Factory/Hybrid. Yes it is minor but it still gets to me when so many questions are asked that are not Centerfire Benchrest related but would be better suited for the Factory Forum.

Yah I know we do not want to sound like a bunch of miserable old farts but we are all grown and should be able to take the heat or get out of the kitchen.

I like the new idea.

Calvin

Tony Shankle
06-04-2009, 08:53 PM
This forum, "Competition Benchrest" was created as a direct suggestion and many indirect complaints concerning a dilution of the Centerfire forum. Doesn't cost anything so we'll see how it goes.

So the cure for dilution is more dilution???

Isn't the definition of insanity to keep trying the same thing and expecting different results?

savet06
06-04-2009, 09:26 PM
What about Short Range Centerfire Benchrest ,and then as a sub description include the calibers most often discussed, or "discussions on 100-300yd benchrest competition". We have the 600-1,000yd forum which is fairly specific, why not just narrow down the title. It may not be apples to apples, but on 6br.com, I don't look at the "sub-caliber" or "6mm and up" forums, or at the advanced gunsmithing forum because I don't have any rifles that fit that description, and I am not in any way, shape, or form a gunsmith. If I do look I certainly don't post.
It may not require a whole new forum, but a renaming of the old one. Let's face it, the centerfire benchrest forum is PPC, BR, and similar cartridges...those who shoot wildcats for extreme accuracy are not looking for advice about their sporter barreled 300win mag deer rifle. They know where they belong so to speak. If you include a small description in the title you will help direct the folks whose efforts would be better spent elsewhere.


Mike

Big Al
06-04-2009, 09:26 PM
I believe that for the center fire, benchrest shooters that want to get the info from other active center fire benchrest shooters and you feel that you feel that the infor they supply is helpful or not to you as this type of shooter, it is Very Important that they sign in and use their REAL NAME and not a handle. That way you can tell by checking the magazines like NBRSA NEWS or Precision SHOOTING and see some of the names that shoot the matches or ask another benchrest shooter if they know that person.

To many of the question asked that want a good answer, within about three post turns into how to make a peanut butter sandwich.


This from a man that dresses up as a condom???:D

Real name Al.:)

Richard
06-04-2009, 09:47 PM
And yes, I shoot left handed, and..... I have a green rifle. And I also post under my name. Once in a while I make it into the NBRSA news too!!

Richard Brensing

Larry Hehl
06-05-2009, 07:40 AM
ain't broke, don't fix it.

Steve Lee
06-05-2009, 07:54 AM
This from a man that dresses up as a condom???:D

Real name Al.:)

'nuff said!

tiny68
06-05-2009, 10:10 AM
Well the typical newbie that post in this forum instead of the factory forum still is going to post their question in this because they don't truly understand what short range BR is. I think you will see just as many of the questions that set some of you off.....

Just MHO, tiny

Jim Pollard
06-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Why not call it centerfire competition benchrest shooting. That what most of the people posting want to talk about. Just for the record, there are people that shoot rimfire competitive benchrest! The current name fits both groups.
I bet that stirs up the pot---ha
Jim :)

MRL
06-05-2009, 10:32 AM
Does that mean all of the congrats and match heads up will come here?

Randy J.
06-05-2009, 11:49 AM
The reason that inappropriately placed posts are posted in the Centerfire Benchrest forum is the same reason the person modifying his first car goes to people who race instead of the local repair shop. Those that race know the simplest and best way to configure and set up the car. The person modifying his first car wants to make his car as best as it can be and get it right, so they go to the folks that have done it. The same applies to the novice sharpshooter wanting the best from his factory varmint rifle. He doesn't want to fool around trying 25 homemade recipes that are may or may not work. They want solid info from the folks who have proven they can do it, hence they come to Centerfire Benchrest. I see nothing wrong with that. If I am not interested in a thread, I ignore it. I doubt a new subcategory will make much difference but then again, you won't know until you try. Randy J. (my real name)

Richard
06-05-2009, 11:53 AM
making the competition only forum where that if you want to post you have to enter your NBRSA or IBS # as a password or something like that. Others could still read, but not post. Just an idea, I don't know if Wilbur could even do that.

Richard

caroby
06-05-2009, 12:24 PM
making the competition only forum where that if you want to post you have to enter your NBRSA or IBS # as a password or something like that. Others could still read, but not post. Just an idea, I don't know if Wilbur could even do that.

Richard

I like it .... As Richard said for posting only.... Everyone can look at the threads...

vBulletin software should allow this..?

No snob just for competitive shooters.

cale

Chisolm
06-05-2009, 06:58 PM
making the competition only forum where that if you want to post you have to enter your NBRSA or IBS # as a password or something like that. Others could still read, but not post. Just an idea, I don't know if Wilbur could even do that.

Richard

I am an IBS member but have no IBS number that I am aware of.


If you feel the need to add another forum I like German's idea the best or alternatively just call the new forum the 6mm PPC forum for discussion of the 6mm PPC only.


Seen a lot of changes in my time and been against every one.

James

wolf gray
06-05-2009, 07:48 PM
James,
"Seen alot of changes in my time and been against every one of them". You have piqued my curiosity. Have any of these changes turned out to be a good deal ?

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am am I in this basket?"

Chisolm
06-05-2009, 08:30 PM
Dan,
Actually that is a phrase that my younger brother is quite fond of. It just seemed appropriate here.:)

Would that be a handbasket your in?:D

James

alinwa
06-05-2009, 10:40 PM
This from a man that dresses up as a condom???:D

Real name Al.:)

Was he dressed up? I thought he just poked his legs out, last time I saw him he had Dorf feet.....

hmmmmmmmmm

Real name al :)

Dave Coots
06-05-2009, 10:43 PM
Difference as said by Elmer Fudd between a wicker basket and a wicker box??

Later
Dave

Joe Haller
06-05-2009, 11:24 PM
I use-ta-be a centerfire benchrest competitor. Now I'm a rimfire benchrest competitor. A question was asked twice here: "Is this forum opened to Rimfire Competitors?

Wasn't answered.

Does anyone want to to answer that question? Maybe we got'a ask Wilber. The rimfire organizations run matches and the matches are competitive.

Anyway: "Benchrest Competition". Here is my opening thought.

Our game is loosing shooters. "Where are we going in that handbasket". How about encouraging us to discuss topics related to "Running the Matches". We only have COMPETITION when we have clubs with leadership and volunteers willing to run matches. Simplifying match procedures can reduce the number of clubs that drop out because of volunteer burnout.

How about asking questions of, and getting feed-back from officers of the clubs who have had success in GROWING the sport?

That is my positive suggestion. I have a negative one too: Don't expand this thing too big.

As Jackie said: What's next, a BR forum for left handed shooters with Green Rifles".

Rimfire Central has a HUG number of forums. I asked the administration over there to set up a MATCH section to promote match competition back in 2001. They did and we have a "small" group of dedicated competitive shooters in our On-Line-Matches. BUT: Very few of the 40,000 RFC members ever look into our MATCH section (Maybe the word "Match" frightens them off). Seems to me that is a bad thing, as I have been trying to introduce those kitchen table gunsmiths to COMPETITION for the past 8 years.

Then again: Maybe here on Benchrest Central, the word COMPETITION may frighten off the plinkers as it seems to have done on RFC.

I think that barring a non-competitor from asking questions in this forum about how to get into the sport as a competitor would be counter-productive.

Joe Haller

Ahh Gee: I got a Grade 10 Suhl from Jim Williams last Winter. It's Green and I shoot left handed. But: I don't need no special GREEN forum to talk about it when it wins the next (rimfire) match for me.

Tony Shankle
06-06-2009, 12:23 AM
Passwords and limiting who can post... great, maybe we could get matching decoder rings and build a clubhouse too! ;)

And we wonder why our sport doesn't attract more people...:(

The description on the Benchrest Home Page says "The Absolute Source of Accuracy Components, Services, Accessories,
and Information for the Precision Shooter", can we subtitle that to say "but only for those chosen few"!

Come on guys, we already have a "General" and "Factory" and from what I see the grouchy guys do a damn good job of either not answering or telling them to post elsewhere! Does it just kill you to help a newcomer or someone that can't afford the same gear as you? Is this the example and impression that we wish to impart on others?

Sometimes the air in here is so thick with haughtiness and disdain (not all but some) that I am surprised when a new shooter musters up the courage to post. The level of segregation is even worse! You belly shooters over there, those long range guys, those point blank guys, and so forth. Just two weeks ago at a match I listened to 15 minutes worth of it before I finally told the guy I also shoot in the group he is talking about!

I may be way off base here and owe you all an apology and if so I will shut up and take the beating that I am sure will follow. But, I will leave you with a quote that my mom gave me in my late teens. "The last great test of any gentleman is how he treats those that can be of no possible use to him". That more often than not is a hard test to pass!

D R Greysun
06-06-2009, 01:52 AM
Wilbur,

Do you see where this is going already? Yeah, different only the same! :eek:

If you hope to put out fires, I think it will not happen. If your intent is to increase bandwidth, well maybe.

D R (and I really don't have a place here, just my $0.02)

Roger T
06-06-2009, 08:06 AM
This is a top notch site with alot of INCREDIBLE Knowledge. This is why I am here, to LEARN from the BEST. At 50 I still feel like a kid:D

JerrySharrett
06-06-2009, 08:29 AM
Great idea Wilbur. So far the only substantial BR shooter I've not seen post on this thread is "Sits In Trees".

Seriously, good intentions, bad idea, but, thanks for all you do and put up with from us in the Hitherlands and the further outreaches like Alabama.

goodgrouper
06-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. This is only an ADDITION to the site, it does not SUBTRACT from what is already here. If you don't like it, follow your own advice and simply don't click on this sub forum! Nobody is forcing you to read it or participate in it and nobody is trying to take away the centerfire section or any other. Some guys are starting to sound like the anti-gunners; "we don't like what you like so we think you ought not have it at all"! I never could understand that mentality.

And I see nothing in the title that limits what kind of competition can be discussed here. Centerfire, Rimfire, or 1000 yard. The bottom line is that this sub forum is for competitors by competitors so all competitors should be welcomed.

Enough of the old granny bridge club drama, lets get back to shootin'!

Big Al
06-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Was he dressed up? I thought he just poked his legs out, last time I saw him he had Dorf feet.....

hmmmmmmmmm

Real name al :)




Last time I saw Libby he was in his reggae wig, before that he was safety shooter in his full condom outfit. I don't know if what he was wearing you could call a spandex body suit? Never the less, a good time was had by all.:D

But most of all, by Libby!

wolf gray
06-06-2009, 07:24 PM
James,
I'm too big to fit in a handbasket! And I don't need any wisecracks from the guys that know me!:D

Best.
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"

Richard
06-06-2009, 09:48 PM
people are willing to work their butts off to be competitive, and some want to whine and have all the hard work handed to them on a silver platter. I am more than willing to help some people to get started in the right direction, if they are willing to put forth the effort required. Probably one of the best tuners in this sport, Darrell Loker got me started in the right direction, but I also spent hours and hours behind the rifle, and hours in the shop trying to make myself a better shooter and builder.
Nobody that I know of has said BR was easy, if it was, I don't think I would be interested in doing it.

Richard Brensing

Wilbur
06-06-2009, 10:38 PM
"The last great test of any gentleman is how he treats those that can be of no possible use to him".

Can I quote your Mom? Before you grant permission, consider that I will soon forget whom to credit....sooner than I will forget the statement.

Wilbur
06-06-2009, 10:48 PM
Does this newforum apply to all venues of benchrest competition?

Yes - it would have to...or seemingly have to.

Tony Shankle
06-06-2009, 11:15 PM
"The last great test of any gentleman is how he treats those that can be of no possible use to him".

Can I quote your Mom? Before you grant permission, consider that I will soon forget whom to credit....sooner than I will forget the statement.

Feel free to do so...just tell folks "Mom" said it as I am sure if you would have ever met her she would seem like Mom to you too.:) She was quoting William Lyon Phelps and she didn't quite get it word for word but I always liked her version better.

roninflag
06-06-2009, 11:16 PM
Left hand shooters with green rifles, let's go!

Seriously, I think the new forum is a good idea, since i'm not a competitive BR shooter, leaving the CF forum as something a little broader seems like a good plan.


http://usera.ImageCave.com/phx300m/PRGC_123106/DSC01560.JPG
.nice pic BUT IS IT a 30-06?

Joe Haller
06-07-2009, 03:22 AM
. . . of any gentleman is how he treats those that can be of no possible use to him"

Seems that comes close to fitting the club volunteers how run our matches, and make the sport of COMPETITION benchrest possible.

"no possible use" might refer to the guys who don't help clean up after the match is over.

Pete Wass
06-07-2009, 08:09 AM
. . . of any gentleman is how he treats those that can be of no possible use to him"

Seems that comes close to fitting the club volunteers how run our matches, and make the sport of COMPETITION benchrest possible.

"no possible use" might refer to the guys who don't help clean up after the match is over.



That a number of folks feel that their entry fee was more than enough for them to pay to shoot for that day without helping in any way to make the shoot happen. Perhaps we need to somehow re-educate folks. From what I have seen, the biggest reason venues quit offering events is the competitor don't appreciate the oportunity to compete at a venue to give anything back to the sport. As our attendence numbers decrease, and they seem to be decreasing, it is particularly important for all who are able to 1. either show up early to help or 2. plan on staying an extra hour or so to help wrap things up.

If the venues don't need our help fine but I think, in most cases, all could use our assistance. And throw a buck or two on that Target Crew Tip Can when there is one as well. :)

gt40
06-07-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm building my first rifle and it will be a Brux 6mm Norma BR. barrel with a new Savage Target action in a Stockade Tactical stock so I can use it in short range BR and long range BR and F-Class + Prone with bypod competition.

Now I am all confused. :confused: I do not know where to ask questions without my posts being moved all over the place. ;) :p

"Aim small miss small", :D

gt40

PS: I'm right handed, but if I paint it GREEN will that get me in the door?

TomD
06-07-2009, 09:49 AM
I think the new forum belongs in the Department of Redundancies Department.

John Kielly
06-07-2009, 08:01 PM
Is somebody running a book on the voting? Looks to me that it's going to be decided in extra time.

Anyway, it seems to me that any extra forums are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. I joined up here after a friend pointed out an interesting thread to me - one that had general target shooting application. I've stuck with it for the same reason, that many subjects have general application. I've 'fessed up with my profile that I'm first a belly shooter who fires the odd angry 1000 yard benchrest shot because that discipline is compatible - simpatico - with the rest of my shooting.

Now, over a time, I've formed an opinion that there are two camps on this forum, those who are open minded, say laid back, enough to accept a lot of the BS that the untutored like me might occasionally come up with & those who believe that anybody who shoots further than 300 yards or not off the bench is an affront to the Forum. Oh, yeah, there are also rimfire benchresters.

So, Wilbur, I reckon that your solution is not to add another forum, but to delete F class, General Discussion & Gunsmithing, Factory/Hybrid rifles, oh and probably Airgun & 600/1000 yards (because nobody listens to springers & Lynn anyway :D).

John
(my real given name)

TomD
06-07-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm building my first rifle and it will be a Brux 6mm Norma BR. barrel with a new Savage Target action in a Stockade Tactical stock so I can use it in short range BR and long range BR and F-Class + Prone with bypod competition.

Now I am all confused. :confused: I do not know where to ask questions without my posts being moved all over the place. ;) :p

"Aim small miss small", :D

gt40

PS: I'm right handed, but if I paint it GREEN will that get me in the door?

No but if you paint yourself green we'll think about it.

John Kielly
06-08-2009, 06:34 AM
I say we drop all non U.S. shooters from posting as well.
Can't do that. I got a green gun too! :rolleyes:

steyrl
06-09-2009, 06:02 AM
There is nothing wrong with trying new ideas. Thats how we move forward.
The hard part is still going to be keeping the Savage 223 shooters off.
In their minds if their buddies and themselves go out on Saturday and shoot for quarters, they think they are competition benchrest shooters.
Dave B

Good one Dave :D:D
Yep! It is going to be hard to keep us off. I'm a Savage 223 shooter but definitely do NOT regard myself as a competition benchrest shooter. My LRPV shoots really well but it AIN'T no competitive benchrest rifle and there's no way I could seriously consider shooting in a BR competition.

I have found by reading different forum topics you can pick up some useful information. So, within reason, the more the merrier:D

What I have noticed at the range lately, are the guys who turn up with brand new, dare I say it, "Tactical" rifles in large calibres with or without muzzle brakes, with high priced scopes aboard (not yet sighted in), stacks of factory ammo, ask the range officers for help after going through a fair swag of their ammo trying to get the rifle sighted in, disregard the advice and to top it all off, DON'T HAVE ONE BIT OF CLEANING GEAR WITH THEM.:eek:
AND, during their attempts to sight the rifle in have shot half the target frames away:eek::eek:

jackie schmidt
06-09-2009, 09:10 AM
The big glossy adds in the popular magazines work. They know that Shooters have a lot in common with Hot Rodders. Practicle application, and common sense, take a vacation whether the choice is enough horsepower to push a Factory Car 180 mph, or enough bullet weight and velocity to push a bullet to create 4000+ lbs of muzzle energy from a Rifle.

Think of the shame involved in showing up at the local deer camp with something as mundane as a 30-06........jackie



.

Andrew B
06-09-2009, 12:25 PM
"Practicle application, and common sense, take a vacation whether the choice is enough horsepower to push a Factory Car 180 mph"

Laughed out loud.

Totally correct

Just got a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V, 556 horsepower, top speed 198. Best car to ever come out of Detroit.

BTW, I too have a green gun.

jackie schmidt
06-09-2009, 01:51 PM
Boy, we are going to catch it for discussing this on this thread.

But we were just shopping for a new car, and I test drove the CTS-V. Wouldn't you just love to slide up beside a Shelby Mustang, or the regular 400HP Corvette. Or heck, just about anything for that matter.

Oh yeh, my Wife settled on a Toyota Avalon LImited.:mad: More room for the Grand Kids.

So I traded her '07 Tahoe for a new Chevy truck.:D

Oh well, I always have my '67 Chevelle. It would take the CTS in a 1/4 mile, but after that, the Caddy would clean it's clock.

My favorite Benchrest Rifle, my Sporter, is also built on a green Robertson BRX Stock .........jackie

steyrl
06-10-2009, 05:47 AM
"Practicle application, and common sense, take a vacation whether the choice is enough horsepower to push a Factory Car 180 mph"

Laughed out loud.

Totally correct

Just got a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V, 556 horsepower, top speed 198. Best car to ever come out of Detroit.

BTW, I too have a green gun.

:D:DCrikey! All the green guns are coming out; I ain't got one and I think I'm going to find out I'm in the minority of those not owning a green gun.:D:D

All the best guys,

Bill Dyer (steyrl)

wncchester
06-10-2009, 08:21 AM
I don't mind other type of questions but each forum should be what it claims to be!

Considering how specific the Competitive BR side of shooting is AND how badly the previous effort to address that topic has been diluted with a question about a .30-30at this moment, it seems a truly dedicated forum IS in order.

I hope the moderator(s) WILL move or delete any clearly spurious posts from this forum. AND remove the "Bench Rest" label from the Centerfire forum, it's become virtually irrelivant to the discussion.

333smitty
06-10-2009, 09:51 AM
[QUOTE=wncchester;510830]I don't mind other type of questions but each forum should be what it claims to be!

Considering how specific the Competitive BR side of shooting is AND how badly the previous effort to address that topic has been diluted with a question about a .30-30 at this moment, it seems a truly dedicated forum IS in order.

wncchester,

There is a light 30-30 BR rig that is very competitve in the Benchrest arena. :eek: It is campaigned by Michael Turner in New Mexico. He does well with it in both group and score.

mike in co
06-10-2009, 07:20 PM
i have a suggestion.
one: dump this forum......(divide and waste time).
TWO: moderators actively move nonBENCHREST POSTS off the centerfire forum to one of the other forums(ex: 30-30 post, 375 h&h post).
THREE:CLARIFY the title of the br forum....to benchrest accuracy and benchrest competition. this would allow factory thru unlimited discussion.

i'll deal with stretching whats on the centerfire forum, but going to two forums to find br info is a waste of time.

WHO/WHAT defines :br competition

i currently read what i do, centerfire br, 600/1000yd and gunsmith forums.

sledom vary.

mike in co

goodgrouper
06-11-2009, 01:45 PM
i currently read what i do, centerfire br, 600/1000yd and gunsmith forums.

sledom vary.

mike in co


This makes sense. Then you wouldn't want to read this forum anyway because it has to do with competitive benchrest of which you do not participate.

Nader
06-12-2009, 07:05 PM
Count me out,
I don't watch TV, 'cause there's too many channels and nothing on any of them! So now BR Central has taken the same course. Boring ! I think I'll go wash the dishes.
Joel

JerrySharrett
06-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Count me out,
I don't watch TV, 'cause there's too many channels and nothing on any of them! So now BR Central has taken the same course. Boring ! I think I'll go wash the dishes.
Joel

Joel, lets start a coin collecting club. I hear you have some really nice commemorative coins.

Kent Harshman
06-12-2009, 08:51 PM
...for Nader...why don't you get a HAIRCUT!...

JerrySharrett
06-13-2009, 05:25 AM
...for Nader...why don't you get a HAIRCUT!...
Kent, he did.

Dave Coots
06-14-2009, 08:10 AM
I'm thinkin the new forum is not much of a high priority. BR Central has over 15 thousand members and less than 200 have voted. Less that 2 percent.

You can't make everyone happy. Thanks.

Later
Dave

HFV
06-15-2009, 01:16 AM
Wiiillllllbbuurrrrr, I personally prefer just one forum for benchrest. (That's because I have bad eyes and short fingers) But I'm not a competitive benchrest shooter.
Jerry Sharrett made me get haircut also.
HFV

JerrySharrett
06-15-2009, 05:35 AM
Wiiillllllbbuurrrrr, I personally prefer just one forum for benchrest. (That's because I have bad eyes and short fingers) But I'm not a competitive benchrest shooter.
Jerry Sharrett made me get haircut also.
HFV
Tommy, as God is my witness I thought cutting your hair would make you a competitive benchrest shooter. Oh, well.

Steve Lee
06-15-2009, 10:18 AM
Jerry...Don't you know that getting a haircut throws your balance off...at least I've used that as an excuse on several occasions :D

JerrySharrett
06-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Jerry...Don't you know that getting a haircut throws your balance off...at least I've used that as an excuse on several occasions :D
Steve, I know loosing your hair throws your balance off. Least it did me and 6-8 other shooters I know.

How's Ralph??

bluhandluke
06-15-2009, 03:58 PM
What constitutes "competitive benchrest shooting"? A bonified sanctioned event? Or, would it be considered "competitive benchrest shooting" at a non-sanctioned event at you local range? Or, how about a bunch of guys and gals (30-40 shooters) in a cow pasture (not a range) shooting off portable benches in annual and semi-annual events?

Nader
06-15-2009, 07:25 PM
Can't we come up with another 12 guys to vote "lose it", so we can just bury this thing ?
Joel
p.s. Dump this forum and I WILL get a haircut !

wncchester
06-16-2009, 09:57 PM
[QUOTE=333smitty; wncchester, There is a light 30-30 BR rig that is very competitve in the Benchrest arena. :eek: It is campaigned by Michael Turner in New Mexico. He does well with it in both group and score.[/QUOTE]

Granted. But the referenced post doesn't fit that profile and it is an example of what I meant that the C.R. Benchrest has been diluted beyond recognition:
--------------------------------
"Forgive a noob question, but how is "excessive pressure" determined? I just got a Sears 54 (1894) 18" that is now on its third generation -- I really don't want to blow it. Never reloaded before, but looking at it now considering 30-30 prices.

"Been reading at reloadersnest.com, here, and a few other places. Currently looking at getting started with W-748, Federal 210 or CCI - BR2, and looking for a cheaper source or alternative for the Hornady Flexes. Maybe this 110grain. I'm really looking for a more personal defense round than deer round, with sufficiently good accuracy for the occasional 200m informal competitions in my area.

"Will a Lee Classic Loader Kit do the trick to get me started?"
---------------------------------

Now, this is probably a fine fellow, certainly a new guy and his questions deserve sound answers, but how he could justify posting it on a BR specific board escapes me.

It makes no more sense to keep this on the CF BR forum than it would to keep a question about casting pistol bullets on the 1000 yard forum!

A (general) place for everything, put everything in its (general) place!

Dana
06-17-2009, 06:40 AM
Can't we come up with another 12 guys to vote "lose it", so we can just bury this thing ?
Joel
p.s. Dump this forum and I WILL get a haircut !
Wilbur
This is the best reason to dump the new forum. ;):D:D

abintx
06-18-2009, 08:58 PM
10 Forums ??? Why not go for an even DOZEN ??? Or, maybe a BAKER'S DOZEN ??? :)

Joe Haller
06-18-2009, 10:07 PM
Let's hit the BIG TIME like Rimfire Central !!!

They have 115 forums. A few of them actuallly talk about competitive shooting.

Paul Fielder
06-21-2009, 07:36 PM
Leave it....I don't compete. Always wanted to, but sold all my BR rigs as I just had too many hobbies and no time or $$$$ to travel. Only got one screamer in all that time and I shot for pure fun and to unwind.

When people ask how I like San Antonio being from "deep South TX", I tell them it's a 3-4 hour ride north....heck, it takes me 5 hours+ just get to Jackie's neck of the woods.

Decided I would stick with hunting and fishing until my Daddy duties are over. I may try it down the road if things come together, but I don't see it now. I still enjoy coming on here and looking over what you guys tackle. I see no reason for another forum & would just move the threads that don't comply over to the general, hybrid, gunsmith, etc.

pf
<><

LHSmith
06-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Can't we come up with another 12 guys to vote "lose it", so we can just bury this thing ?
Joel
p.s. Dump this forum and I WILL get a haircut !



Just seen this Nader guys picture on the IBS site....YIKES!!....was fence sitter 'til this incentive cropped up....voted -lose it.
What will he do with that hippy van he probably drives?
That picture gives justification for IBS to tighten up membership requirements:rolleyes:

LARRY FEUSSE
07-01-2009, 09:01 AM
I don't see the need for another forum for competition benchrest vs. "other?" benchrest.

What may be acceptable would be specific forums for Group Benchrest vs. Score Shooting Benchrest. But even then many of the fundamentals are the same in both diciplines. The only reason I can see for the separation woud be to provid a more direct lookup of information on one dicipline vs. the other if a person was needing a specific type of information as relates to either dicipline. Examples may be 30 BR vs. 6PPC or information about a specific event.

Hope this is helpful.

Respectfully submitted,
Larry Feusse


ps

For those interested in dignity and the gentlemanly response, please see the quote below;

People may not remember exactly what you did,
or what you said,

but

they will always remember how you made them

FEEL!!!!!!!!

Joe Haller
07-04-2009, 03:53 AM
To be a competitor, ya gota be a winner?

I read on one a these forms a couple years ago that some gunsmith on the East Coast was suppose to have said: "Everyone who shoots in a match is a winner. The only losers are those who don't step up to the line and shoot the match".

I like his definition of WINNER. To me it's a form of encouragement that could get and keep new people in the benchrest game. And: We need new shooters. We seem to be loosing more shooters than we are gaining.

What do ya call the guys who plan, organize and run the matches? Without them there ain't no matches, and no winners or losers.

There should be another name: A name for the guys who recruit new shooters. They have an important job. If they don't succeed, the game dies.

There are lots of losers out there. I think it's the fear of loosing that keeps them away from our matches. Help some of them to adjust their at attitude and think like that east coast gunsmith and our sport will grow.

Joe Haller (Mr. Frosty)

sbindy
07-04-2009, 10:23 AM
From the looks of it, you could have moved the "Match Results" forum to the top and accomplished the same thing, since that is the only thing that is being posted in the new forum.

mike in co
07-05-2009, 06:27 PM
i'll go back to my original idea....

dump this,
and politely moderate the benchrest forum, moving off topic posts to a more correct forum.
no need for a secong forum.

and if winning is the only "competition", who are all the other shooter that shot in the winners match ?.......


sorry lets move on...


mike

Pete Wass
07-13-2009, 06:36 PM
Don't Participate. It's actually that simple. We won't be offended if you don't participate, honest! ;)

TonyAllinson
07-14-2009, 12:53 AM
I wonder how many people don't know about this new forum. Today is the first time I have found it, and that was only because of a friend who got me searching.

Sorry I am so slow.

Tony - OZ

Big Al
07-14-2009, 10:14 AM
I wonder how many people don't know about this new forum. Today is the first time I have found it, and that was only because of a friend who got me searching.

Sorry I am so slow.

Tony - OZ


?, yes it has been hidden from view by being right up front.

Everybody knows that is the best way to hide anything.

One can moderter on their own by looking at the number of viewers on this forum.


Keep beating a dead horse, Wilbur!:D

LesWard
07-14-2009, 12:00 PM
I sort of view this sight like a bunch of shooters sitting in a room, shooting the bull and trying to figure out a way to improve the shooting of Rifles.

I guess I am in the minority..........jackie

I check out this site along with a couple of home machinist sites, every mornig cuz it is pretty much to the point.

I am not a bench rest shooter yet, hell the range I shoot at only has one bench, which I made!

I have asked a few questions which folks like "Jackie" have graciously answered.

I like the keep it simple approach.

Anyway thanks for listening.

Aloha, Les (outside lookin in)

JerrySharrett
07-14-2009, 01:23 PM
Look at your hit count history. every time I've looked at the forum index for the new forum vs the centerfire forum about 75-80% are looking at the centerfire benchrest forum. Again, I vote to let er' die!!

Steve Lee
07-16-2009, 09:35 AM
I have changed my mind on this forum. I now like the ability to go here for competition specific threads and the centerfire forum for topics such as load development, etc.

wolf gray
07-16-2009, 02:23 PM
Steve,
It's people like you that screw up polls ! :D

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"

PS. Sorry Steve, I couldn't help myself !

Steve Lee
07-20-2009, 12:05 PM
Steve,
It's people like you that screw up polls ! :D


Well...I could screw up an anvil, so no surprise there! :D

Big Al
08-13-2009, 05:24 PM
This is wonderful, look at the type of posts on this thread. Most are news of a match. Proving once and for all how this type of thread is so essential to this entire forum.

JJ-IA
08-13-2009, 08:25 PM
This is wonderful, look at the type of posts on this thread. Most are news of a match. Proving once and for all how this type of thread is so essential to this entire forum.

Thatís because this forum needs a "match results" sub-forum to replace the one at the bottom of the main page. :)

There have been some very good on-topic competition related discussions here though, and they'd be buried on page 39 of the other forum by now.
I do like the rule change discussions and potential record threads in this forum, pretty much what I expected to see in the other one when I first came here a few years ago.
Overall, I still like it and bet it will be hoppin this winter!
Jim

Joe Salt
03-06-2010, 10:09 AM
OK guys enough of the "I know more than you" thinking, and let's try learning from each other. I've been on all the forums to try to pick up anything I can that includes Gunsmith corner and I've been Shooting 1000 yard since 1971 some of you weren't even born yet , but it doesn't mean I can't pick something up that will help, some of you people have great ideas so if something doesn't agree with you, don't fight about it. that' s not the way to get more shooters. new shooters are going to think we're a bunch of idiots

Joe Salt IBS.Member Since 1972:)