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rdsii64
05-03-2009, 12:22 PM
Hello folks. I am new to this stile of shooting and have a million questions.
I want to get into F class T/R just for the plain fun of shooting things a long range. At this stage of the game I am not concerned with being all that competitive. That will come at the other end of the learning curve. Right now my main concern is how best to make the most use of the guns I have with out violating the rules.

Both my guns are Howa 1500's. They both have 24 inch heavy varmint barrels and recessed target crowns. They both are set in Bell and Carlson MkII medalist stocks. One is chambered for .223 and the other in .308. I consede that these are not even close to proper target rigs, but for now I gotta run what I got.

The main point of this post is using a bipod with spiked pod feet on my guns. The spiked feet I am referring to are not long vertical spikes but look more like sharp birds feet. This will allow me to apply forward pressure on the bipod so I can drive the gun through the recoil and keep muzzle flip to a minimum. Is this legal in F class T/R?

dirtball
05-03-2009, 04:21 PM
That is a GOOD question, in F Open the rest can have up to 2" spikes/feet.
This is what the rules say about F/TR;
(b) F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) Rests - A bipod and/or sling are the only allowed front supports for the F-TR
rifle. The rifle may be supported by a bipod and/or sling and a rear support which provide no positive
mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot. Subject to:
(1) The bipod and/or sling and rear support may not be attached to each other.
(2) The use of any form of a table is prohibited. Separate flat boards or plates not exceeding the
dimensions of the individual rests by two inches are allowed to be placed under the front and/or rear
rests. See Rule 3.4.1(a)(1).
No leveling screws or protrusions are allowed on these boards or plates. They must be flat on the top
and bottom.
This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of bench rest and should not
be construed as such.
Disabled competitors may apply to the NRA Protest Committee for appropriate dispensation.
The intent of this rule is to prevent the use of a table type device.
(3) A bipod is a device with no more than two legs that touch the firing point. It must be rigidly attached to the forend of the rifle. The bipod may have rigid or folding legs, and may be adjustable to compensate for the uneven surface of the firing point.
(4) No portion of the rifle’s butt or forend shall rest directly on the ground or any hard surface. A rear rabbit eared bag, small sandbag or a gloved hand may be used to support the rifle’s butt. Any rear support employed shall not be attached, clamped or held to the rifle in any manner. The rear support may not be fixed to or protrude into the firing point. Mechanically adjustable rear support is not allowed.
(5) Any number or type of objects may be placed beneath the bipod or rear support, to compensate for variations in height or slope of the firing point.
(6) The bipod and rear rest may be adjusted after any shot to compensate for rest movement or settling. A sling may be used in conjunction with the rest(s), but its weight will be included in the rifle’s overall
weight (Rule 3.4.(b)).

I still don't know! Perhaps and E-mail or phone call to the NRA.
Dave

milanuk
05-03-2009, 05:12 PM
Good luck finding someone there that has shot enough F-Class to give an intelligent answer on the topic.

D R Greysun
05-03-2009, 10:17 PM
That is a GOOD question, in F Open the rest can have up to 2" spikes/feet.
This is what the rules say about F/TR;
(b) F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) Rests - A bipod and/or sling are the only allowed front supports for the F-TR
rifle. The rifle may be supported by a bipod and/or sling and a rear support which provide no positive
mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot. Subject to:
(1) The bipod and/or sling and rear support may not be attached to each other.
(2) The use of any form of a table is prohibited. Separate flat boards or plates not exceeding the
dimensions of the individual rests by two inches are allowed to be placed under the front and/or rear
rests. See Rule 3.4.1(a)(1).
No leveling screws or protrusions are allowed on these boards or plates. They must be flat on the top
and bottom.
This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of bench rest and should not
be construed as such.
Disabled competitors may apply to the NRA Protest Committee for appropriate dispensation.
The intent of this rule is to prevent the use of a table type device.
(3) A bipod is a device with no more than two legs that touch the firing point. It must be rigidly attached to the forend of the rifle. The bipod may have rigid or folding legs, and may be adjustable to compensate for the uneven surface of the firing point.
(4) No portion of the rifle’s butt or forend shall rest directly on the ground or any hard surface. A rear rabbit eared bag, small sandbag or a gloved hand may be used to support the rifle’s butt. Any rear support employed shall not be attached, clamped or held to the rifle in any manner. The rear support may not be fixed to or protrude into the firing point. Mechanically adjustable rear support is not allowed.
(5) Any number or type of objects may be placed beneath the bipod or rear support, to compensate for variations in height or slope of the firing point.
(6) The bipod and rear rest may be adjusted after any shot to compensate for rest movement or settling. A sling may be used in conjunction with the rest(s), but its weight will be included in the rifle’s overall
weight (Rule 3.4.(b)).

I still don't know! Perhaps and E-mail or phone call to the NRA.
Dave

I would say NO to spiked bi-pods. If they were allowed they would have mentioned it as they do for F/O! If it ain't there don't put it there, seems simple enough.

D R

Travelor
05-04-2009, 06:09 AM
They are legal.

Taildrag15X
05-04-2009, 09:00 AM
I believe they are called Pod Claws, and they are legal for use in F/TR F-Class.

rdsii64
05-04-2009, 11:36 AM
I believe they are called Pod Claws, and they are legal for use in F/TR F-Class.the pod claws were what I was referring to.

Thanks

earl39
05-15-2009, 11:35 AM
YES as per rule F2.21.1. which states

"The F-Restricted bipod may have up to two “feet”.
Each such “foot” may terminate in a spike, which
may be pressed into the ground by up to 50mm
(about 2”) provided this causes no significant
permanent harm or indentation to the firing point."

now you have the rule to back you up
gary

PEI Rob
05-15-2009, 05:34 PM
Sorry for the hijack but what about the ski style like the Rempel or Sinclair, are these OK for restricted?

earl39
05-15-2009, 06:42 PM
yes the ski type is ok for use as long as it conforms with all the other rules and you stay within the weight limits

JCummings
05-16-2009, 07:33 AM
I've used the Pod Claws and like them. they are vastly superior to the rubber boots that come on the Harris Bipods. After trying them I immediately bought a second set.

D R Greysun
05-16-2009, 05:04 PM
YES as per rule F2.21.1. which states

"The F-Restricted bipod may have up to two “feet”.
Each such “foot” may terminate in a spike, which
may be pressed into the ground by up to 50mm
(about 2”) provided this causes no significant
permanent harm or indentation to the firing point."

now you have the rule to back you up
gary

Gary,
Please site your source for the above mentioned rule F2.21.1.
Thanx already,
D R

earl39
05-16-2009, 06:12 PM
here it is D R along with a few others so i don't have to cut and paste and mess stuff up just hope it works http://www.nrahq.org/compete/rules/fullbore_07.pdf

gary

you can also find the rules here altho there are slight differences in equipment specs the attached file is more explicit

D R Greysun
05-17-2009, 02:12 AM
here it is D R along with a few others so i don't have to cut and paste and mess stuff up just hope it works http://www.nrahq.org/compete/rules/fullbore_07.pdf

gary

you can also find the rules here altho there are slight differences in equipment specs the attached file is more explicit

Thanx Gary, To clarify NRA Full Bore (2007-2009) rule, Sec. 22; 3.4 (b) F/TR 'Rests' makes no mention of 'Spikes', 'Pod Claws' etc.
Referencing ICFRA rules is a bit miss leading don't you think? The question was about F/TR not to be confused with ICFRA F/"Restricted". Let me guess you are from 'far' North Arkansas. :D

D R

earl39
05-17-2009, 02:50 AM
LA thats lower arkansas and a wee bit back in the boonies to boot and yes i guess it could be a bit misleading but you are talking U. S. rules compared to international rules. and as our home grown rules only really differ in bullet weight and i belive in max caliber then there is no reason to suspect that anything not stated as being different from the international would not be allowed therefore the use of international rules to base my answer on. now on further study i have found that the newest edition of international rules also leave out any mention of spikes in ft/r but still mention them in f open. with that thought in mind if i had to make a ruling on it as to is it legal i would still have to say yes IMHO since it was allowed but just not mentioned in the newest set of rules. lucky me i am not going to have to make that ruling tho. and what is ft/r but another way to say restricted. we are restricted to 223 or 308 and rucksack, bag or bipod to shoot from. and no i really don't want to get in a heated debate over it.

D R Greysun
05-17-2009, 11:59 PM
and what is ft/r but another way to say restricted.

F/TR= F Class, Target-Rifle!

D R

D R Greysun
05-20-2009, 02:31 PM
LA thats lower arkansas and a wee bit back in the boonies to boot and yes i guess it could be a bit misleading but you are talking U. S. rules compared to international rules. and as our home grown rules only really differ in bullet weight and i belive in max caliber then there is no reason to suspect that anything not stated as being different from the international would not be allowed therefore the use of international rules to base my answer on. now on further study i have found that the newest edition of international rules also leave out any mention of spikes in ft/r but still mention them in f open. with that thought in mind if i had to make a ruling on it as to is it legal i would still have to say yes IMHO since it was allowed but just not mentioned in the newest set of rules. lucky me i am not going to have to make that ruling tho. and what is ft/r but another way to say restricted. we are restricted to 223 or 308 and rucksack, bag or bipod to shoot from. and no i really don't want to get in a heated debate over it.

No heat Earl, maybe it's just my 'conservative thinking' but I would assume (now don't go there :)) that spikes were removed from the ICFRA F/Tr Rules to bring them more in line the NRA F/TR rules. I suppose if you are growing your own rules you can have them anyway you want. Good Shooting Earl!

D R

earl39
05-20-2009, 11:21 PM
No heat Earl, maybe it's just my 'conservative thinking' but I would assume (now don't go there :)) that spikes were removed from the ICFRA F/Tr Rules to bring them more in line the NRA F/TR rules. I suppose if you are growing your own rules you can have them anyway you want. Good Shooting Earl!

D R

D R you could be right but as stated by someone earlier good luck finding someone at the head office that knows enough about f-class and f t/r in particular to give the answer to why there is no mention of spikes. 20 X's and a good dog is all a man really needs. May you have both.

rdsii64
09-10-2009, 08:05 PM
It dosen't really matter whether spiked pod feet are legal since there aren't any f class events with in a 400 mile radious of where I live anyway.
If I want to get into competitive shooting I am going to have to pick a different discipline.

milanuk
09-10-2009, 08:12 PM
Really. There are no NRA Prone or Palma events within 400 miles of where you live. Where exactly would that be, again?

Generally speaking, most F-Class is shot alongside Prone/Palma matches. They were there first, put in the time/effort to get the land, set up the firing lines, the target pits, etc. and usually the High Power Rifle 'match director' for a club tends to be a sling-n-iron sight shooter (I may be one of the few exceptions - I shoot a little of both). As a result, you don't see many matches listed as 'F-Class' in match bulletins, or on state schedules. With very few exceptions, you should be able to shoot at matches listed as 'Prone' or 'Palma' or 'Fullbore', though.

rdsii64
09-10-2009, 11:28 PM
that was something I did not know. I thankfully retract my statement