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David Valdina
04-26-2009, 09:26 AM
In reading some of the classified ads, I note some sellers want a bank check. Warning, although most of us here are good folks, it is common in the scam area to make up what looks lake a bank check, but isn't. To be safe, wait for the check to clear your bank, be it a bank check or a personal check. On shipping, there is a thread on RimfireCentral,com about guns damaged in shipping. I posted the below there and do so here as well.
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The latest issue of the Single Shot Rifle Journal has an article about shipping guns. And along side, is another story republished with permission from Gunmaker Magazine, which is the publication for the Custom Gunmakers Guild. What I get from these articles is that you should ship in a hard case, properly packaged, and you should ship U.S.P.S. Registered Mail, Insured. Registered Mail takes a bit longer to get there as the mail is signed for by anyone who handles it and is locked up when not in transit. I used to work for Pete Harvey who held up to 4 gun auctions a year. I have shipped hundreds of guns via UPS insured with made for purpose cardboard packing cases. I don't ever recall a gun damaged in transit. But I do recall some clients would send us a hard case and ask that we use it to ship their purchases. And one time I shipped a few guns to myself, via my daughter who lives in Arizona, and I used a padlock lockable aluminum case, shipping taped as well to hold down the padlock etc. and that was UPS insured. I probably have been lucky, but luck is improved by making good decisions and following up as required.

vicvanb
04-26-2009, 09:46 AM
Cashier's checks if fraudulent may take a month or two for the bank to determine that they are frauds and deduct the money from your account. The bank where you cash it may declare it has "cleared" after 5-7 days when it really hasn't. The only certain way to guarantee funds is with a US Post Office money order.

Fed Ex overnight shipping (air) is expensive but very seldom results in damage or loss. The damage rate on UPS ground shipping of long guns is high. US Post Office Express Mail (2-day delivery) is reliable and safe but registered mail is virtually fail safe.

WSnyder
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
A postal Money Order may be a safer bet. Harder to forge than a bank check. Once cashed at the post office I ship. If the post office cashes it, it is then their worry if it is good or not. It's a little bit more of a pain for buyer and seller to get one but may be worth it.

Big Al
04-26-2009, 05:25 PM
Postal money orders are hands down the best and safest way to play this game. First they are proof in any court in the land that payment was made. Second they are proof they were negotiated. Best of all they bring the fed into play, if there is any fraud. Cheapest way to go, for a lot of protection.

For less than a couple of bucks, that is a lot of protection.

Geo.OR
04-26-2009, 05:48 PM
ANY bogus transaction using US Postal Service constitutes federal mail fraud. Buyers need to understand that money orders don't protect you against fraud. Once the money order is cashed, the bank or post office is out of the transactional loop -- and it becomes a civil / criminal matter.

District Attorney's office here notes that "cyber fraud" is the fastest growing racket out there. If you've been defrauded, contact your local District Atty. You'd be amazed how fast the DA can make phones on the other side of the continent ring off the hook, knocks on the door, visits from the Sheriff.

brian roberts
04-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Postal Money Orders is, if you get there early in the morning, many times they don't have 5,6,800 bucks lying in wait for you. And, when you come back later, there's usually a cruise ship that has debarked all passengers for "Mail Call". On the subject of money orders, Global Express has a good one. This MO has a thermal watermark, in addition to other safeguards that won't allow "washing" or bleaching. Plus the guy I go to for mine, will cash them for me. I DON'T like, or use, banks. :D:D;)

David Valdina
04-26-2009, 08:15 PM
Henry “Harry” Winston, a leading American jeweler and gem dealer, bought the (Hope) diamond from Mrs. McLean’s estate in 1949. In November 1958 Winston donated the diamond to the Smithsonian Institution, intending it to be the foundation for a National Jewel Collection. With his years of experience in shipping jewelry all over the world, Winston chose to have the diamond delivered by registered mail. He told a reporter for the Washington Post that “ . . . [registered mail is] the safest way to ship gems. . . . I’ve sent gems all over the world that way.”

The diamond was placed in a box, wrapped in brown paper, and sent by registered mail, traveling down from New York in a Railway Post Office train car. In Washington, it was immediately taken to the City Post Office (the building that now houses the National Postal Museum), where it was picked up by postal carrier James G. Todd.

Todd drove the package to the National Museum of Natural History. The diamond was handed over in a ceremony including Leonard Carmichael, Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution and Mrs. Harry Winston. The transfer was completed when Carmichael signed the receipt for the registered package. The price paid for shipping the gem, valued at $1 million at the time, was $145.29, most of that for package insurance.

For further reading:
The Hope Diamond Wrapper >>(Plain brown wrapping paper)

John Kielly
04-26-2009, 08:23 PM
I wonder how Leupold shipped my scope back to my dealer after repair. It vanished from the face of the earth, but I did get a new replacement scope from the dealer. :confused:

brian roberts
04-26-2009, 10:25 PM
but the packaging got too wet, and the porpoise lost interest. :D:D;)

John Kielly
04-26-2009, 10:28 PM
...so they lost it on porpoise?

Interesting, there was a story going round at about the same time that a 6 pack of Nightforces went west.

Rustystud
04-27-2009, 06:20 AM
I had a customer in Italy who wanted to do a bank wire transfer once.

It was a $225.00 sale item. When the buyers bank and my bank finished with all their charges, they clipped me for about $85.00 in service charges.

On international sales it is safer and less expensive to do a International Postal Money order.

Nat Lambeth

brian roberts
05-03-2009, 03:25 PM
that wire transfers are only cheap for, "drug kingpins" & "money launderers". Honest guys should always use more "transparent" methods to remain "above suspicion". ;):D

abintx
05-04-2009, 07:55 PM
In reading some of the classified ads, I note some sellers want a bank check. Warning, although most of us here are good folks, it is common in the scam area to make up what looks lake a bank check, but isn't. To be safe, wait for the check to clear your bank, be it a bank check or a personal check. On shipping, there is a thread on RimfireCentral,com about guns damaged in shipping. I posted the below there and do so here as well.
============================================
The latest issue of the Single Shot Rifle Journal has an article about shipping guns. And along side, is another story republished with permission from Gunmaker Magazine, which is the publication for the Custom Gunmakers Guild. What I get from these articles is that you should ship in a hard case, properly packaged, and you should ship U.S.P.S. Registered Mail, Insured. Registered Mail takes a bit longer to get there as the mail is signed for by anyone who handles it and is locked up when not in transit. I used to work for Pete Harvey who held up to 4 gun auctions a year. I have shipped hundreds of guns via UPS insured with made for purpose cardboard packing cases. I don't ever recall a gun damaged in transit. But I do recall some clients would send us a hard case and ask that we use it to ship their purchases. And one time I shipped a few guns to myself, via my daughter who lives in Arizona, and I used a padlock lockable aluminum case, shipping taped as well to hold down the padlock etc. and that was UPS insured. I probably have been lucky, but luck is improved by making good decisions and following up as required.

Good info on shipping from 6mmBR.com:

GENERAL--Shipping Guns and Gun Components: Gunsmith Nat Lambeth ("RustyStud" on our Shooters' Forum) offers the following advice for readers who need to ship rifles or major gun components (actions, barrels etc.) to gunsmiths or repair facilities: "You have several options when shipping your guns to and from a Gunsmith. I've tried them all and had problems with them all. Here are some pointers:

1. Always package your unloaded firearm so that it is not loose and can't work itself loose during transport. I recommend, at minimum, you use a hardcase inside a cardboard box. You can order a hard case from any of the 6mmBR.com website catalog advertisers. It will come in a nice cardboard box. Just open the end and slide it out. Put your gun in the plastic hard case (after oiling the metal parts) and slide it back into the box. Then tape and relabel the box. Make sure marking on the box does NOT identify the contents as a gun. (You may be required to identify the contents to the shipping company or U.S. Postal Service clerk however.) For a very expensive gun, consider using a wood shipping crate. I will be making some shipping cases from plywood and foam line them. I will have to charge my customer a deposit and when they return the shipping crate I will return their deposit.

2. Pack individual components carefully, and enclose them in separate bubble wrap (or styrofoam) if there is any chance the parts can contact one another. Your editor had an experience where the finish of a fine, blued handgun was ruined because the repair facility had placed old, replaced trigger parts loosely in a foam-lined case with the handgun. During shipping these spare parts worked back and forth, gouging and scratching the pistol.

3. Confirm the recipient's address BEFORE you ship. Individuals and businesses change locations all the time. Don't assume an address you used a few months ago is still valid. It's tempting to use old addresses that are pre-configured in the UPS or Fedex web-based shipping programs, but you should always confirm address validity prior to shipping.

4. Always put the sender's and recipient's telephone number on the outside of the box with the address. I have neighbors call me all the time saying I have a box that was delivered to them by mistake. If there is any way the label could be torn off or ripped, write the number on the cardboard with a felt pen.

5. Always send your packages insured for full replacement value. Take time-dated pictures of the contents before you ship. (This is yet one more reason to get an inexpensive digital camera, such as the Canon 550.) If you're shipping a firearm with special collectors' value, deluxe wood, or engraving, be sure you have detailed, high-quality photos of the item so you can prove its worth.

6. Always send firearms and expensive components "Adult Signature Required" if by FedEx, UPS, or DHL. If they are sent via U.S. Postal Service, send them restricted delivery. This insures a tracking number and verification they got to their destination. If you ship USPS, it's not a bad idea to pay a little extra for the green return receipt. That's one more piece of evidence that works in your favor if the recipient claims non-delivery. The green card also reminds the carrier to confirm the address.

7. Keep all your shipping documentation for a year after the package has been received. There could be a unseen damage that turns up several months down the road. This illustrates the importance of carefully inspecting items you receive immediately. Don't let a box sit around for days before you open it.

8. Handguns are by law required to be sent by common carrier (unless you are an FFL holder). Most of the common carriers have their own rules requiring overnight or next day delivery. Long guns can be sent by ground and you can use the U.S. Postal Service. Companies such as FEDEX and UPS may try to stick you with a higher cost shipping bill by claiming that rifles and shotguns must go next day or air. That is not true. Long guns can be shipped via ground. Do check local laws however--California has special rules regarding ARs and registered "assault weapons".

9. Keep an eye on your gun by monitoring the tracking number. You can do this online with FEDEX, UPS, and USPS. If your package does not reach its intended destination, when it is supposed to be there, then initiate a trace right away. Don't wait.

When Something Goes Wrong--Filing Claims. In my experience it takes from 7 days to 10 months to get a settlement on a claim. Don't hesitate to take a shipper to small claims court if necessary. If the shipper gives you the run-around, filing a small claims action may be the best $40.00 you can spend. It only costs $40.00 to start a small claims action and the subpoena is another $5 bucks. Usually sending a subpoena to an officer will result in a rapid settlement. It is cheaper for the carrier to settle than have their corporate bigwig stuck in some small claims action. Realize the carrier usually is not the insurer.

I have had two claims within the last 10 weeks and neither has been settled yet. In both cases the barreled action was double-boxed ,and in one case it was also inside a piece of schedule 80 PVC pipe and was broken. The other was in a double-walled cardboard box. The action was bent at the action barrel juncture, it now looks like a boomerang. The muzzle was pushed through six layers of double wall corrugated box. ***I quit using UPS over a year ago.*** Depending on how FEDEX settles these last two claims, I'll decide whether I use their services again.

Your editor prefers FEDEX as he has found that they paid non-delivery claims swiftly and at full value. One thing for sure, if you use USPS you have the Postal Inspectors and the BATF looking for your gun if it is lost." :)

tim
05-04-2009, 08:13 PM
If you have anything in the way of a high grade gun being shipped there is but one gold standard. UPS and Fedex both have stiffed people on claims. Registered, insured requires a signature for every soul that touches it. The insurance rates are absurdly low compared to the other two for one simple reason, after 9/11 the risk of loss is about as low as it gets under current postal security requirements. I'd rather not have a claim rather than trying to get paid on one.
More than a few anti-gun wack jobs working for the other two that believe it is their moral right to abuse anything they suspect as a firearm being shipped. I know this to be a fact for what it's worth.

Pete Wass
05-04-2009, 08:25 PM
UPS when they instituted the HAZMAT charge. Either something is safe to ship or it isn't and they take no extra precautions to handle Hazmat stuff we use. They instigated this so I have used USPS since and had NO PROBLEMS. Screw UPS. I always ask for USPS when I order form distributors and NEVER send anything UPS.

David Valdina
05-07-2009, 12:19 PM
I had a rifle to ship today, Massachusetts to Nebraska. Value $1,300. I had a hard case and packed it well, but had no cardboard box so it couldn't go USPS Registered & Insured, but if it had been able to the cost would have been $55. I sent it the least expensive of the 3 levels of UPS Next Day Air, Insured and the cost was $114. I guess if I have more to ship, I should invest in some shipping cartons.

Lynn
05-07-2009, 01:16 PM
When you go to ship anything open your front door and throw the package as far as you can.The shippers are going to do this many many times before it reaches its final destination but nobody seems to believe them when they say we are throwing the mail.

If it rattles or can slide around inside of the package it is packaged wrong.
99.98% of all the problems with shipping something is due to poor packaging.You would be shocked at how many people put photos inside an envelope to ship them and ten complain when they get creased.Don't be cheap be safe.
Lynn