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jaybic
04-17-2009, 12:16 PM
Hello all,

I have seen it said on here that certain factory rifles(Rem 700s and Savages)lend themselves to being accurized better than others. Can I rebarrel/true and pillar bed my Abolt micro-hunter to a comparable level of accuracy or am I wasting my time and money? If its not a worthy action to begin with, I am not going to bother with it.

I am on a quest for the ultimate light weight pencil barrel coyote calling rifle(lots of walking...short and quick are a must) in 22-250(or maybe 22br...suggestions???) that is a consistant 1/2 moa gun(or at least close).

What say you all? You want to build the ultimate 1/2 inch coyote rifle that weighs in at 7lbs +/-...20-22inch bbl...ect..ect. Where would you start?

Thanks guys,

Jamie

david dumas
04-17-2009, 08:23 PM
I've never seen a rifle that a good bedding job didn't help, I've done 8-10 different a-bolts, thier not BR guns but a nice 1/2 to 1 inch grouping hunting gun, sometimes better with a well tuned handload. for a yote tote gun, savage, rem or a-bolt in 223 or 22-250,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD

Ernie
04-17-2009, 08:50 PM
1st question......do you handload?

brian roberts
04-17-2009, 08:51 PM
but, you could start with an M70, or a 700 short. I'd go with a good quality Featherweight or #1 contour Chrome-Moly barrel. CM because of the weight you stipulated, & you'd run into lots of resistance from some makers on that light'a stainless barrel. I have used mostly McMillans, but I don't know what they have for Brownings now. The Browning action shouldn't be too much of a problem, I've been told their actions were rather straight, but have never used one. As far as a short barrel on a .22-250, that's a big waste of powder, flash & noise to put that in such a short barrel. I'd be more inclined to go w/a .204, a .222 Mag, or a .17FB. I built up an '06 once using a 670 Winchester, it went 8-1/4Lbs. w/five rounds, sling, & 2.2-9 Kahles; could have made it 7 or a bit less if the owner had listened to me on the stock. I used a McMillan copy of the Win. FW stock, but instead of foam-filled, he adamantly specified solid. Just my take w/out any up to date research on other stocks. ;)

jaybic
04-17-2009, 10:22 PM
Yes ,I do handload.

Alaninga
04-23-2009, 07:20 AM
I would tell you that all those years I spent tinkering with handloads and factory rifles.......good enough for under 1 moa most of the time.
HOWEVER, the good looking girl won't go out with you until you ask her.....my way of saying...have an aftermarket BARREL fit to your rifle and start out AHEAD.
I'm not saying factory barrels won't produce. Some will. But you will usually be very happy with taking the step that will really crank up your rifle's accuracy--a HIGH QUALITY BARREL.
You can let out some of the air pressure on your riding lawnmower's tires and it will ride smoother, but it won't ever ride like a Honda Accura until you GET the Honda Accura.
Don't cheat yourself, try a great aftermarket barrel and use the factory barrel as something to support tomato vines.
Ok, I've used some odd ways of explaining my views,,,but my coffee cup is empty and caffeine is my brain's fuel.:)

VarmintGuy
04-23-2009, 06:15 PM
Jaybic: Jamie I have several Remington 700 Classics that would fill your bill - including those in 222 Remington (2 of these), 223 Remington, 22-250 Remington and in the past I owned another in 220 Swift. They all shot Varmint bullets into groups (5 shots at 100 yards) measuring well under 1".
I have killed Coyotes with all of them.
Just do a trigger job and find a Coyote bullet that shoots accurately in your chosen Remington 700 Classic and go Coyote Hunting.
I get ALL the accuracy I need from these "walking type Varminters"!
For the last decade I stay as far away from the custom barrel makers and the Riflesmiths as I can possibly get!
I get excellent accuracy from my factory Rifles and some judicious handloading.
I also have a wonderful European manufactured Weatherby MarkV in caliber 224 Weatherby Magnum that would fill your bill also.
This Rifle is now worth twice what I paid for it!
I used to have a 4x12 variable Leupold scope on it but it now has a straight 6 power Leupold scope with heavy Du-Plex and this "walking Varminter also does splendid duty when I am night calling/spot lighting!
It has shot 1/2" groups with the older scope and has yet to miss a Coyote with the new 6X scope!
A pencil barreled Rifle that shoots 1/2" groups would be nice for Coyote Hunting but is not necessary in my experience.
I also have a real "pencil barreled" Browning (with Sako action and three step down barrel) all factory stock Rifle in caliber 222 Remington Magnum that has shot many Coyotes in the past. It also is worth much more than I paid for it.
One thing I am getting at is if you carefully shop and invest in a factory Rifle that fits your needs, your investment is likely to appreciate or hold its value very well. Rifles with after market barrels do not fair so well.
If your A-Bolt is not accurate enough for you as is, I would suggest you sell it and by another factory Rifle (even a used one) and try again.
Best of luck in your endeavor.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

roninflag
04-23-2009, 06:21 PM
my smith will only do remington or custom actions . all my rem 700 that are rebarreled shoot 1/2 or better. more stocks are available for a rem . by getting a lighter stock and scope you caN get a heavier barrel and still meet your goal. having shot 250 coyotes i would go with a 6ppc or 6mm-250 or 243. and a 2.5 X 8 leup scope. i would be worried about feed problems with the 22 br.

Alaninga
04-24-2009, 06:49 AM
Have you had bad experiences with this?---

"For the last decade I stay as far away from the custom barrel makers and the Riflesmiths as I can possibly get!"
.
.
what happened??

Butch Lambert
04-24-2009, 07:47 AM
If you are wanting light, here is a pic of my Grandson's receiver.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/butchlambert/DSC02354.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/butchlambert/DSC02352.jpg
This is a Remington 600 receiver that has been extensively reworked. It weighs 28oz as shown with trigger and bolt. It could be a little lighter with a standard bolt handle and the factory safety. It will be a 6x47L and it would be deadly on coyotes.
Butch

Montana Pete
04-24-2009, 08:03 AM
When you say pencil barrel, I can only assume you mean a very lightweight, very thin barrel. This term is new to me.

I have nowhere near the experience of some of these fellows posting, and certainly admit that.

I own about eight centerfire rifles, ranging from heavy barrel thru light, 22-inch sporter barrels. I also belong to two clubs and see targets other shooters fire.

It seems like a stretch to me to get 1/2 MOA accuracy out of a featherweight rifle with a light, whippy barrel.

I won't say it can't be done. But I have never seen it.

Rifles that can deliver this level of accuracy generally tend to have at least medium-weight barrels.

It doesn't help that it is difficult to steady down a very light rifle at the shooting bench. To get such groups, your aiming error has to be about zero.

It's like the "search for the holy grail." I hope you find it.

You will enjoy experimenting!

jaybic
04-24-2009, 08:06 AM
Thanks for the ideas fellas,

Varmintguy,

I wish it were that simple but being left-handed, getting almost any of the "Nice guns" from Rem is pretty much impossible. I have a 700 rebarreled with a Krieger in .308 and the thing shoots just phenomenal but is not a good walking coyote gun. Too heavy, too long and too big a caliber. If I were to do it again, I would have went to a pencil barrel in 22-250(its original cal)and gotten ad new lighter stock and been set but alas, inexperience got the best of me and now I have a tack-driving .308 that is too cumbersome to take hunting and will blow a coyote into confetti. I did all this because "my new Abolt's gonna be a 1/2 inch rifle". ITS NOT.

Anyway, I figure I have two choices and both are somewhat expensive, the 2nd on being more so I suspect.

1. rebarrel and bed the Abolt and see if it comes around. May work, may not. Depends on if an Abolt action is even a "quality" action to build on. I dont know. Or I could:

2. get me hands on a lefty 700 and build a rifle I am sure will shoot with pieces from Boyd, Shilen/Krieger/Douglas, Jewel and a good pillar bedding job.

I would love to be able to buy something off the shelf but in looking at the top 2 accurate factory rifles, the 700 and the Savage lines, in both cases, left-handed shooters seem to be second class citizens in terms of models and features offered. I want the trick one with all the bells and whistles too just like the right handed crowd gets and I understand its a market thing.

Oh well, Thanks again,

Jamie

jaybic
04-24-2009, 08:12 AM
BTW,

Butch, that is one fine looking piece of work. I would be tickled pink to have my granddad build me something like that. He is lucky. What is a 6x47 anyway?(demonstration of my ignorance here:)).

I have spoken to Mr. Stiller and it sounds like he can/does make a left-handed Predator action that I could use instead of a 700 action if I go the "build up" route instead of the "fix up the Abolt and hope you didnt waste your money" route.

Jamie

roninflag
04-24-2009, 09:36 AM
the 6X47 used to be a 222 rem necked to 6mm. i think the one they are talking about is the new 6.5X47 lapua necked down to 6mm. either of these two woud be good. sell the a-bolt get a 700 LH. put krieger barrel and a shilen trigger. get a stock and scope that fit your weight criteria.

Pete Wass
04-24-2009, 11:39 AM
I don't see how anyone could beat simply buying a Savage in either .223 or 22-250. I have a Stevens .223 that shoots so well it's scarry, especially when one looks down the barrel with the borescope ! I have custom rifles I spent thousands on that do not shoot any better. :(

jaybic
04-24-2009, 12:05 PM
Anyone have any idea what is considered "reasonable" to pay for a left-handed 700 action?

I have no idea.

Thanks again,

Jamie

roninflag
04-25-2009, 06:35 PM
right handers have more choices. that are NEAR to what you describe. i shot a sako in both 222 and 222mag for years. petite guns . the model 7 and 600 are also a little lighter action. but they take a one piece scope mount. i prefer a two piece and the one piece mount is heavier. to get what you want will cost a little more. i would shop for a used or new WHOLE gun . roninflag

ForneyRider
05-04-2009, 12:29 PM
There was an article in Reloader Journal about a .223 built by Charlie Sisk of Dayton, TX that shoots tight and weighs 6.5lbs or so. It is a walking varmint gun for about $5600.

Pete Wass
05-09-2009, 06:09 PM
There was an article in Reloader Journal about a .223 built by Charlie Sisk of Dayton, TX that shoots tight and weighs 6.5lbs or so. It is a walking varmint gun for about $5600.

In a nice lamanated stock is in the $400 catagory! I got a mailing from Cabelas which had a cupon for them. Many of them shoot scarry good.

jo191145
05-09-2009, 11:55 PM
Gotta agree with Pete on this. Savage Weather Warrior (6.5lbs) or American Classic (7lbs) make light left handed shooters in coyote calibers..
I'm not sure about the weather warriors stock. If its the usual flexy plastic stock you'd be better off with the wood.
I'd be interested in the new Accu-Stock technology for your uses.

If its not an accu-stock bed it and shoot it. If it still won't shoot to your liking order a custom prefit tube and a wrench and have at it.
If you prefer to spend a ton of cash on a .5 moa yote gun thats your option.
Its surely not required tho.

Fireball Fred
05-10-2009, 06:51 AM
i have to agree with Pete. i got a stevens 200 SA in 223 and it is accurate enough for g-hogs or yotes to 250 yds. i paid give or take roughly 200 for my rifle new. Fred

P Corncob Bob
05-10-2009, 08:28 AM
Can I rebarrel/true and pillar bed my Abolt micro-hunter to a comparable level of accuracy or am I wasting my time and money? If its not a worthy action to begin with, I am not going to bother with it.

Jaybic:

I agree they those that feel Remington 700's are much to heavy for a "walk about" rifle, and appreciate what you are attempting to do.

I have never heard of an A-bolt that did not shoot well, not saying there might be some out there.

My gunsmith whom trues a good number of actions and rebarrels same, mentioned he had only trued just a few A-bolt actions in 10 years or more. He also mentioned when truing a A-bolt action, very little is needed as tolerances are tight.

Personally I know several people with A-bolts and they will not part with them, which I feel speaks highly of Browning's quality and quality control.

I would recommend following:

Thorough cleaning a barrel using solvents for powder, copper, and carbon fouling.

Try Reloader 19 powder. Velocity may "slightly" suffer, but in my experience accuracy picks up. Be prepared to clean bore with those solvents listed above after every 25 rounds or so. Consistent bullet tension and bull seating depth are key. If you use a ram type press, ensure consistent operation each time a bullet is seated.

Inspection of optics and associated mounting. If you have a Leupold scope, have them inspect and repair any mechanical looseness.

Inspect trigger to break consistently at same pull weight. Inconsistent pull weight is indicator of trigger, sear, or firing pin problems. This sometimes can be corrected by cleaning. Adjust trigger pull weight to as light and consistent as "safely" possible.

Do not float barrel as accuracy for lightweight contours in my experience seem to like being tight. Torque action screws to a known inch pound setting. 35 inch pounds would be a good place to start.

None of above should cost that much, so you wouldn't be wasting your time or money, and most certainly wouldn't be waiting a couple of lifetimes for something you may not be satisfied with.

Hope this helps ?

Cob

RugerOldArmy
05-14-2009, 08:59 PM
Bad Advice:


Jaybic: Jamie I have several Remington 700 <snip>
I get ALL the accuracy I need from these "walking type Varminters"!
For the last decade I stay as far away from the custom barrel makers and the Riflesmiths as I can possibly get!
<snip>
VarmintGuy

...and it doesn't seem genuine...

Yet in this (http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61393) post:


<snip>
I had a full custom Varmint Rifle built in caliber 17 MachIV on a Remington 700 action.
It was going to have a 26 1/2" Lilja barrel fitted to it.
Unfortunately the Lilja folks had shut down their 17 caliber barrel making for a time and I had to re-order a barrel through the fine folks at Shilen.
My barrel is also heavy of contour and is 26 1/2" long - recoil is NOT a problem with this wonderful shooting Rifle!
Using "un-sorted" Remington 221 Fireball brass I obtain excellent accuracy with this Rifle!
<snip>
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Consistent BS, lol, gotta love VG's posts.


Better advice:


I would tell you that all those years I spent tinkering with handloads and factory rifles.......good enough for under 1 moa most of the time.
HOWEVER, the good looking girl won't go out with you until you ask her.....my way of saying...have an aftermarket BARREL fit to your rifle and start out AHEAD.
I'm not saying factory barrels won't produce. Some will. But you will usually be very happy with taking the step that will really crank up your rifle's accuracy--a HIGH QUALITY BARREL.

<snip>

Don't cheat yourself, try a great aftermarket barrel and use the factory barrel as something to support tomato vines.
<snip>

tricrown
05-15-2009, 08:32 PM
We have a Deer rifle class at our shoots for some years now. A lot of different sporter rifles have been on the line. Tikka T3 Lights at a little over 6lbs. are very popular and in general outshoot any other factory sporter gun in the $500 range. Many, probably most, will be close to a ˝” 3 shoot average at 100 yards. If you have $300 more, Sako’s new A7s weigh in under 6.5 lbs. With either you could be ready to go out of the box.

onomrbil
05-16-2009, 02:42 PM
First, some rifles respond to a precision rebuild differently. I had a Remington 700 trued by one of the gunsmiths you will find listed on this site. We used the new factory barrel and trigger, etc., and when the dust settled I had an acceptable varmint rifle. Not great, mind you, but good enough to hit chucks with. Another factory rifle done by the same gunsmith was a Type 99 Arisaka that had started life in the late 1950s as a 22-250. We installed a Brux barrel, did nothing to true the action, did nothing to the Timney trigger, chambered the thing in 22-250, and got a rifle that shoots right along with my top-notch varmint rifles. Go figure...