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jackie schmidt
04-12-2009, 10:02 PM
Three Head Shots!! Three dead Pirates!!

One freed American Ship Captain. And as we learn more about his actions and conduct,, a true American Hero.

And, kudos to President Obama for making the command decision to allow our great Military to do it's job.......jackie

Now, let's hope he has the courage to finish the job and clean out that den of thieves for good.........jackie

Geo.OR
04-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Watched the Fox News report about the SEALS snipers, but hard to tell what is fact and what is conjecture. Would be nice to know what they were shooting, caliber, and range.

-- And if they're shooting off a rolling deck.

The word I get from Associated Press, is twenty-five yards off the fantail. Three snipers, three head shots.

RStiefel
04-13-2009, 09:23 AM
Three Head Shots!! Three dead Pirates!!

One freed American Ship Captain. And as we learn more about his actions and conduct,, a true American Hero.

And, kudos to President Obama for making the command decision to allow our great Military to do it's job.......jackie

Now, let's hope he has the courage to finish the job and clean out that den of thieves for good.........jackie
I agree completely!!!

Big Al
04-13-2009, 09:47 AM
The idiots reading the news were embarrassing, saying that the 25 meter shots were "long range" sniper shots. The seals were probably asking if they could take off their scopes, cause they couldn't tell which hair was which at 25 meters.


No matter what went down, the world is shocked that the U.S. came out on top for a change.

Well down, Navy Seals.

I got a real kick out of the rest of the story this morning. Seems what they said yesterday, ain't the same as we hear today. The pirate they were negotiating with (the 14-16 year old kid) Went on board the ship to call home. As he was eating his sandwich and waving at his buddies on the other boat, was when the seals took out his pards

I got a charge at how stupid these people where. They let them tow them cause they were drifting back to the coast where other pirates planned to kill them and take away their captive.


I guess the drugs these folks take does have and effect on the brain.

jGEE
04-13-2009, 09:51 AM
It is a great story -a lot of things had to fall in place and they did, hats off to our Navy. Mr.Jackie nice of you to mention our Commander in Chief -i have tried to keep an open mind with the new guy, the President gets a +1 from me also.

The latest news i read the administration is backing off the gun ban issue -the press says they got too much heat from the NRA and other 2nd amendment groups. Have to wait and see but it is good news if true.

Not to be too groose here but the the news shows 3 shots thru the window of the orange rescue ship the captain was in. This is kinda dumb but on TV you see sniper kills thru plate glass windows. Do we have bullets that don't deflect when they hit glass. You would think the rescue capsize ship the pirates were in would have fairly thick glass.

Would you have 2 snipers in tandem, one for the glass and the next for the kill? I hope this question ain't out of line for the forum. joe :confused:

Big Al
04-13-2009, 10:02 AM
I think it was plastic or plexiglass, as most 20 foot craft don't use real glass for life rafts?

RStiefel
04-13-2009, 10:05 AM
The idiots reading the news were embarrassing, saying that the 25 meter shots were "long range" sniper shots. The seals were probably asking if they could take off their scopes, cause they couldn't tell which hair was which at 25 meters.

No matter what went down, the world is shocked that the U.S. came out on top for a change.

Well down, Navy Seals.

I got a real kick out of the rest of the story this morning. Seems what they said yesterday, ain't the same as we hear today. The pirate they were negotiating with (the 14-16 year old kid) Went on board the ship to call home. As he was eating his sandwich and waving at his buddies on the other boat, was when the seals took out his pards

I got a charge at how stupid these people where. They let them tow them cause they were drifting back to the coast where other pirates planned to kill them and take away their captive.


I guess the drugs these folks take does have and effect on the brain.
IMO, our President did the right thing, the right way. He gave the first go ahead on Friday, a second go ahead on Saturday, and broke the camels back on Easter Sunday. He didn't go public prior to his decision. Our President has made clear to the world that we won't put up with this kind of behavior. It appears our President won't receive the credit he deserves due to so many who want him to fail. If he fails, we as a country fail.

chino69
04-13-2009, 10:19 AM
I was glad to see the skipper of the American Navy ship make the decision to take the bad guys out and the Seals did what they do best; eliminating the bad guys. Cowards, pirates, terrorists never fare well when they come up against the warrior elite which is why they strike from the shadows.

I was impressed with Obama's stand and have also been keeping an open mind about him. I don't instinctively think Obama is the weak leader the press is trying to paint him as. There is something about his stance and deameanor that tells me under his surface there just may lurk a steely resolve. The world will present him with plenty of opportunity(s) to measure his full character.

Lou Baccino

Larry Elliott
04-13-2009, 10:51 AM
Three cheers to the USN and SEALS, and to Obama for allowing them to do their jobs.

Interesting listening to the reporter from National People's Radio yesterday asking the Navy Vice Admiral at the news conference what those poor pirates did that deserved shooting. I'm sure that we'll have someone upset that they were killed without them actually having killed anyone on the Maersk Alabama.

333smitty
04-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Watched the Fox News report about the SEALS snipers, but hard to tell what is fact and what is conjecture. Would be nice to know what they were shooting, caliber, and range.

-- And if they're shooting off a rolling deck.

The word I get from Associated Press, is twenty-five yards off the fantail. Three snipers, three head shots.

mmmm My guess would be Knight's Armarment SR-25 (Stoner Rifle) Mark ll MOD-0/308cal created by the "Father of the M-16" Eugene Stoner and C Reed Knight with Leupold optics.....;)

Here is a video of a SR-25 MK ll MOD 0 with night vision.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFRnHgiXWRs

jaybic
04-13-2009, 02:19 PM
About time it was handled the right way.

The SEALS pretty much summed up how it should be done and, I dont know but I think thats pretty stellar shooting all things considered even if it was only 25 yards.

Many factors to consider:
1. dark
2. shooting off a moving ship
3. shooting at a live moving targe on a second moving ship
4. tremendous pressure to not screw up an get a hostage killed
5. did it 3 times nearly simultaniously
6. thru glass or plexiglass or what ever.
7. no luxury of getting close. They had to hit the X ring so a wounded pirate doesnt kill a hostage.

Funny, when I was in the USMC, there was always that inter-service rivalry and the occasional brawl and 99% of the time the sailers didnt do well. Oddly enough, none of the jarheads(myself included) ever got too mouthy when the SEALS were in the neighborhood. Calling a SEAL "seaman"(we used a different spelling) was a good way to end up with knots on your head.

Jamie

Paul Fielder
04-13-2009, 03:36 PM
About time it was handled the right way.

The SEALS pretty much summed up how it should be done and, I dont know but I think thats pretty stellar shooting all things considered even if it was only 25 yards.

Many factors to consider:
1. dark
2. shooting off a moving ship
3. shooting at a live moving targe on a second moving ship
4. tremendous pressure to not screw up an get a hostage killed
5. did it 3 times nearly simultaniously
6. thru glass or plexiglass or what ever.
7. no luxury of getting close. They had to hit the X ring so a wounded pirate doesnt kill a hostage.

Funny, when I was in the USMC, there was always that inter-service rivalry and the occasional brawl and 99% of the time the sailers didnt do well. Oddly enough, none of the jarheads(myself included) ever got too mouthy when the SEALS were in the neighborhood. Calling a SEAL "seaman"(we used a different spelling) was a good way to end up with knots on your head.

Jamie

Do we know 100% how it went down.....I assumed 5.56 from short range in the water. Purely speculation.

jaybic
04-13-2009, 04:06 PM
Paul,

Im not sure if this is how it went down or not. Have you heard different? I guess the only people who really know is the people that were there and the CO getting the after-action report from this particular SEAL team.

This is simply what I am taking from a collection of different news entities and putting it together but I imagine most of it is close. They do know it was a watercraft to watercraft shot and it only makes sense for it to be dark so the SEALS would have the NVG advantage.

Could be any of those calibers but quite likely .308 or 5.56.

The rest of us will only know when the movie comes out I guess.

Either way, it turned out good for the good guys and bad for the bad guys.

Jamie

Larry Elliott
04-13-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm sure that however it went down or with what equipment the mainstream media would love to broadcast it worldwide so that our special ops people wouldn't have any sort of advantage anywhere. They have an unfair advantage that they shouldn't have which allows them to head shoot poor defenseless Somali pirates (and others too likely). :eek: We need to even things up so that the pirates/terrorists are so disadvantaged.... :rolleyes:

jGEE
04-13-2009, 04:22 PM
When the pirates hooked up to the Navy ship, it was over. How do you make that kind of shot in the middle of the ocean?

My thoughts -you drag to the calmest water -right down the bottom of the trough -parallel to the waves. I bet the Captain of the Navy ship knew just how to drag to the bottom of the trough -'yawin with the wave travel You would go thru where the target behind you is dead still -they ain't gonna need but seconds for the targets to "freeze".

I still would like to know how they shot thru glass/plexiglass without the bullet being deflected? I would think you would need 2 very qucik shots back to back, one to break the glass the other for the target. I looked up the Sniper rifle someone suggested.. it was a semi auto maybe even full auto??

joe :eek:

Paul Fielder
04-13-2009, 04:27 PM
No, I don't know...I don't trust the media reports.

I'm pretty sure the delay for action was for 100% chance of captain survival and my thinking (only from reading Lone Survivor and other books) to get a glimpse of the SEAL mindset was that the frog men were under that boat since they touched down on the sceen.

They may not want us to know in case a future operation comes down the pipe. Initail reports were the capt. made it to the water again (under darkness) and My assumption is as soon as the he made the splash is that lead flew when the good guy was out of the line of fire.

3 prefectly and simultanious shots from two moving vessles and 3 moving noggins makes me think a wall of lead went down from both the big ship and very close range frogs......again, just playing the situation in my head.

I wouldn't be surprised if morse code from thumps on the hull....on top and on bottom were at play.

Just fascinated by this stuff and would like to know but don't really need to.

pf
<><

2Dogs
04-13-2009, 06:02 PM
This is what Iv found out so far. The Navy Seals parashooted to the water, under the cover of darkness, swam to within 100 yrds of the Pirates and when the right oppertunity arose they took out all three pirates quickly one at a time.

Pete Wass
04-13-2009, 06:24 PM
Three Head Shots!! Three dead Pirates!!

One freed American Ship Captain. And as we learn more about his actions and conduct,, a true American Hero.

And, kudos to President Obama for making the command decision to allow our great Military to do it's job.......jackie

Now, let's hope he has the courage to finish the job and clean out that den of thieves for good.........jackie



We've been there once. I think it is all to easy to feel like we need to clean them out when what needs to be done is to make it so difficult to succeed at taking hostages they will give that up. The last thing this country needs is to get mired in another S--- Hole for years with no net results. the only way to clean that mess up is with a nuke or two.

A few years ago an entertaining gentleman presented some of us with a rant about how to make them stop. His premise was to tell them to quit or we would French Fry their kids and eat them before their eyes. His theory was folks will put up with a lot except having their kids slaughtered before their eyes. Might be interesting to try it out some place. Heaven knows they wouldn't have any compunction about doing it to us. They just haven't thought of it yet.

RStiefel
04-13-2009, 06:35 PM
They have their kids on the rafts also. The lives of their families don't mean very much to them.

Dick Grosbier
04-13-2009, 06:44 PM
Frankly I don't give a hoot who gave the order to let the Seal Team do their thing I am just happy it was done.

And my hats off to some superior shooting when the stakes were high.

Well done !!

alinwa
04-13-2009, 08:28 PM
You are the typical rush limbaugh type, sir.....

OK, KUDO'S to the SEALs........

And jeepers, what would it take to get somebody to tell me I'm a "typical Rush Limbaugh type" again since't Mr D crawled back into his dungheap??!!! It'd make my day :D

To all you liberal pinko NON-Limbaugh pantywaists all's ya gotta' do is PROVE THE RUSHMEISTER WRONG with some meaningful facts........ then you'se can badmouth him.





facts SUCK eh??

D used to carry this same limp stick....... and until this nation is bankrupt and a laughingstock to the world there will be liberal apologists voicing this insipid sentimental drivel.

NPR...... "why did those men need to die?" .....:o

Makes me angry right thar!

al

Butch Lambert
04-13-2009, 08:54 PM
I'm proud of the label Al. Does that mean that I'm racist?
Butch

alinwa
04-13-2009, 09:17 PM
I'm proud of the label Al. Does that mean that I'm racist?
Butch

you.....


you.......


YOU........


LIMBAUGH LOVER!!!!!

:D

LOL

al

Roger T
04-14-2009, 06:08 AM
The ULTIMATE AD FOR GUN CONTROL . The US NAVY SEALS, ONE SHOT ONE KILL........ KUDO'S :D:D:D

chino69
04-14-2009, 06:53 AM
Oddly enough, none of the jarheads(myself included) ever got too mouthy when the SEALS were in the neighborhood. Calling a SEAL "seaman"(we used a different spelling) was a good way to end up with knots on your head.

Jamie

Not surprising Jamie!
Marcus Luttrell, author of 'Lone Survivor', does an excellent job of describing the warrior caste mentality necessary to get through Seal training. A great true story read, if you haven't already. Marcus was the only survivor of a prolonged battle in the mountains of Afgahnistan with an overwhelming number of Taliban fighters. Every member of his team, including a rescue team were killed. His description of the firefight along with the blood and guts determination of his team summed up why Seal team washout rate is so high. It also describes the 'tenor' or spirit of one who chooses to go this route and reminds me of the Samurai code, as these noble individuals are truly from an ancient warrior caste and not to be trifled with.

Lou Baccino

Paul Fielder
04-14-2009, 07:45 AM
Not surprising Jamie!
Marcus Luttrell, author of 'Lone Survivor', does an excellent job of describing the warrior caste mentality necessary to get through Seal training. A great true story read, if you haven't already. Marcus was the only survivor of a prolonged battle in the mountains of Afgahnistan with an overwhelming number of Taliban fighters. Every member of his team, including a rescue team were killed. His description of the firefight along with the blood and guts determination of his team summed up why Seal team washout rate is so high. It also describes the 'tenor' or spirit of one who chooses to go this route and reminds me of the Samurai code, as these noble individuals are truly from an ancient warrior caste and not to be trifled with.

Lou Baccino



I too highly recommend everyone read his book...I'm about to make my 2nd go round but it is heavy. He makes me proud to be a Texan & also sad that I never served my country. I truly believe if the men behind the sceens would step out of the way and let the warriors cut loose, it would be over much faster. The rules of engaugement have their hands tied. For those that serve & have served, a really big thanks from me and my family.

I'm sure some kept up with the story of those 4 very lucky scumbags who shot his lab who he named after his buddies that died by his side. I'm glad his head stayed cool...not so sure I would have been able to knowing how attached you can get to your hunting buddies.

pf
<><

Larry Elliott
04-14-2009, 11:10 AM
Just heard that the great expert on foreign affairs and policy the Rev Al Sharpton said that those poor Somalis were their "coast guard" just trying to protect Somalia's territorial waters or something equally ridiculous. The good Rev really does need to quit smoking that strange weed or otherwise change brands.

Unfortunately, that's the sort of total stupidity and silliness that seems to infect the left. My country, always wrong.

chino69
04-14-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm sure some kept up with the story of those 4 very lucky scumbags who shot his lab who he named after his buddies that died by his side. I'm glad his head stayed cool...not so sure I would have been able to knowing how attached you can get to your hunting buddies.

pf
<><


Paul,
I saw the interview with Marcus on the Glen Beck show after his Lab pup 'Daisy' was shot and killed by those scumbags and it's good the local law enforcement were able to arrest them before they recieved what they really deserved. Luttrell chased them through four Texas counties before they were arrested. Navy Seals are a tight knit community who take care of their own. These were nothing more than white trash punks who never encountered someone willing to go the distance; they should consider themselves lucky. Anyone who saw the interview could sense that Luttrell would have been willing to dispense the justice these punks so richly deserved.

Lou Baccino

333smitty
04-14-2009, 02:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFRnHgiXWRs

Geo.OR
04-14-2009, 10:51 PM
25 yards, that's amusement park shooting gallery range. Rolling lifeboat, rolling fantail. That takes some skill, but then there's a video online of an ex military sniper taking a deer at 1,590 metres. One shot.

Headshot at 25 yds on a moving target is "skilled" but it's not phenomenal. Fire control has the snipes talking to each other to synchronize.

Douglas
04-15-2009, 04:22 AM
Man, that's a hell of a shot, 25yds or not. Think about it, at night, through a little window, all three pirates had to be in view at the same time, the hostage had to out of the way, the three snipers had to fire at the exact same time. This is the kind of stuff you only see in the movies. Thanks, Douglas

Dennis Sorensen
04-15-2009, 07:39 AM
Many years ago I read about a fire control system that would allow several rifles to be fired at the same instant... for situations just like this.

It required all of them to be electronically linked. When the decision is made to fire, each sniper holds his trigger in the fired position when he in "on target", releases the trigger if he drifts "off target". None of the linked rifles will fire until all of their respective triggers are in the fired position... at that instance they all fire.

I do not know if a system like this is being used today.

jaybic
04-15-2009, 08:55 AM
I have already heard similar things also.

Things like the SEALS rifles were gyro-stabilized just like tank main guns are, to take the rolling of the ships and targets out of the firing equasion. I dont know that that is factual or not tho. I also read that while towing the pirates lifeboat, slowly "reeled them in" closer to the snipers laying on the fantail.

Hows that Bon Jovi song go? "Shot thru the head, and your to blame, next buncha pirates, should get the same".

Funny how stupid they are anyway. Now the pirates are mad and threatening to kill American and French citizens that they may capture while taking over ships and its all because of the "aggressive actions" we made while killing their thieving buddies. "Why, what ever do you mean? we have a right to hijack ships".

I think they actually believe they do have that right. I also forgot that us being infidels, probably gives them that right in the Koran. I know they are allowed to kill infidels but can they steal from them too? Anybody know?

Jamie

P.s. Didnt they used to keel-haul pirates. Bet getting keel-hauled by a destroyer would have a piracy-curing effect.

Ackman
04-15-2009, 01:25 PM
I just finished a novel by David Stone. In one part, Somali pirates try to take the wrong ship. They plan to kill everyone except the captain and mate. Instead, half of them are killed by a no-nonsense crew. The leader is nailed at wrists and ankles spread eagle to the deck of his own boat, then aimed to sea at full throttle. The remaining pirates are stripped and put in the #2 boat to go back as a lesson to others. I'd rather they'd been kneecapped or ankled with a bullet first, then stripped and set adrift with the engines destroyed. Pirates deserve whatever brutality someone can inflict on them.

pickles
04-15-2009, 01:35 PM
it dont matter how, just thank God and pass thr ammo/

GO NAVY SEALS
Semper fi

pickles

brian roberts
04-15-2009, 01:50 PM
was shown coming down the ladder with a rifle........in a case. ;)

mike in co
04-15-2009, 11:22 PM
jackie,
my nephew is a seal, and is currently "at work". i'll have to ask how things are going....
they shoot sr25 and sr12's(308/223) some with nightvision, some with suppressors.
they have recently picked up new rifles....accuracy international's...very nice sniper rifle.
think thier long range is 300 win mag and 50mbg

the windows are probably thick plastic of some sort, but not likely bullet proof, and we do shoot some stout ammo.


mike in co

Wapiti
04-16-2009, 07:48 AM
Outststanding work by all involved! Good shooting.

I was hoping to see one of the rifles that FOX reported on that the SEALs use that's accurate to 1" at a mile.:rolleyes:

Tony Shankle
04-16-2009, 08:48 AM
:D

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/principleone/Seals.jpg

virg
04-16-2009, 09:14 PM
Is that so much information and detail is given out on this incident that the pirates will plan better next time and know what to watch for.

1. I wish the ship owners would seriously consider arming their ships with a 20mm Gattling gun with a professional gunner to man it.

2. Work out an international acknowledgment signal that if not acknowledged would result in immediate destruction of an approaching small vessel.

3. Swiftly bring to justice any captured pirates.

4. Just do it!!

virg

Dennis Sorensen
04-17-2009, 06:34 PM
http://www3.telus.net/drswebspace/Forum%20temporary%20pics/pirates.jpg

JerrySharrett
04-17-2009, 06:55 PM
Yes, the Navy guys did an outstanding job.

But, I make the argument that protecting those Container ships should not be the job of OUR US Navy. Even if the ship of of US registry.

The US Navy is not missioned to protect private enterprises. We need to quit risking US military lives just to be worlds police force.

There was a risk of loosing a billion dollar cruiser and priceless Naval personnels lives just to save a boat load of exported US jobs.

Most of the cargo on those ships is made in Communist China and the profits go to the Communist Chinese military.

http://www.conservativeusa.org/DefendFromChina.htm

read at least the first two paragraphs.

RStiefel
04-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Port, the largest and busiest in the US, is absolutely loaded with cargo vessels from China. We are the largest importer of their junk in the world. They have the largest Army and Air Force in the world, and we continue to send Billions of dollars each year to them, helping them to become even bigger and stronger?????

alan k
04-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Why didn't the Seals take out the bad guys when the captain jumped out of the boat? Check it out.

Douglas
04-18-2009, 03:22 AM
correct me if I'm wrong, were't there navy personnel aboard the Liberty Ships during WWII? They manned the 50cals, what few they had on board. Why can't our Merchant Marine personnel handle a couple 50's, they'd take out any of those little dinghys. Thanks, Douglas

K Thomas
04-18-2009, 10:22 AM
I have already heard similar things also.


I think they actually believe they do have that right. I also forgot that us being infidels, probably gives them that right in the Koran. I know they are allowed to kill infidels but can they steal from them too? Anybody know?

Jamie

P.s. Didnt they used to keel-haul pirates. Bet getting keel-hauled by a destroyer would have a piracy-curing effect.

Jaybic,

according to the Koran, they do not have the right to kill infidels, they have a duty to do so. They also are justified in lying, making truces they have no intent of honoring (there's a time limit imposed by the Koran, and it's a pause in hostilities, never permanent a cessation). And no, they don't consider it stealing from us infidels, either, but merely taking what is rightfully theirs to begin with. Bottom line in the Koran is, all's fair, so long as it furthers the ultimate aims of Islam; being the dominant force in the world, and allowing limited practice of only those "approved" religions that they are willing to tolerate, as long as said religions/followers admit their second-class status to Muslims. Anybody who wants to argue with this, don't take it up with me, take it up with Muhammad. It's in the Koran, and it's law for Muslims. Anyone who reads this (or listens to the crap from groups like CAIR) needs to understand the doctrine of abrogation, and the difference between Meccan and Medinan Suras.

That said, while the pirates are Muslims, I don't believe they are Islamic fundamentalists that strictly adhere to the Koran. They're mercenary little thugs whose earthly problems could be resolved quite nicely by a 20mm Vulcan, a Barrett .50 or an M24.

alan k
04-18-2009, 10:46 AM
Many of the countries in that area and South & Central America, for that matter, have strict rules on civilian vessels carrying firearms. In most places firearms must be declared and many ports require the guns to be turned over to the port authorities. In the case of sailing yachts this amounts to confiscation. If one bullet is found on a private yacht they will tear the boat apart looking for the gun. A few years ago a fellow was selling an insert for a flair gun that would fire a .38. Now many countries confiscate that type of distress signal. They don't want civilians shooting at their off duty police and military when they board your vessel to rob and pillage.

Al Kunard

Ackman
04-18-2009, 01:14 PM
Here's something may be of interest. Came to me from a friend who knows a person or two in the community. I'd guessed the real story would be something along these lines but this is even worse. America will be in a real unpleasant spot when a real crisis comes along.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LIMITED DISSEMINATION

Many thanks to Dick for passing this along.it reportedly comes from a "very reliable source." In any event, I thought it worthwhile reading.

Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:

1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.

2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger

3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction

4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.

5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams

6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies

7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour. As usual with him, it's BS.

So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Obama's performace to D-. Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.

Read the following accurate account.

Philips' first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn't worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country's Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his
lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors and none was taken.

The guidance from National Command Authority the president of the United States, Barack Obama had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage's life was in clear, extreme danger.

The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by
Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief's staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with
such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a "peaceful solution" would be acceptable.

After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on-scene-commander decided he'd had enough.

Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage's life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer unnamed in all media reports to date decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips' back was a threat to the hostage's life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.

Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.

There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday's dramatic rescue of an American hostage.

Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president's toughness and decisiveness.

Despite the Obama administration's (and its sycophants') attempt to spin yesterday's success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.

What should have been a standoff lasting only hours as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location became an embarrassing four day and counting
standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.

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RStiefel
04-18-2009, 09:10 PM
Please refrain from publicizing untrue statements from whatever source you find. We, as USN SEALS, don't disclose our missions, nor do we condone the false statements aired by the uneducated. Vlado Marynovich, Master Chief, Seal Team Two, USN, (retired).

Geo.OR
04-19-2009, 01:18 AM
correct me if I'm wrong, were't there navy personnel aboard the Liberty Ships during WWII? They manned the 50cals, what few they had on board. Why can't our Merchant Marine personnel handle a couple 50's, they'd take out any of those little dinghys. Thanks, Douglas

Has to do with the rules/laws in foreign ports for arms on commercial vessels. I think maybe those rules are going to change.