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Pete Wass
04-07-2009, 01:21 PM
I noticed this past Sunday a couple or three VFS rifles that had what appeared to be lighter weight tuners. Led me to wondering if, for the sake of saving weight, tuners could be lighter than most of the current crop. These tuners were positioned behind the muzzle a bit yet they only needed to be moved a small amount to change tune. Just wonderin.

Al Nyhus
04-07-2009, 01:50 PM
You mean like this, Pete?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/tenxal/tunerbw.jpg

Pete Wass
04-07-2009, 02:06 PM
I don't have a picture but they are made of brass or bronze and I don't recall the weight the owner told me but I think it is 6 oz. Got me to wondering if two or three oz with a bit more movement would do the job. I did see one like yours as well. I got to thinking how small the BOSS system is and what they do and - - - --

JerrySharrett
04-07-2009, 02:09 PM
I noticed this past Sunday a couple or three VFS rifles that had what appeared to be lighter weight tuners. Led me to wondering if, for the sake of saving weight, tuners could be lighter than most of the current crop. These tuners were positioned behind the muzzle a bit yet they only needed to be moved a small amount to change tune. Just wonderin.
Pete, generally, if you want to tune the barrel, depending on barrel profile, you need about 10-12 ounces. If you want to assist in tuning the load a 3-5 ounce tuner will work.

Now, if a barrel is near its natural tune, a ight one will work but if it is out of natural tune it needs to be heavier.

They will all change the performance of the barrel.

George Kelbly and Paul Gotshall, years ago, put a 5# weight on a barrel. It mostly just lowered the POI.

AVanGorder
04-07-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't have a picture but they are made of brass or bronze and I don't recall the weight the owner told me but I think it is 6 oz. Got me to wondering if two or three oz with a bit more movement would do the job. I did see one like yours as well. I got to thinking how small the BOSS system is and what they do and - - - --

Is this the one you're thinking about, Pete? On Saturday, at the match in Richmond, we talked about it a little.

http://photos.imageevent.com/avangorder/guns/variouspics/websize/Borden_Tuner.jpg

Lynn
04-07-2009, 02:24 PM
Adrian
Your tuner looks exactly like Jim Bordens tuner.
Lynn

AVanGorder
04-07-2009, 02:30 PM
Adrian
Your tuner looks exactly like Jim Bordens tuner.
Lynn

Lynn,

You are exactly right - This is a Borden Tuner. Jim did some R&D on them and I think this is the type he has released.

Adrian

AVanGorder
04-07-2009, 03:28 PM
Here is a picture of the muzzles of our new Borden Rifles. I'm not sure if you can count the difference in grooves but the barrel on the left is a Brux and the other is a Rock Creek. We spent the weekend before last with Jim and he got both rifles shooting the exact same load. It's nice to have just one powder setting, one seating die...

Adrian

ps the barrels aren't dirty, the picture is just out of focus

http://photos.imageevent.com/avangorder/guns/variouspics/websize/Borden_Tuner02.jpg

Pete Wass
04-07-2009, 04:19 PM
I didn't want to name the owners but wanted to begin a discussion about weight. Thanks for stepping forward with the pictures and info. Pete

Jim Borden
04-07-2009, 04:29 PM
Pete

These 4 ounce +/- tuners have been working fine for me. It takes more movement to make drastic shift in tune--but that is what I wanted as it gives a wider "window" of tune so that small changes in tuner position does not make large impact on POI or tune.

Jim

jackie schmidt
04-07-2009, 05:12 PM
my tuners weigh an average 5 ounces, they also incorporate a "snubber".

What I do with my tuners is sort of what Jerry alludes to. I find the load that the "combination" likes, then I keep it in tune with the tuner..........jackie

Pete Wass
04-07-2009, 05:38 PM
Pete

These 4 ounce +/- tuners have been working fine for me. It takes more movement to make drastic shift in tune--but that is what I wanted as it gives a wider "window" of tune so that small changes in tuner position does not make large impact on POI or tune.

Jim

This seems very logical and the way to go to me. Good on you for doing this. Pete

Pete Wass
04-07-2009, 05:40 PM
my tuners weigh an average 5 ounces, they also incorporate a "snubber".

What I do with my tuners is sort of what Jerry alludes to. I find the load that the "combination" likes, then I keep it in tune with the tuner..........jackie

why you incorporated the snubber Jackie? Thanks, Pete

abintx
04-07-2009, 06:31 PM
You mean like this, Pete?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/tenxal/tunerbw.jpg

That looks like a Gene Beggs 4 ounce tuner! Just like the one I have. :D

jackie schmidt
04-07-2009, 08:12 PM
I can't give you any hard data as to why I came up with the 'snubber" concept.

But here is what I did. I first built the tuner without the rubber. I then figured out the untilization of that rubber marine bearing that I use.

When you tap the barrel with just the aluminum tuner, it sounds entirely different than if you tap it with the tuner that incorporates the snubber.

I think the Rifles have a wider tune window with the snubber. I don't get into arguments with other shooters about it, because I can't prove it.

But, I am sure not going to take them off.........jackie

Boyd Allen
04-07-2009, 08:57 PM
A little more anecdotal tuner info:

Some time ago, Jackie gave me a pre snubber tuner. About that time Sims Vibration Lab. gave me a couple of prototype Deresonators that had larger IDs, that were designed to be used on larger diameter barrels. A friend and I fitted the tuner to a well worn barrel that I had had on my rifle since it (the barrel) was new. We turned steps on the barrel to remove the same amount of weight as the tuner plus the rubber piece weighed, approximately 5.25 oz. I did some testing which led me to believe that the barrel shot best with the rubber thing just behind the tuner threads, which are 2" long. I then shot a weekend long match, with the weirdest looking barrel, steps, deresonator and tuner. It seemed to me that the tune was broader, and that the barrel shot more true to the flags. The throat was so rough that a very small piece of steel came out on a patch after brushing. It shot better than it had before. It won its last match at 200 with a .291 at Visalia, against the usual field. This was not my usual performance.

Some time back, I persuaded Don Jackson to share his tuner experience on this board. Very briefly, he fitted simple tuners to a half dozen barrels that had been put aside after initial testing due to their not being competitively accurate. by fitting tuners, he improved the performance of 5 of the 6 by an average of .050, I believe.

Obviously no tuner can read a wind flag, but I believe that as part of a well (or accidentially well) executed system, they can improve raw accuracy.

333smitty
04-08-2009, 07:31 AM
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq262/333smitty/BENCHREST/JackiesTuner.jpg

333smitty
04-08-2009, 07:36 AM
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq262/333smitty/BENCHREST/Orangerobertsonpanda.jpg

steve stanley
04-08-2009, 08:19 AM
Pete, the one I have on my gun weighs a tad less than 4 oz. and appears to work well. Steve

Al Nyhus
04-08-2009, 02:27 PM
.....the one I have on my gun weighs a tad less than 4 oz. and appears to work well. Steve

Steve, before I committed to fitting the Beggs unit to the barrel I posted a pic of, I experimented with adding small amounts of weight (1 oz. increments) to the barrel. The way I did it was pure Dakota dirt clod...but it showed me enough that it seemed reasonable to pursue it further.

Good shootin'. :) -Al

longrange223
04-08-2009, 02:45 PM
al,is that a hunter taper barrel with gene's tuner on it?thinking of doing a hunter taper on my lv so it will make weight with a tuner

AVanGorder
04-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Randy,

I have a light gun, with a tuner, in the works. I use Weaver scopes so that saves me the weight for the four ounce tuner.

Adrian

longrange223
04-08-2009, 03:22 PM
using my march scope & need the smaller taper to save weight,just wonder if al's was a hunter taper so i could use the beggs tuner i already have

savet06
04-08-2009, 05:18 PM
thought I'd throw in another tuner that I am just beginning to tweek. It is made by Time Precision, and can't weigh more than 4-6oz. Had a little difficulty early on with it coming off during a session, but a little loc-tite and some tightening of the screws will hopefully take care of that problem. Time will tell (no punn intended...sort of)
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/mikesuhie/DSCN1848-1.jpg

Al Nyhus
04-08-2009, 05:23 PM
al,is that a hunter taper barrel with gene's tuner on it?thinking of doing a hunter taper on my lv so it will make weight with a tuner

Yes, it is. The thread on Gene's 'standard' tuner like I used is .900X28. I heard that Gene was making them with a smaller diameter for those using Hunter tapers that wanted to tuner a bit more 'up front' than where mine is...not sure if that's true or not. maybe Gene will see this and chime in. I wanted mine back a 'ways from the muzzle, so the .900X28 worked out well.

Hope this helps. :) -Al

Al Nyhus
04-08-2009, 05:30 PM
Here's another view of it. Sorry for the uncrisp photos. I hadn't had my second cup of Silhouwesi yet that morning. :) Jeez...that hole is big, isn't it?

"That'll never work." :eek:-Al

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/tenxal/t2.jpg

Jim Borden
04-09-2009, 05:51 AM
I am using a Bartlein barrel that weighs 5# complete with 4 ounce tuner installed on LV with March scope--works well.

As Jackie pointed out--heavy tuner not needed if you have a barrel taper that works for you and you get a load that works the tuner keeps it in tune (if adjusted properly).

Jim

Lynn
04-09-2009, 11:05 AM
Pete
Nice to see everybody here is using tuners and having a decent number of views without alot of controversy as well.
How many of the behind the muzzle tuner users have actually tried there tuner out in front?
Lynn

Pete Wass
04-09-2009, 11:15 AM
is the civil discussion and the numbers of people participating. A year ago it was a different story. I know there are a few over the muzzle tuners being used with success. As I recall from my RF days, all of the tuners wroked rather they were in front or behind the muzzle. I suspect CF rifles are not much different. Back then my favorite was a Fudd that was behind the muzzle but the Turbo I had as well as the bulbous Black one with the nice vernier marks on it worked as well. ( Note, I haven't once uttered the "I told ya so" words -:) )

Jim Borden
04-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Lynn

I have tried ahead of and behind muzzle and found that both work--however, behind the muzzle worked better for me (less shift in POI for adjustments to the tuner)

Jim

shevelin
04-11-2009, 04:12 PM
From a mechanical/vibational point of view, weights either behind or in front of the muzzle work exactly the same to tune the "node" to a quieter spot. The rear position gets away from the muzzle blast effects/problems of the front mounted tuners.

Scott

Butch Lambert
04-11-2009, 05:53 PM
I believe it works better with the weight beyond the muzzle. It is easier to move the dead spot to the crown that way. Ring the barrel with an electronic stethoscope and see for your self.
Butch

Lynn
04-11-2009, 07:38 PM
On a max heavy varmint barrel I find 5-6 ounces 11-13 ounces and 22 ounces works real well.On the big 1.450 barrels a bit over 3 pounds is working real well.

I also have my weight out in front as per Bill Calfee's instructions and the only downside is when cleaning.My heavygun tuner is made out of brass or bronze and the cleaning fluid tends to turn it green.

The NBRSA 600 Yd Nationals is 2 only weeks away and I will be able to see how my heavygun does in a big match against some well tuned rifles.
Lynn

tim in tx
04-11-2009, 08:32 PM
i have to agree with butch.but it depends on what you you want to do with a tuner.fine tune only or correct velocity variance with fine tuning ,by weighting in front of the muzzle it seems to leverage the muzzle or modify the wave hence major poi shift but at the muzzle or behind is just slowing the present wave down or speeding it up so there is very little poi shift. as far a recessing the crown i have seen certain effects with the larger cals by restricting the muzzle but the smaller [ppc,br ,dasher] dont seem to be hurt at all ,my dasher crown is recessed aprox 4 inches so i waundered as well, upon testing for load work up it shot well at 100, and the first 1000yd group was 3.9 inches right out of the gate,and that is my personal best group as well.needless to say my nerves were calmed about the recess issue. tim in tx

Lynn
04-11-2009, 11:25 PM
Tim
If you remember what Bill Calfee said about you can never set-up the correct wave shape with the tuners weight source on the barrel itself here is a quick test.

Take a very long fishing pole and get it whipping up and down so you can see the wave clearly.Now add weight to the pole just back from the tip and see what happens clothes pins work real good.

Now tape a number 2 pencil to the poles tip and repeat the test using paper clips/clothes pins as weights but this time tape them out onto the pencils tip.

It will look like the wave has shifted and the node is now at the tip of the pole not the tip of the pencil.
Lynn aka Waterboy

JerrySharrett
04-12-2009, 04:22 AM
only downside is when cleaning.My heavygun tuner is made out of brass or bronze and the cleaning fluid tends to turn it green.

Lynn
Lynn, just don't eat the green stuff. I don't know if you know anything about growing vegetables or not, but the green stuff is copper nitrate. It was known as Copper Dragon or Blue Dragon and is an insecticide. It was used to kill insects on bean and potato vines.

The copper nitrate is the reaction of the copper in your brass tuner and the ammonia in the cleaning fluid.

That was before the guvmint told us it killed us. Stuff like that, DDT, buttered popcorn and such. We didn't know that for centuries. We just lived till we died. Now we know better. No butter on popcorn???

tim in tx
04-12-2009, 09:43 AM
that is what i am seeing as well,but wouldnt you think that when you move the wave it is making the wave longer?i have done the fishing pole thing and understand what you are saying but ,at present i am experimenting with a one peice barrel,[weak middle]with a recessed crown so i can cut it without recrowning. after trimming and ringing the node is right at the crown,the main problem is that is still goes out of tune in a very small temp change,i have had some excellent testing weather sometimes even for a whole hour.when the node was in front of the crown or when the node is at the crown it still went out of tune the same amount,2 loads shoot their own individual groups,while they are decent[no verticle] 100 yd groups they are still different in size and more so at 1000. i am afraid to cut more off and move the dead spot behind the crown but will if need be.so when you have the correct weight does your rifle stay in tune throughout the whole days temp swing?i am just trying to meet all of bills criteria,i can match some but not all. tim in tx

Pete Wass
04-12-2009, 11:10 AM
several people who use tuners and all of them have said the tuners don't need to be turned very far to change things. Inherent in my origional question was " would a 2oz tuner work as well as a 4oz if it can be moved more to achieve tune?" It is relatively easy to shed 2oz but beyond that requires bigger changes. It would be a lot easier to use tuners on existing rifles if lighter weight tuners could achieve the same result.

Lynn
04-12-2009, 11:46 AM
Tim
Glad to see you still working on the tuners.

There are several ways you can move the dead spot to the crown.

The first way is to change the frequency of the wave.Higher frequency=shorter wavelength or more waves on your barrel.Lower frequency=longer wavelength and fewer waves on your barrel.

The second way is to change the starting angle of the wave.You are shifting the starting point so naturally you are shifting the ending point if the wave stays the same length.Phase shift if you will.

What Varmint Al said was that all we are doing is to dampen the amplitude of our wave giving us a larger window of opportunity to stay in tune.Picture a wave with 1 foot of rise and 1 foot of drop or 2 feet peak to peak.When we add weight to our muzzle we are affectively only changing our peak to peak value or flattening the waves height and trough.This flattening of the wave only broadens our tune window.We still need to load to a certain point but a small change doesn't wreck our groups as much as it normally would.

Bill's idea in Precision Shooting Magazine was to change the length of our barrel to get closer to the peak then to add the necessary weight to further dampening it.Picture a wave were the peaks are flat looking or resemble a square wave.
In this case any consistant load would shoot good.
We could have multiple good loads for the same barrel.Not a true stopped muzzle but one with a very wide flat peak rather than a short spikey peak.Bill always said to call it what you will but the terminology dogs bit him so often he left.

I am not Bill so my tuners still need a tweak here and there to stay in tune.The good news is any weight added to the muzzle will dampen it.
I suspect Bill who has worked on the tuners for 30 years has kept good notes.He has the ideal length and weight required to achieve his goal written in stone.
Lynn aka Waterboy

Jim Borden
04-12-2009, 06:15 PM
I agree that ahead of the muzzle does more for changing shape and moving node--however, for the way I am using them, the behind muzzle position works best for me. More or less of a fine tune. I prefer to keep the POI shifts small.

Jim

tim in tx
04-12-2009, 09:33 PM
and lynn good points,i fear the weak middle barrel could be an issue, i had figured i might have a narrow tune just because of barrel contour ,other than being 2 peices screwed together henrys barrel is very similar to mine but he claims a wide tune window on his so i just have to waunder,i think the dampening effects by a threaded joint alone could flatten the frequency hence widening the tune but not sure as well as a rubber snuber.i think jackie has the right idea to widen the tune by dampening with his tuner,the way i see it it not only could flatten the frequency but smooth out the wave as well making it a bit more predictable.soon hope to find out.and mr borden sir ,i can see your point as well,just being able to fine tune at the bench has showed me just how out of tune my gun really was and that was an eye opener for me.but just for the sake of putting some arguments to rest what i am looking for is a no tune no adjustment needed or a tune at least equvelent to 60 degrees wide or 180 fps wide and the only way i can see it happening is by correcting a wide range of velocities to go in one hole which has been done to a point or stopping the muzzle which has not been done at least by me.this could benifit short range as well as long range shooters so this is my quest.funny thing is i have a barrel that can correct the normally seen variance but has no tuner on it at all, but to have a true no tune in normally shot temps sounds crazy i know but i believe it can be done eventually. tim in tx

Lynn
04-12-2009, 11:17 PM
Tim
In talking with Henry he has tested the weight required on his muzzle with several different barrels.I know he has them all numbered because in his e-mails he often refers to a particular numbered barrel for his thoughts.From memory he started out with a very small amount over the bore size and opened it up as he thought necessary to complete his testing.From memory again he shortened the length until he reached a certain point all the while keeping quality notes.
I certainly don't want to guess or put words into Henry's mouth but I suspect the groups shrank at a rate proportional to the amount of weight removed and Henry being Henry figured this out down to the brass tack.This wasn't a one barrel test is what I am gettin at.
I know he doesn't like traditional tuners at all but has what he calls muzzle weights on several of his guns including his personal hunting rifle.Interestingly he gave me a weight range to use on my heavygun tuner and my final weight and his were only off by 2.4 ounces.On a tuner weighing more than 3 pounds thats a pretty good estimation.
I had Jay,Idaho make me 3 tuner bodies at various lengths that hold the Roger Von Aherns tuner weights.I have used two sets of his weights to get an idea of what my barrel wants then have the tuner made.Scott "Fudd" Hamilton makes a very nice tuner.
I had Jim Borden set-up two test barrels for my fathers Predator that uses the Stiller 6 ounce tuner as a baseline.The Jay,Idaho threads are the same so everything interchanges.If you want to try this set-up out give me an address and I'll mail you the tuner bodies and two complete Von Aherns weight sets for testing in 0.5 ounce increments to 24 ounces.
Lynn aka Waterboy

Pete Wass
04-13-2009, 11:52 AM
threading 4" would seem worth the effort to me to be able to install a tuner on an existing barrel without a drastic lightening process.

AVanGorder
04-13-2009, 04:39 PM
Something to ponder

What is the possible effect of a great length of straight centerfire barrel.

JerrySharrett
04-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Something to ponder

What is the possible effect of a great length of straight centerfire barrel.
Are you talking about a great length of threaded barrel or just straight turned barrel?

The rimfire folks have used a straight diameter barrel for some time, even reverse tapered barrels. The straight diameter barrels make the barrel more responsive to tuning.

In 2005 I used several straight turned barrels for two reasons; one that I mentioned above and two to remove weight to keep in the 10.5 pound LV/Sporter limit.
http://i39.tinypic.com/116o0ll.jpg

Butch Lambert
04-13-2009, 05:53 PM
Just remember it has to be within the rules on the taper.
Butch

Pete Wass
04-13-2009, 06:13 PM
straight barrels tuned easier than tapered but were harder to keep in tune. Did I hear that wrong? As long as the max taper isn't exceeded every thing is Jo To, isn't it?

tim in tx
04-26-2009, 11:39 AM
after getting some confirmation info from varmit al about my thoughts ,al says it is prabably some high frequency ripples ,i have the weight i need with jackies tuner and mine but i am going to integrate a rubber dampener and see what happens if i can in fact get rid of these high frequency ripples .i will let everybody know how it works out. tim in tx

Donald
04-27-2009, 10:12 AM
What I do with my tuners is sort of what Jerry alludes to. I find the load that the "combination" likes, then I keep it in tune with the tuner..........jackie[/QUOTE]

Do you work up the load first and then install the tuner or work up load with tuner on the barrel? Or maybe on second thought the bold print above answers my question.

Donald

AVanGorder
04-30-2009, 04:43 AM
On one of the barrels I have with a tuner, I first developed a load without the tuner on the barrel. I got it shooting about the best it would then put the tuner on and fine tuned it from there. It was a rather quick process.

Adrian

Donald
04-30-2009, 08:05 AM
Thanks Adrian. Just needed a nudge in the right direction......Donald

Pete Wass
04-30-2009, 05:34 PM
On one of the barrels I have with a tuner, I first developed a load without the tuner on the barrel. I got it shooting about the best it would then put the tuner on and fine tuned it from there. It was a rather quick process.

Adrian



Are we talking Mickey Mouse ears, a big round hole - - - -

tim in tx
06-01-2009, 07:48 PM
well guys ,i thought you might like to hear the latest testing on the weak middle or intigrated tuner barrel,this is a 6 dasher with 105 berger thicks,in the beginning the crown was cut to when the dead spot was at the crown it was 4.25" from the end of the barrel,the gun shot reasonably well with 2 loads at 1 grain difference and at 100yds, but went out of tune very fast with a single load , when shot at 1000yds i lost 1 inch of group for every 2 degrees.at this point there was aprox 10-11 onces in front of the muzzle ,then i went back to 100 yds to shoot duel loads again and the fast loads hit high on target and slow loads hit lower by about .075,as the end of the barrel was trimmed back about an ounce at a time the dead spot was moving rearward of the crown by the same , the differing load groups were still unchanged in size and poi difference which seemed odd, but as i aproached the point i am at now with the dead spot which is right at 2.25 behind the crown,the at 100yds the slow loads shoot same poi as the fast loads and as a single load groups they are very tight and seem to have a wide tune as well,i am not sure of the ultimate extemes of temp but so far it has worked out to 72 degrees to 93 degrees.the tune was centered orginally at 72 degrees now it is centered at 82 degrees as well with minimal dispersion of grouping to the end of the temp extremes[1 bullet hole].if it is trimmed further it will starting flipping the bullets at 100yds but will be correcting velocity variance for longer ranges,i know this because while fireforming with very slow loads the slower velocites within a normally seen variance were hitting flipped[slow bullets hitting higher then the fast bullets]but i will leave the barrel length here for now and do some more testing at short and long range. i let you guys know what happens in future testing. tim in tx

Pete Wass
06-01-2009, 08:00 PM
When you say Dead Spot, how did you establish that? by ringing the barrel or some other method? I was wondering the same sort of thing the other day. When one sees being able to turn an ugly cloverleaf into a hole that will measure in the high zeros shot at 100 yds, one has to believe. I wondered if there may be a way to tune the barrel by cutting it back but there has to be a method to be able to determind where to cut it, eh?

From my experience with the aforementioned tuner, a 1/4 turn seemed to be the RIGHT amount . We tried fine tuning from there with no good results. It seems that there is some sort of magic in a quarter turn; with those two rifles anyway.

tim in tx
06-01-2009, 09:23 PM
i believe the the reason tuner adjustments are differing is because the quarter of a turn deal is probably behind the muzzle,when in front the adjustments are much more sensitive and change poi more as well.with this particular weak middle barrel there is no tuner but the shape is there and it is all one peice,the muzzle is counterbored and then is trimmed back,weights are added at times to determine if i am going the right direction by cutting back .the reason being 1 no distortion of the bore and 2 no threaded joint to drownd out were the dead spot is.it is practicly impossible to ring a barrel with a threaded joint which will deaden the whole barrel.with a one peice barrel it is easy to ring and find the dead spot .as far as trimmming to a certain length in this case with weight in front of the muzzle works and will change many things such a tune width and in tune temps. tim in tx

Lynn
06-01-2009, 09:45 PM
Tim
On the 30 inch 1.450 straight heavygun barrels in a barrel block of 8-9 inches you get the same quarter turn affect at a touch over 3 pounds out in front 2.25 inches.That set-up essentially makes the barrel 20 inches long at 1.450 inches straight.
Your barrel is probaly longer than those used by the short range benchrest guys so it requires a different amount of weight.
I think Henry Childs backbored his muzzle then he opened up the inside diameter until he achieved what he was after.He is using Krieger blanks if my memory is any good and a PM may get you his thoughts on what you need.
Lynn

tim in tx
06-02-2009, 12:48 AM
well could be due to the certain weight in which my bullets are flipping and by correcting velocity variance the adjustments are much less?after pete brought this issue with adjustable weight up i made a 5 ounce tuner brake/velocity correcting with a .50 ounce adjustable weight for a buddie of mine on a savage 22-250. his adjustments were zero through a whole day of shooting,and poi between 3 different factory loads and 2 bullet weights was the same[or minute of prairie dog] he was shooting at around 600yds and in .he nor i have a clue on his tuner adjustment yet but will soon i am sure. we didnt have much time to tinker with it so he said he just adjusted it in at 100yds and locked it in , my tuner setting was adjusted once a little over the width of one indexing groove but that was after a 58 degree high humidity morning to a 82 degree low humidity afternoon i had about 4 -6 inches of verticle at 800 yds at 82 degrees the adjustment while very small put it back in dead on level every shot.as gene suggested the formula is the way to go for consistancy and i guess my adjustments are smaller than most but for the first time i feel confedent all i have to do now is shoot the wind without fear of dropping one out due to a velocity variance. tim in tx

JerrySharrett
06-02-2009, 05:47 AM
You guys are starting to find out that the 3-5 ounce tuner does not tune the barrel. It just tunes for the moment, at that condition.

Pete Wass
06-02-2009, 06:24 AM
You guys are starting to find out that the 3-5 ounce tuner does not tune the barrel. It just tunes for the moment, at that condition.


these forums over the past couple of years and has been paying attention to what others have experienced realize what you said is true. It appears to me that the 30 BR may be somewhat of an exception. I have heard a couple of people say that they never move their tuner once they tune the load they are using in. As I recall from the past when I shot RF and had tuners, once I found the tune for a certain lot of ammo the rifle pretty much stayed in tune with only having to move the tuner a very little bit for what I think we now know is temperature/ humidity changes. I guess it depends on how long a moment is, eh?

JerrySharrett
06-02-2009, 08:58 AM
these forums over the past couple of years and has been paying attention to what others have experienced realize what you said is true. It appears to me that the 30 BR may be somewhat of an exception. I have heard a couple of people say that they never move their tuner once they tune the load they are using in. As I recall from the past when I shot RF and had tuners, once I found the tune for a certain lot of ammo the rifle pretty much stayed in tune with only having to move the tuner a very little bit for what I think we now know is temperature/ humidity changes. I guess it depends on how long a moment is, eh?
One thing to consider Pete, is that a 30 cal of the same profile does not have as much mass and therefore does not have as much momentum to arrest.

Pete Wass
06-02-2009, 01:57 PM
One thing to consider Pete, is that a 30 cal of the same profile does not have as much mass and therefore does not have as much momentum to arrest.


that to be a beneficial thing, no?

tim in tx
06-02-2009, 11:05 PM
you could be right as it looks that way lately. but i think by correcting differing velocites to go into same hole i might have a chance for a no adjustment needed,i just need to get it centered to the temp swing of the day and i am set, the problem is the width of the tune ,i just cannot seem to get more than a 20 degree wide of a tune out of the adjustable tuner,and i will see those extremes on an average day so minor adjustments have been made when i go out of my temp limit hence the formula of adjustment but if it is inside that then at least i am correcting for any velocity variance and i am sure you know there will always be variance. tim in tx