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View Full Version : "never shoot a dry bore"



huntinfool
04-04-2009, 06:21 PM
What should I put through the bore after cleaning if I'm going right back to shooting?

John S
04-04-2009, 07:37 PM
Better know as LocK-Ease

tim
04-04-2009, 07:47 PM
Better know as LocK-Ease

Get a bottle of Montana Extreme Bore Conditioner

Nader
04-04-2009, 07:57 PM
If you're cleaning with Shooters choice/Kroil combo or Butch's or Hoppe's just patch out your wet bore with one big 1-3/4 square patch on a .22 jag then go to the line damp. No sense introducing another product (lock-ease) into the bore unless you want your gun to go stupid for a couple of shots.
Joel

alinwa
04-04-2009, 10:53 PM
I think that shooting a wet bore can damage it. Skip Otto used to lap his barrels using a light coating of tranny fluid.

I've shot bone dry, patched out and untreated bores for 15yrs and mine seem to last as long as others, and shoot as well.

And no "settling in."

al

Jhart
04-05-2009, 12:07 AM
Walt Berger once told me i was CRAZY for shooting a dry bore but never explained why.

So I tried coating the barrel with kroil for awhile and didn't see any real differences so i stopped using it.

Whats the biggest gain from coating before that first shot ?

Wayne Shaw
04-05-2009, 05:06 AM
I use Lock-Eze. Once I clean the barrel, I use a loose patch, put a few drops of lock-eze on it and push it through the barrel. I use the same patch all day.

My theory is, once clean, the first bullet will travel down the barrel with a metal to metal fit dry fit, which will cause fouling. Once the first shot goes down, powder residue leaves a coating in the barrel, which has graphite in it.

So using lock-eze gives a graphite coating for that first shot. Some use a light oil which serves the same purpose.

abintx
04-05-2009, 09:07 AM
I used to use LOCK EASE after I cleaned my barrel and as Joel said above it went Stupid for a couple shots as I shot a few foulers. One Saturday evening as I was helping Jackie Schmidt put up backers for the following day's match, I asked him what he ran down his barrels after cleaning and he told me that he just patched them out and left them dry. Ever since then, I've left mine dry and the first shot out of the barrel is dead on. No more Stupid shots! ;)

slugger
04-05-2009, 09:12 AM
I know there are several of the "accuracy gunsmiths" who firmly believe that running dry will ruin your barrel faster than if you use the graphite solution.

One gunsmith I know uses Kroil as his last cleaning fluid and just light patches it out. He said that using Kroil, his first shot is in the group.

I guess there are a lot of theories on this one.

Big Al
04-05-2009, 10:28 AM
The flavor of the day? It used to be the magic was Rem Oil then Kroil. I have yet to hear one of these words of wisdom offered with a good reason?

For my part, I just keep wondering why you want to iron on more fouling with the first shot?

Condition the bore? Isn't that the reason you take fouling shots and sighters?

Now a days with the large proliferation of bore scopes, it would seem we should have some better proof than what is out there now.

What is odd about this subject, is how it lays dormint for so long and then becomes the topic of the day all over again.

Montana Pete
04-05-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't think it matters a straw.

Rifle steel is so much harder and tougher than gilding metal on the bullets.

I don't mean to disrespect other opinions . . . . But in this case, I don't agree with them.

Nader
04-05-2009, 05:49 PM
If you shoot "bone dry", you will pick up more fouling(especially copper) than if you shoot damp.Try it, you'll see.
Joel

MDOlson
04-05-2009, 06:46 PM
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For the past 10 years I've been using a synthetic lubricant named Klotz. I remember using it in my 500cc Suzuki Two Stoke when it first came out in the early 70's. Bought the bottle I'm using at a model airplane store in Spokane in 1999. Bruce Thom and Tom Dickson of BAT machine recommended it to me. My first shots after application are always in the group, though when I strive for a tiny, tiny group I always shoot a fouler. I certianly can't prove that it extends barrel life, but I figure it can't hurt and its only one more pass with the rod.

abintx
04-05-2009, 07:07 PM
If you shoot "bone dry", you will pick up more fouling(especially copper) than if you shoot damp.Try it, you'll see. Joel

I've been shooting my Krieger dry for sometime now and have never found that to be the case. Maybe in a factory you'll see that.

Tony Shankle
04-05-2009, 08:45 PM
Is there really any such thing as a "dry" bore???? Think about it on a level smaller than we can see or feel. Do you think when you run 6, 8 or 10 dry patches through the bore that it TOTALLY removes all traces of the Kroil (or whatever you use)?

jackie schmidt
04-05-2009, 08:47 PM
I shoot thousands of rounds a years, using exactly the same regiment every time after every group.

Nothing but Butches ever goes into one of my Kriegers. After my usual cleaning regiment, I run enough dry patches before the next group untill the patches look clean.

But I doubt I am getting every last bit of Butches out. Besides, the clearing round takes care of what's left.........jackie

Big Al
04-05-2009, 09:07 PM
I use a 97 or 98% Isopropyl alcohol I want nothing in the bore until all trace are out and last patch with clean dry patch. Nothing on the patch, I feel good to go.

Copper is one thing, carbon is another, I don't want to add to the carbon, I work hard to remove. Darn bore scopes anyway, it has caused me to totally change cleaning methods and solvents. For instance, I no longer use a brush to clean any of my barrels. Why add more of what I was trying to remove?

Well, anyway that just my two cents. I suppose a guys got to do what he feels comfortable with.

jackie schmidt
04-06-2009, 06:57 AM
Not Exactly. We do what produces the best aggregates. Most competitive shooters are not in to waht makes them feel good, The are in to what the groups measure, usually over an entire Two Gun Event.

I have always had a pet theory about cut Rifled Barrels, such as Kriegers. It is not a good thing to get every last bit of "stuff" out of them, Much of it is embedded in those tiny tool marks. It acts sort of like a "glazing".

Don't put a borescope in oneof my barrels. You will consider it "dead on arrival"

Years ago, I used to scrub these barrels untill there was nothing but Steel left. But, about 7-8 years ago, I changed to what I do now, and the barrels shoot better.

Of course, these are very high quality cut Rifled Barrels. Factory barrels, or even barrels made by the button rifled proccess, probably act different. But I have not shot anything but a cut rifled Krieger since 1998.........jackie

Big Al
04-06-2009, 02:39 PM
The vast majority of barrels I buy and use are button form a few of the top makers, I only own and use three Krieger barrels, cause nobody offered the twist I needed in button, great barrels. I just can't see any difference in the lapped finish between a cut or button barrel. I don't see tool marks in any of these bores, at 10X?

I just think there is a lot more to this issue of conditioning the bore before you run a group. I do not believe that anything that is foreign to the bore chemical wise offers any benefit to a group shooter.

Let's ask ourselfes some questions here. What is left in the bore after the first shot? Easy answer is, the products of combustion. Plus whatever we put in the bore before it was burnt. I just have not seen any benefit from the first shot on, with or without.

It really does seem that this subject is treated by more myth than it deserves.

Just like using a brass bristle brush to scrub the bore. If your favorite bore cleaner(s) haven't got the carbon and the copper out with out the introduction of more copper to the bore, it is time to re-evaluate the chemicals.

I will admit that I did not start down this self evaluation until the hue and cry stared with moly coated bullets. Every darn new miracle in a bottle that came along has not shown me a benefit to accuracy, over the normal product of combustion from the ctg itself (that we have to live with).

I just want you to understand that I have kind of got away from following the herd on this subject and have done my own evaluation. Just my two cents.