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Aggie Chris
03-12-2009, 07:13 PM
First off, let me introduce myself. My name is Chris and I'm living in Houston TX. I found your site by querying T322 powder on google and your message board was the first hit. I recently got into reloading due to lack of .223 ammo and stumbling on a great "estate" type deal from a woman who's husband used to benchshoot but couldn't any longer due to health reasons. In this deal, I ended up with a 1 gallon jug of powder listed as T322 that has between 2 and 3 pounds left in it.
Unfortunately, up until now I haven't had a clue what it was or what the load data for it was. Evidently, this is some considered to be a good powder to those who have a use for it. Is there anywhere that I can find more information on this powder before I decide if I want to keep it or trade it for reloading components? Thanks for shedding some light on this "mystery" powder and any help ya'll can provide.

Bill Wynne
03-12-2009, 07:56 PM
Aggie,

You came to the right place. I have not heard of that powder number but someone will comment on your powder in a day or less. You might call the Sierra bullet answer people as they have a good service on an 800 line and they know everything.

I would be very careful using an unknown powder. It might not even be right for what you are loading. Also, you have bought some unusual gunpowder that has been stored in a jar for a long time maybe decades and it might not be what you think it is or it could have been mixed by anyone.

My advice would be to dispose of it and not use it. Mistakes in reloading can happen very fast.

Concho Bill

Larry Elliott
03-12-2009, 08:20 PM
If it is indeed T322 it's powder from "pulled down" (dismantled) military 5.56x45 (.223 Rem) ammunition that was sold by Thunderbird Powder Co. back in the 1990's.

Like Bill says though the best thing to do is dump it. You can use it to fertilize the lawn by broadcasting it since it's a good source of nitrogen. The alternative is to lay a powder train, and light it on fire. Unless you live out in the boondocks someplace this will likely get the neighbors pretty excited.

Unless you buy powder in a sealed container or from someone you know and trust beyond doubt those are the safest things to do. It may seem like a waste and it might be, but how valuable are your eyes or head. I'm as cheap as the next guy, cheaper than most, but I value my eyesight and head.

Aggie Chris
03-12-2009, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the info Bill. The post that led me here is located at http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57465. Its the first bit of information I've been able to find so far and the pictures match the jug which I have.

The guy that previously owned the powder had a Remington 700 BDL in 308 with a bull barrel and a 222 Remington XBR which from what I've read was a decent bench rifle. I'm curious as to which rifle he was using the powder for as I bought the 308.

I'll be looking up the Sierra number in the morning. I have quite a few 308 sierra bullets so hopefully then can give me a little direction. I'm not a bench shooter but I do enjoy the accuracy a good load provides. Unfortunately there aren't any ranges that I know of in the Houston area that are over 300 yards. I'd love to stretch the 308's legs a bit.

Aggie Chris
03-12-2009, 08:35 PM
If it is indeed T322 it's powder from "pulled down" (dismantled) military 5.56x45 (.223 Rem) ammunition that was sold by Thunderbird Powder Co. back in the 1990's.

Like Bill says though the best thing to do is dump it. You can use it to fertilize the lawn by broadcasting it since it's a good source of nitrogen. The alternative is to lay a powder train, and light it on fire. Unless you live out in the boondocks someplace this will likely get the neighbors pretty excited.

Unless you buy powder in a sealed container or from someone you know and trust beyond doubt those are the safest things to do. It may seem like a waste and it might be, but how valuable are your eyes or head. I'm as cheap as the next guy, cheaper than most, but I value my eyesight and head.

Howdy Larry. Thanks for the response. The 1 gallon jug shows TCCI as the manufacturer out of Phoenix AZ. Your mention of the .223 dismantled Military rounds leads me to think that he was loading his .222 rem with this stuff. The time frame makes sense as he has been ill for quite some time and I don't think he was actively shooting for a while. I have a few of both his 308 and 222 rounds and will check the weights after talking with the sierra people in the morning to see what the load information would be.

I wouldn't have the guts to light it on fire around here right now. We've been under a burn ban for most of the state for weeks but getting the neighbors wound up sounds like fun. Luckily it rained most of the day and we're supposed to get some more tomorrow. Never knew of using powder for fertilizer, learn something new every day.

Larry Elliott
03-12-2009, 08:39 PM
If you light 2 or 3 lb of smokeless laid out in a train it'll sho' nuff get the neighbors all wound up. If there's a burn ban in effect it could get the local constabulary wound up too, which might be more exciting than fun....:eek:

Good luck and good shooting.

f d shuster
03-12-2009, 08:40 PM
My personal rule, that has served me well since 1960 is: I will never use powder unless it is in a factory sealed container. I will also never fire reloads made by someone else. Have never had any type of "incident".

HovisKM
03-13-2009, 07:31 AM
Heck,
Why don't you list it for sale here in the classifieds. I've never seen T322 or 8208 that was "sealed". There are a few hundred people that would be interested in what you have maybe. Just check how it smells. If it has a strong chemical smell....dispose of it (just spread it out on the ground), if not...it's almost priceless to those who want it. I'm sure someone would trade you a 8 lb bottle of V133 for it and you'd be way ahead and they would be happy.

No one who has shot T322 or 8208, has shot sealed powder.

Hovis

virg
03-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Shot this powder in the late 80's and early 90's with my .308 in Hunter Benchrest. Used 35gr behind a 150gr Ser Match King. I varied to load from 35-39gr, but 35gr gave me the best groups for this rifle. After I went through two 8lb containers of it, it became very hard to come by since Thunderbird kept saying they were out of stock. I then changed to H322 and the same loads that I used for the T322 gave about the same performance, although 37gr turned out to give the best load with the same 150 SMKs.

I really think you can use this powder using the load tables for H322 with good results. Don't plan on using it very long though, when it's gone...it's gone.;)

Good luck,
virg

jackie schmidt
03-13-2009, 03:30 PM
A shooter who was around back when all of this happenned explained to us this way.

Originolly, there were three "lots" of surplus 8208. Thunderbird gave samples of the three lots to a very famous shooter. He then sent samples out to some equally famous shooters, and the general consensus as to which lot was the "best" was what became T32, after another manufactuer complained about the using of the name with "322" in it.

The other lots, some which seemed to be of a slightly different burn rate, ended up being packaged as what we now call 8208.

Now, there is probably something lost in the translation after all of these years, but suffice to say that what you have just might be the originol T32. If it is, there are shooters who will give you their first born child, and probably throw in the familly dog, for it. That is, if it is still good.

So, DO NOT destroy it, or throw it away. At the very least, run it in the classifieds and see if someone who knows about such things is interested. heck, they would probably spend the price of a plane ticket to come and inspect it

Trust me, if the word got out that some unknowing shooter dumped 3 pounds of honest to goodness "T" on his tomato plants, they would be "lamentations and knashing of teeth" in some parts of the Benchrest Community.........jackie

JD Mock
03-13-2009, 06:34 PM
The 8208 that Thunderbird bought was not pull down. It was surplus, but it had never been loaded. There were three lots. One lot seemed better for BR than the other two and was named T-322. After objections from Hodgdon, this was changed to T-32. Good shooting...James

Aggie Chris
03-13-2009, 06:53 PM
Dang guys, I appreciate all the posts on the powder....definitely interesting stuff. Asked a guy at the local gun/reloading shop and he didn't have a clue. Thought it might have been custom made for someone wanting H322 with less graphite or something to that effect.

Thanks for the load data and advice to treat it like H322...but I'm definitely not experienced or confident enough to give it a whirl. I have been loading my .223 rem with H322 mainly b/c I have a good amount of it and saw the load data in Hodgsons manual. Right now I'm at the point where I'm amazed they all go bang and hit the paper when I pull the trigger.

I opened it up and smelled it and it didn't smell more than any of the other powders I have, so I'm taking that as a good sign. If any of ya'll are from or in the Houston area I'd appreciate a second oppinion. Not sure if any of ya'll looked at the link earlier in the post, but it looks just like that bottle. I'm starting to question my weight guestimate, I'd put it closer to 2 than 3 pounds. From the Mod's post, I'd hate to fertalize my tomato's with something that sounds like a great thing to the right person. I'll keep researching but I'll probably put it up on the classifieds...I just don't like the idea of loading something I don't have a base to start with..plus it would be a waste for the shooting I do.

Anyway, I really appreciate all of your feedback. You have a great message board community on here. I halfway expected to get flamed once ya'll started saying how oddball this stuff was.

jackie schmidt
03-13-2009, 08:30 PM
I live in East Houston, and am also a member of the Tomball Gun Club.

I don't think you are quite getting what we are saying. If what you have is truly "T32", it is worth a lot of money. When I say "worth a lot", I mean you could get 4 times what any other powder sells for a pound, maybe more........jackie

Aggie Chris
03-13-2009, 09:02 PM
Jackie,

I'm pretty sure I get it now. I lucked into some powder that bench shooters seek. I found a few more posts on the stuff and am dumbfounded on how off the market this stuff is. I really don't have a use for it except for making rounds for my .223 go bang. I just don't want to work a deal with someone and this turns out to not be what they were looking for...hence my comment about Houston people only. Plus, while you gave a rough $ value for it I really am not interested in selling for cash. I'd rather trade and make both sides happy, but I also don't want either getting screwed over. I got one hell of a deal on all the reloading gear, bullets, powders and primers and I'm not looking to take advantage of someone just because I lucked out. Excuse my ignorance on the subject of powders, reloading etc..but I'm very new to this stuff.

While trying to research the T322, I found posts talking about H322 1 pound bottles labled "Government Surplus" that made it sound like that was pretty good stuff for what ya'll are into as well. The price on the bottles suggests an MSRP of $7.99 if that helps. Either way, up to this point thats what I've been loading my AR15 rounds with not knowing there was a difference in H322's. I read a few posts about GI322 lot 50 or something like that spontaniously lighting off and I really hope this isn't what I have. If so, its going to the tomatoes. Either way, up to this point thats what I've been loading my AR15 rounds with not knowing there was a difference in H322's.


Anyway, excuse my ignorance in regard to the T322 and thanks for your help....I appreciate the info and the guidance ya'll have provided.

Aggie Chris
03-13-2009, 09:06 PM
I was mistaken about the H322 1 pounders I have. They read "U.S. GOV'T SURPLUS Sug. Retail $7.99" to be precise. Not sure if the language makes a difference, but you never know.

jackie schmidt
03-13-2009, 09:51 PM
I have no use for it, but maybe somebody would.

My other advice would be to call Lester Bruno at Bruno Shooters Supply. He asked me a couple of months ago if I knew of any "T" floating around........jackie

Aggie Chris
03-16-2009, 07:01 PM
I was able to snap a photo of the jug. I weighed it at work this morning and it ended up being 2.65 lbs including the container.

Mike Bryant
03-20-2009, 10:18 PM
The 1 pounders are what benchrest shooters called GI 322. It was sold by Hodgdon back in the late 80's. I had some of it that came in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. If I remember correctly in the box it sold for $32 for 8 pounds. The T322 was being sold at about that same time for about twice that amount. I later bought a 8 pound black plastic jug of the GI322 for $40. Both were marked as U. S. government surplus. I really liked the GI322 and shot a lot of it. But as with most benchrest powders, when it's gone off the primary market, then it becomes harder to find and more expensive when you find it. I've heard of 8 pound jugs of T32 selling for $350. Maybe Hodgdon's new powder will be as good.

Ackman
03-21-2009, 12:10 AM
For a .223 that stuff's all right but not the best. I used to shoot the T-32 labeled version in 3 different varmint .223's. It was accurate enough and gave ok velocity. But for that cartridge, AA2015 is more accurate and much faster in my rifles. The real magic for a .223 is found with VV133 or VV135.