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Joe
02-25-2009, 12:01 PM
Does anyone know if CCI has resumed production on their primers, namely BR-4?
I spoke to Coy Getman last fall and he indicated to me that production on all BR-4's was halted due to engineering changes.
Thanks

abintx
02-25-2009, 01:32 PM
As of a minute ago, CCI Technical told me BR4's been on hold for the last 10 MONTHS for sensitivity, and have no idea when they will resume production. :( Here's the number if you want to follow up: 866-286-7436.

LHSmith
02-25-2009, 08:47 PM
sensitivity ??? .........................training?
I still contend there is something going on here, other than hoarding. There is money to be made in components NOW ( one of the few markets where demand is HIGH).....why don't they capitalize on this fact BEFORE the Big O's ammo excise tax hits us.
Why are all their answers outlandish?

caroby
02-25-2009, 09:56 PM
sensitivity ??? .........................training?
I still contend there is something going on here, other than hoarding. There is money to be made in components NOW ( one of the few markets where demand is HIGH).....why don't they capitalize on this fact BEFORE the Big O's ammo excise tax hits us.
Why are all their answers outlandish?


Couldn't agree more........Sumtin is a bit off here...!!!???????!:cool:

cale

Redrock
02-26-2009, 05:32 AM
sensitivity ??? .........................training?
I still contend there is something going on here, other than hoarding. There is money to be made in components NOW ( one of the few markets where demand is HIGH).....why don't they capitalize on this fact BEFORE the Big O's ammo excise tax hits us.
Why are all their answers outlandish?

what excise tax?

tenring
02-26-2009, 06:02 AM
Our gal, Nancy Pelosi, has proposed putting a 500% Federal excise on sales of all ammo and components.

RStiefel
02-26-2009, 07:54 AM
Our gal, Nancy Pelosi, has proposed putting a 500% Federal excise on sales of all ammo and components.

but this is the very kind of language that is causing the hoarding of components. At a time when we "say" we want more people to join the shooting sports, we go out and buy up everything we can, though we probably won't use half of what we purchase. When a new person comes along to join us, he/she can't find loading components and gives up. I personally know a person (member here) who has recently hoarded enough SR primers and H4831sc to supply 10 people for the remainder of their lives. Why purchase more than needed and deprive others from being able to shoot???

Redrock
02-26-2009, 08:17 AM
Is this a speculation thing or is it actually a bill in progress?

abintx
02-26-2009, 08:22 AM
I don't believe there is a draconian motive involved here. Instead of all the wild Grisham-type thoughts and conjecture, why not just give CCI a call, and then compare notes? I provided the number above. ;)

LHSmith
02-26-2009, 10:26 AM
but this is the very kind of language that is causing the hoarding of components. At a time when we "say" we want more people to join the shooting sports, we go out and buy up everything we can, though we probably won't use half of what we purchase. When a new person comes along to join us, he/she can't find loading components and gives up. I personally know a person (member here) who has recently hoarded enough SR primers and H4831sc to supply 10 people for the remainder of their lives. Why purchase more than needed and deprive others from being able to shoot???



So you contend with us shooting enthusiasts "there's too much consumin' goin' on out there?".......yet, the new guys/gals in charge are the biggest bunch of spenders this planet has ever seen......this at a time when our economy needs people to start "consumin" again.

So the question now becomes.....Why make/ propose stupid laws and taxes that "deprive others from being able to shoot?

Or, maybe you would like to see a limit on the number of components/ rounds that can be purchased at one time to stop this totally unfair hoarding?

I don't invest in gold in these hard times.....I invest in primers, powder,..etc.

RStiefel
02-26-2009, 11:45 AM
As usual, anything to change the meaning of the post eh?
Are you implying the hoarding hasn't gotten excessive to the point that people who actually need components, find themselves sitting at home, while a great number of hoarders don't need the vast amounts being accumulated?

caroby
02-26-2009, 12:02 PM
Mr. Smith and Mr. Stiefel....

I agree with both.....

But..

What the heck...! Can't the makers supply all the primers that can be consumed >>within reason<< (wether it takes someone 1 year to shoot-up or forever..!) .. Knowing the war effort is FIRST AND FORMOST to supply our Fighting Men and Women with these very components, why can't they keep a reasonable supply to the very consumers who will buy all and I mean ALL they can produce...$$$ for these corporations and taxes $$$ for the local and fed govs................. This IS a Democracy.
Makem and we'll buy'em...
I just hope the HIGH demand wont increase in inferior component rates...!

I know I'm not the only one who feels this.....:confused::rolleyes:
cale

abintx
02-26-2009, 12:06 PM
.......yet, the new guys/gals in charge are the biggest bunch of spenders this planet has ever seen......

I'm not a member of the current party in office but let's get the statistics in line with reality. Before Mr. Reagan took office, this country had approximately a 960 Billion dollar debt. That debt had accumulated from the time of this country's inception to his inauguration. When he left office this country had approximately a 3 Trillion dollar debt. When Mr. Bush Jr. took office he started with about a 5 Trillion debt. When he departed he left a 10 to 11 Trillion dollar debt. One man tripled it, the other doubled it. The current folks inherited one heck of a mess and they can no long be called this nation's spenders. Mr. Reagan and Mr. Bush Jr reversed all that.

RStiefel
02-26-2009, 12:10 PM
I'm not a member of the current party in office but let's get the statistics in line with reality. Before Mr. Reagan took office, this country had approximately a 960 Billion dollar debt. That debt had accumulated from the time of this country's inception to his inauguration. When he left office this country had approximately a 3 Trillion dollar debt. When Mr. Bush Jr. took office he started with about a 5 Trillion debt. When he departed he left a 10 to 11 Trillion dollar debt. One man tripled it, the other doubled it. The current folks inherited one heck of a mess and they can no long be called this nation's spenders. Mr. Reagan and Mr. Bush Jr reversed all that.

You know your history!!!

Gerry
02-26-2009, 01:22 PM
Yes they are in short supply. You may find a few in some local out of the way gun shop or at a gun show.
One thing to remember we are supplying quite a few foreign countrys also. 223 ammo is really over priced now , due to the wars in several countys.
Does any one know just how many conflicts we are in right now.
I know it's not just 2. ''''''''

LHSmith
02-26-2009, 03:09 PM
I don't believe there is a draconian motive involved here. Instead of all the wild Grisham-type thoughts and conjecture, why not just give CCI a call, and then compare notes? I provided the number above. ;)



The production line is shut down for 10 months due to "sensitivity."

What company can survive with such inept product engineering.

Al Nyhus
02-26-2009, 03:20 PM
The production line is shut down for 10 months due to "sensitivity."

Sensitivity training, maybe???? :D

Gerry
02-26-2009, 06:04 PM
I don't get the sensitivity' Is it because it was bought out by alarge conglomorate? Insensitivity would be more like it.
Those pros on the board are something else. The same thing happened with the B&L 36 benchrest scope.

John Kielly
02-26-2009, 06:05 PM
Doesn't Blount own Federal & CCI - & they're shipping one line to the government & sensitive about the other?

LHSmith
02-26-2009, 08:13 PM
They may own both facilities, but the processes may be quite different. Of course, we may just be getting PR doublespeak from them.

Buy what you can afford to buy right now. The times they are a changing.



I'd like to buy more, but hesitate to do so for fear of being labeled a "Hoarder" Nevermind the scale of economics when buying by the case (5000) vs. by the pack (100) .....a 50% savings is realized.
It's far more important to me to ensure EVERYONE has the opportunity to purchase primers. It's the fair thing to do.:D

Joe
02-27-2009, 05:07 AM
Guys,
My intention for this post never was to point fingers and accuse of hoarding or other issue from within CCI or their conglomerates.
I know for a fact that the BR4 is out of production for engineering reasons, Coy Getman (CCI) told me so. Coy can be difficult to reach at times.

The fact is that Coy/CCI owe me 3 bricks of BR4 primers and I would like to get them for this season. I am just wondering if I can expect them any time soon. Thats' all.

Chill guys, it's cool.

Joe Cowan

Larry Elliott
02-27-2009, 11:56 AM
CCI, Federal, Speer, RCBS, and some other companies formerly owned by Blount were bought out by ATK a few years ago. It's sort of surprising that there's an engineering problem in a product that's been made for so long.

It may be a case that an "efficiency" expert or consultant was hired, which generally does nothing to promote efficiency or productivity in my experience. :eek:

Bob Kingsbury
02-27-2009, 03:53 PM
That they can project a 10 month shutdown is suspicious

abintx
02-27-2009, 06:00 PM
CCI is not projecting anything. They're just stating what everyone already knows. Production on BR4s has been halted for the last 10 months, because of manufacturing problems.

I'm sure, as a company, that they would have enjoyed participating in this buying/selling frenzy, instead of being sidelined with technical issues. They've lost, I would suspect, hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales. An opportunity like this doesn't come along too often and they've had to pretty much sit it out. What a frustrating position for a company to be in. :(

LHSmith
02-27-2009, 08:06 PM
[QUOTE=abintx;487127]CCI is not projecting anything. They're just stating what everyone already knows. Production on BR4s has been halted for the last 10 months, because of manufacturing problems.





SALMONELLA?

Pete Wass
02-28-2009, 07:58 AM
5 to 7 years ago primers "Dried Up" causing a price increase. Time went by and then everyone had all the primers one could buy; of course at an increased price. I looked at the sites of a couple of distributors this week and the only primers they had listed were some obscure pistol primers and shotgun primers.

Fortunately I have a two years supply but wanted to have a better supply than that. The Availability Bug always seems not to work hand in hand with demand, somehow.

Gerry
02-28-2009, 08:05 AM
Now that they have been scarce {look for some SCALPING ON other brands.
Even the wolf primers are drying up' Interesting isn't it?

longrange223
02-28-2009, 08:13 AM
is there a problem with the br4 primers that anybody knows of? i've got 6000 sitting here & am wondering if they're ok,what do they mean sensitivity problem?

JerrySharrett
02-28-2009, 09:05 AM
is there a problem with the br4 primers that anybody knows of? i've got 6000 sitting here & am wondering if they're ok,what do they mean sensitivity problem?
I have a few thousand of the BR4's but they are 3-4 years old. If I had a concern, I'd darn sure contact CCI.

Pete Wass
02-28-2009, 09:07 AM
is there a problem with the br4 primers that anybody knows of? i've got 6000 sitting here & am wondering if they're ok,what do they mean sensitivity problem?

there being outrageously expensive and not as good as Winchesters, nothing. :D

abintx
02-28-2009, 09:10 AM
Having spent a career in the logistics/supply business let me try to explain in simple terms why there is a disconnect between the shortages you find today and what's on the shelf. Most supply systems, at least the ones I'm familiar with, are based on frequency of demand using double exponential smoothing (meaning that the greater emphasis is placed on the latest orders ... in this case high quantities ... and less and less weight on the older orders). If you have a constant flow of demand for an item you can be sure to find it on the shelf. If you get an influx of orders, high frequency at very high quantities, the warehouse shelves get stripped quickly (common sense). As the system adjusts to the new batch of orders it puts more material on the shelf for future orders (unless the system is adjusted to account for an inordinate influx due to say fearful hoarding). This can take sometime and depends on admin lead time, production lead time, transportation lead time, strikes, what percentage of that business is critical to the manufacturer's bottom line, etc., than you would have if the demands were steady and quantities ordered were in line with previous orders. After a frenzy, like the one taking place today, the frequency and quantities drop off dramatically and the systems adjust which eventually put less material on the shelf for future demands (remember what double exponential smoothing does?). Once normalcy comes around again, which may take many months, the system settles down and you find what you're looking for when you want it. It's a shame, that a few folks phobia's, have instigated a hoarding situation, driven up the prices dramatically, and may even preclude quite a few of their fellow shooters from match participation. :(

JML
02-28-2009, 09:18 AM
Can someone go into more depth as to what the sensitivity problems are? I've been shooting BR4's in my hunter gun for the last two years, and they work very well. But I have been having problems with primers failing to go off. In a block of 25 shells I might have 4 to 5 that fail to ignite. A good strike on the primer but no pop. I have gotten used to it and manage but it can be kind of hair-raising when you have your shot all lined up and you've been waiting 2 or 3 minutes for your condition to appear and...click.

RStiefel
02-28-2009, 09:51 AM
Having spent a career in the logistics/supply business let me try to explain in simple terms why there is a disconnect between the shortages you find today and what's on the shelf. Most supply systems, at least the ones I'm familiar with, are based on frequency of demand using double exponential smoothing (meaning that the greater emphasis is placed on the latest orders ... in this case high quantities ... and less and less weight on the older orders). If you have a constant flow of demand for an item you can be sure to find it on the shelf. If you get an influx of orders, high frequency at very high quantities, the warehouse shelves get stripped quickly (common sense). As the system adjusts to the new batch of orders it puts more material on the shelf for future orders (unless the system is adjusted to account for an inordinate influx due to say fearful hoarding). This can take sometime and depends on admin lead time, production lead time, transportation lead time, strikes, what percentage of that business is critical to the manufacturer's bottom line, etc., than you would have if the demands were steady and quantities ordered were in line with previous orders. After a frenzy, like the one taking place today, the frequency and quantities drop off dramatically and the systems adjust which eventually put less material on the shelf for future demands (remember what double exponential smoothing does?). Once normalcy comes around again, which may take many months, the system settles down and you find what you're looking for when you want it. It's a shame, that a few folks phobia's, have instigated a hoarding situation, driven up the prices dramatically, and may even preclude quite a few of their fellow shooters from match participation. :(
I mentioned this very thing and was flamed for it. Pulled out my longbows a couple of days ago and am starting to get my back muscles in shape for some archery. I need some powder, but refuse to pay $10.00 + over the normal cost to get it. Yea, it fuels price increases.

LHSmith
03-01-2009, 08:54 AM
It's a shame, that a few folks phobia's, have instigated a hoarding situation, driven up the prices dramatically, and may even preclude quite a few of their fellow shooters from match participation. :(




I recently bought 3 cases of primers, that is 15,000.
I was low in stock.
I shoot several thousand rounds a year.
My 2 sons and grandson shoot several hundred rounds per year.
Work will be slow this year, so I'll have more time to shoot.
Buying by the case, I realized a savings of ~50%.
As one who engages in BR competition, when I find a set of components that performs well, I buy as much of that manufacturing "lot" as I can afford.


I did NOT create this problem.
YOU guys that voted this regime in office did.
In your all-important quest to make everything FAIR, ask "your guy" to impose rationing.
Let's see how well that works for you.

Why don't you cry and moan about the "hoarding" of March scopes, I heard there's a backlog on those too.

greg
03-01-2009, 10:07 AM
I recently bought 3 cases of primers, that is 15,000.
I was low in stock.
I shoot several thousand rounds a year.
My 2 sons and grandson shoot several hundred rounds per year.
Work will be slow this year, so I'll have more time to shoot.
Buying by the case, I realized a savings of ~50%.
As one who engages in BR competition, when I find a set of components that performs well, I buy as much of that manufacturing "lot" as I can afford.


I did NOT create this problem.
YOU guys that voted this regime in office did.
In your all-important quest to make everything FAIR, ask "your guy" to impose rationing.
Let's see how well that works for you.

Why don't you cry and moan about the "hoarding" of March scopes, I heard there's a backlog on those too.

something is going on for sure. I was on the CMP website yesterday. Normally they get 3-4 thousand orders a month for everything from parts to rifles to ammo. They are now getting 5-10 thousand a month with 180 day expected shipping time. What we need to do is get the Marines to convince Obama to take up across the course shooting!!