PDA

View Full Version : Sizing (more problems)



Codeman
02-24-2009, 08:39 PM
I recently got my first BR gun 6ppc, panda action, unmarked barrell, unknown round count, was told it had a .262 neck
The rifle came with 50 rounds, about 20 loaded
I measued some of the cases and there was almost 0.020 difference in lenght- when I was trimming them about 20 were so "fat" that they wouldn't go in my wilson case holder far enough to trim.
I ordered a redding small base bushing die and the hornady headspace guage.

I measured one of the case's that let the bolt close with the slightest amount of resistence. I then measured one of the cases that was very difficult to close the bolt-they measured the same with the hornady bushing/headspace guage. I decided to bump the sholder back .001 on the hard to close case-no change- .002 no change - .003 no change up to .005 to change. What is going on? I mic'ed the bodies on the two case's -same, length same, neck same. I then smoked the hard to close case and couldnt tell where it was rubbing.

I dont want to have a custom die made because I'll probably replace the barrell once I learn a little more.

What is going on? Is it possible that some of the brass that came with the gun was fired in another chamber or am I missing something?

Thanks Cody

Gene Beggs
02-24-2009, 08:51 PM
I recently got my first BR gun 6ppc, panda action, unmarked barrell, unknown round count, was told it had a .262 neck
The rifle came with 50 rounds, about 20 loaded
I measued some of the cases and there was almost 0.020 difference in lenght- when I was trimming them about 20 were so "fat" that they wouldn't go in my wilson case holder far enough to trim.
I ordered a redding small base bushing die and the hornady headspace guage.

I measured one of the case's that let the bolt close with the slightest amount of resistence. I then measured one of the cases that was very difficult to close the bolt-they measured the same with the hornady bushing/headspace guage. I decided to bump the sholder back .001 on the hard to close case-no change- .002 no change - .003 no change up to .005 to change. What is going on? I mic'ed the bodies on the two case's -same, length same, neck same. I then smoked the hard to close case and couldnt tell where it was rubbing.

I dont want to have a custom die made because I'll probably replace the barrell once I learn a little more.

What is going on? Is it possible that some of the brass that came with the gun was fired in another chamber or am I missing something?

Thanks Cody


Cody, your situation is a classic example of why I developed my own cartridges, dies, reamers etc. If you will bring your rifle and equipment to the tunnel in Odessa, Texas I can do you more good and save you more money and frustration in two days than you would believe. I can be reached at genebeggs@cableone.net or 432-631-5124. You need some help.

Gene Beggs

goodgrouper
02-24-2009, 09:19 PM
What is the diameter of the necks loaded and unloaded? Diameter of the webs?

liljoe
02-24-2009, 09:49 PM
If I were you Cody, I would jump on the first thing smokin to Gene's place and let him help you out. Like he said you will learn more in a couple days with him than you will step in, in a couple years. There is noting better than to spend some time with someone that has the been shooting with this equipment and knows some tricks. You will save lots of time and lots of money. Oh and who wouldn't love to go shoot in Gene's tunnel......

Joe Hynes

Codeman
02-25-2009, 07:32 AM
The diameter of the necks are .258 unloaded
The web diameter is about .440 (if I remember right will check when I get home)
Out of the 50 cases that came with the gun 16 chamber easliy, 18 chamber with some resistence, and 16 chamber very hard. All of this BEFORE AND AFTER I ran them through the SB FL die. Actually about on about 16 cases I couldnt close the bolt at all after just neck sizing, so I ran them through the FL die and now they close with ALOT of pressure on the bolt.

HELP

liljoe
02-25-2009, 08:17 AM
Don't go closing that bolt on a case that takes ALOT of pressure to close or you might gall the lugs. This is not a good thing to do.


Joe

R. G. Robinett
02-25-2009, 08:22 AM
I recently got my first BR gun 6ppc, panda action, unmarked barrell, unknown round count, was told it had a .262 neck
The rifle came with 50 rounds, about 20 loaded
I measued some of the cases and there was almost 0.020 difference in lenght- when I was trimming them about 20 were so "fat" that they wouldn't go in my wilson case holder far enough to trim.
I ordered a redding small base bushing die and the hornady headspace guage.

I measured one of the case's that let the bolt close with the slightest amount of resistence. I then measured one of the cases that was very difficult to close the bolt-they measured the same with the hornady bushing/headspace guage. I decided to bump the sholder back .001 on the hard to close case-no change- .002 no change - .003 no change up to .005 to change. What is going on? I mic'ed the bodies on the two case's -same, length same, neck same. I then smoked the hard to close case and couldnt tell where it was rubbing.

I dont want to have a custom die made because I'll probably replace the barrell once I learn a little more.

What is going on? Is it possible that some of the brass that came with the gun was fired in another chamber or am I missing something?

Thanks Cody

It's possible that, for your specific chamber/reamer, the cases are still too long.:D RG

tricrown
02-25-2009, 09:36 AM
If you’re sizing with a Redding body die instead of a FL die you’re not getting all the way into the neck shoulder junction. The headspace reading you’re getting is coming from about half way up the shoulder if you’re using the 350 bushing. It’ll be up higher with the 330 bushing. But probably still not into the area the body die isn’t touching. Added to that the neck bushing isn’t getting all the way down the neck either. So there’s an area there that isn’t getting sized unless you have a real FL die. What readings do you get on the bottom of the neck right before the junction? How does it look under a magnifying glass? I’d guess that’s where the difference is.

HovisKM
02-25-2009, 09:44 AM
Get new cases...fireform them....chuck them and start over when the same thing happens.

Hovis

janderson0
02-25-2009, 12:03 PM
The question was asked but not answered, what does a loaded round's neck measure?

Jim

Codeman
02-25-2009, 12:40 PM
The cases that came loaded measured .261

The cases that are hard to close the bolt on are unloaded cases that I'm trying to size before I load.

Tricrown- I'm using a redding FL small base bushing die. The only time I body sized was to be able to trim them to length (they wouldnt fit in my wilson holder far enought to trim)- and they were primed so I couldnt run them through the FL die with the decapper.

I have reloaded the 15 or so cases that came preloaded with the rifle and havent had any problems

tricrown
02-25-2009, 05:29 PM
Redding should call their FL Bushing dies a Body Bushing die instead. They do not get the full length of the case. They miss the top of the shoulder and bottom of the neck. Which is nice for case alignment in the chamber. But bad for resizing brass that was fired in another chamber. And it sounds like the 20 you’re having trouble with were fired in a chamber that is bigger than your rifle’s and what Wilson case holders are made for.

My small base body die sizes the body pretty much the same as the regular body die except it’s tighter near the base. If you have a full length die, one that doesn’t use a bushing, I’d try to bump the hard to close cases just a couple thousands and see if that works. If all you have is the FL Bushing die think about bumping those 20 hard to close cases the .005” they want to fit, keep those 20 separate from the other 30 cases, and fire form them. They’ll most likely be OK after the first firing in the chamber. In either case I’d want to keep them separate from the other 30 cases. Who knows how many more times they’ve been fired or how they’ve been treated. Used brass can be a pain.

Bob Kingsbury
02-25-2009, 08:06 PM
T he cases you describe would be better know as an assortment. Few
benchrest shooters that I know would have cases that far apart
in case length in one box. I would be very suspicious of that. Not
having any idea how many times these have been bumped, or how much
is a big issue and a dangerous one. New cases are much cheaper than
eyes or life insurance. At any rate, they are cheaper than gauld up
bolt lugs. Money well spent would be to have the barrel looked at
by someone who knows what there looking at. More sizing than needed
may not solve anything, as there are many reasons for what your finding.
Good help is not far away in Texas.

Mike Bryant
02-25-2009, 08:45 PM
I'd suggest sending a couple of cases that work well in your gun to Lynwood Harrell and have him select the correct size of his full length bushing die to match your chamber. His die is $70 and is one of the best bargains in benchrest. Then once you get the die back, chunk all your old brass and start over with new brass. That way you'll know the history of the brass. If you don't neck turn yet, you can get neck turned brass from Ron Hoehn or maybe some others. If you don't want to go with the Harrell die just yet, then chunk your old brass and start over with new. The Redding die should work, but may not size optimally for your chamber. Redding bushing dies are made to where they will work with one size up in caliber or one size down in caliber from what they are marked. So, a 6 PPC die will work for a .22 PPC or a .25 PPC with the appropriate bushing. The fact that it will work for the .25 means that the shoulder isn't being touched right at the neck shoulder junction for at least the diameter of a .25 caliber neck and even more so if it's used for a .22.