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View Full Version : Rare have I heard of a 22 hornet shooting well



Worker
02-20-2009, 05:44 AM
So what is it about this cartridge that makes it challenging ? Does the improved version improve its accuracy performance.

murphy
02-20-2009, 06:51 AM
Am not 100% sure why Hornets can be problem children but I have owned a few and I think there is more than one factor involved. Part of their problem is that generally they are built on actions more suitable for a rimfire. It would be interesting to hear from a person who has one built on a stiff front locking action with a 1 in 14 twist and a match grade barrel. With that setup I suspect that the hornet may improve a great deal. The 221 Fireball is not much bigger than a K Hornet and from most reports appears to be a very forgiving round but maybe this is a result of the strong rifles it has been built on?:confused:

p17p14enflield
02-20-2009, 07:17 AM
hi
i sound what german said !
i owen a 22hornet standerd factory per64 mod 70 winchester it still shoots 40gr speers in to a true inch and 109yards !

it grate for bunnys(to 150yard) and fox's to (200yards ) but well never be a 222rem or 223 rem

i thinks people want to much the 22 hornet this days if all the hold are touching they not happy !

LHSmith
02-20-2009, 07:25 AM
Way back when, mid 70's, I had a standard chamber Hornet, in a factory Savage Model 340, that shot dime size 5 shot groups at 100 yards consistently with a Weaver K-6 using factory ammo( on calm days.....back before I knew what a flag could do for your shooting).
I traded that rifle because it was ugly,with that side mounted scope, poorly done impressed checkering, and crude with that rough handling bolt.
Incidentally, this is around the time I first saw a real live BR rifle at the range,with it's metallic red stock....it belonged to Gary O'Cock......it would take me 25 years to realize what a great sport he was involved in.

jaberegg
02-20-2009, 12:28 PM
I've owned four Hornets, all High Walls. Back in the early 70's an old varmint hunter told me the secret to the Hornet was the rims. I made a tool to measure the rim thickness an only used the thicker rims. It's nothing to stay under 3/4" at 100 yards once you seperate the thin from the thicker rims. Yea you may go through a "few" boxes of brass to get a supply of thick rims but, isn't it worth it to have your Hornet shoot well? Just my two cents worth.

Jeff Aberegg

DickTheShooter
02-20-2009, 12:44 PM
My Savage M40 shoots 40 g V Max pushed by Little gun under a nickle most all the time if i do my part that is. It has grouped under 1/2" several times.
Dick The Shooter

David Valdina
02-20-2009, 01:50 PM
I have had a love/hate relationship with the Hornet over a lot of years. Some of the factory ammo was pretty accurate, but getting consistently accurate reloads was another matter. I got clued in as to neck tension late in my relationship, and perhaps if I had stayed with it things might have worked out. I could get wonderful accuracy reloading .222 but never arrived with the Hornet.

tim
02-20-2009, 03:45 PM
I'd guess as much as anything it would also be the lack of a shoulder on the case. I've owned Hornets and shot K-Hornets and the K's seem to be more consistant.

John Kielly
02-20-2009, 04:27 PM
There might be something in the action argument.

Here in Australia, we built a lot on the cadet Martini single shot action & they usually shot on the money. Though I didn't ever get round to buying one, the rifle we all lusted for was the Brno (CZ to you) Fox minature mauser built specifically for the Hornet. It shot up a storm, though no all that better than the Anschutz built on the match 54 action.

But that was a decade or three ago....

jjason
02-20-2009, 05:08 PM
There might be something in the action argument.

Here in Australia, we built a lot on the cadet Martini single shot action & they usually shot on the money. Though I didn't ever get round to buying one, the rifle we all lusted for was the Brno (CZ to you) Fox minature mauser built specifically for the Hornet. It shot up a storm, though no all that better than the Anschutz built on the match 54 action.

But that was a decade or three ago....

My dad built one on the martini action in the 70's and that rifle still shoots great.
Got a mate with the Bruno fox with set trigger that shoots great and the Anschutz that is improved that shoots great.
I have a old sportco that i swapped for a carton of beer,it looks pretty rough but shoots better than the ones mentioned above

alinwa
02-20-2009, 07:08 PM
I think it's because the primer's effect is too large........ This is why the "Secret Trick" for making the Hornet shoot (kinda') is to use pistol primers. I'm not advocating this, just noting it.

al

Paul Fielder
02-20-2009, 07:17 PM
...so I k'd it. Not a bug hole gun but you wouldn't want your big toe stickin out at 100tds:D

WW680 is a friend to helping the hornet on it's way for the reloader. This is 1949 BRNO ZKW 465

pf
<><

thehippy77
02-20-2009, 07:38 PM
5.54 verl the grand father of the hornet in an old sako bolt that shoots real well to 150yds

Fireball Fred
02-20-2009, 10:01 PM
first, i have never owned a hornet.
however that said, i had a contender pistol. to get rimmed cartridges (i had a 357 herrett) to shoot well in the contender one had to resize the brass to headspace on the shoulder not the rim to squeeze out respectable accuracy. yes i know the hornet doesnt have much of a shoulder to headspace on. hence the reason to make it a Khornet, in my opinion that should bring grouping alot tighter. Fred

Travelor
02-21-2009, 06:27 AM
I love this little cartridge from an aesthetic point of view, but it was a real PIA to get to shoot well!

I have three Hornets, a TC Contender (SS pistol), a Winchester Low wall, and a Anschutz 54. It has always been a real struggle to to get them under 1.5" at 100 yards for me and very frustrating.

A very good friend of mine inherited his Dad's Anschutz 54 in Hornet. His Dad was an Ophthalmologist and owned a lake cabin with other eye doc's in cabins near his. The group of docs used to take off each Wednesday afternoon and would go to the lake to shoot and visit. It was due to him and my friend that I was able to have a place to shoot and learned to reload from him. When he told me his Dad's gun was available I jumped at the chance to buy it due to it's history. I was aghast at how poorly I was able to get it to shoot - 2" at best at 100 yards.

Then I found Lil' Gun powder after some searching in the Forums. Happiness was soon found with 13 grains of Lil' Gun and a 40 grain Hornady A-Max bullet. The gun now shoots around 1/2" at 100 yards with this powder and Winchester Small Rifle primers.

George

markharp
02-21-2009, 06:51 AM
My Cooper K-Hornet will reliably put 3 under a half inch.

Alaninga
02-21-2009, 08:11 AM
I finally bought a CZ 527 22 Hornet and then shot several other rifles of the same make as a freind was a CZ rep back then. All shot close to one hole,,,,,really. Then I knew I had struggled with a Ruger 77/22 Hornet for TOO LONG. Should have bought the CZ 22 Hornet long before I did. They seem to have no problem at all with all going well under an inch @ 100.
I have long since abandoned the 22 hornet and 22 K Hornet in MUCH favor of the 17 Ackley Hornet. No reason to even own a 22 Hornet for me any more.

vmthtr in green
02-21-2009, 08:49 AM
I had a T/C barrel from Bullberry in 22 Hornet that would shoot 4/10's of an inch at 100 with speer 40g's and AA1680. I really screwed the pooch and left the rifle in my car overnight and the rifle was rusty the next day. Almost made me cry. I have a 10" hornet now that shoot just under 1" at 100 that I use for IHMSA, 55g FMJ and 5.5g or AA#2.

Mike

shawn
02-23-2009, 07:57 AM
my savage M40 w/ 40g nos bt and lil gun shootsunder 1/2' all day long. My wife who shoots very very rarely can keep it under 3/4".

Any22
02-23-2009, 09:18 PM
After 6or8 hornets I almost QUIT them The I got a CZ 527 made me in luv agin. W680 works best for me w/ small pistol primers.I dont shoot it often but when I do it brings a Grin . WELL UNDER AN INCH

OldSwede
02-24-2009, 09:47 AM
Accurate Hornet? Buy a CZ 527 and don't look back. 13.0gr of Lil'Gun and a 35gr Hornady bullet. Use great care when handling the casing. I use RCBS Competition dies and haven't had a problem. My Hornet (CZ 527 "Prestige", FWIW) is an honest "1/2" at 100y" gun. Not a benchrest candidate, but a great field gun. These is a fella over at RFC named Vincent who has a great history with this round and some good tips for reloading.

montdoug
02-26-2009, 12:16 AM
I have an Anschutz 1730 Meister Grade Hornet that is a consistent sub half inch rifle if the shooter does their part , it has since new (albeit with ammo too long for the magazine).
I also have an Anschutz Exemplar handgun (on the 54 action) with a 10 inch barrel that shot this group and many many like it including a fair number better (and I'm certainly no pistolero). Off a bi-pod rest with a 3X12 Burris Ballistic-Plex of course.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/montdoug/AnschutzExemplar027-1.jpg

I've had 2 CZ Hornets, one was turned into a .17 Ackley Hornet but on it's maiden voyage before being modified it shot this group as a standard Hornet to get a baseline before working on it. That is a 5 shot group shot with the load developed for my Anschutz using WW cases, 40 grain V-Max's, Lilgun powder and WSR primers. Good safe load, it chambered well in the CZ so I just grabbed a box of 50 and went to the range, "honest".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/montdoug/PhotoImpression4.jpg

The second CZ is one purchased last year in the new English Walnut stock. I had it K'd, bedded and re-crowned. On it's first time out with formed cases it shot these two 3 shot groups using a 4.5X14 Leupold with a varmint hunter reticle. Lower 3 were the center cross hair aimed at the black cross and the second higher three were fired using the next subtend line below center aimed at the same place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/montdoug/CZ22K-Hornetfirstgroups015.jpg

Now how is it that Hornets don't shoot? Not to be difficult but with the new rifles and especially new components that just hasn't been my experience at all, in fact of the 4 I've had I haven't had one that didn't shoot like crazy :).

P.S.
For years all the horror stories of the problems with the Hornets: fliers, crushed cases, inaccurate etc. kept me from buying one. Finally a gunshop owner told me if I bought that Anchutz and it didn't shoot he'd give me my money back. Sure glad I listened as the Hornet is one of my favorite rounds now. I've never crushed a case yet (I neck size a lot after first firing), they have all been accurate guns and the only fliers have been the ones I pulled all by myself :o.

Howdy Alan ;).

Alaninga
02-26-2009, 06:34 AM
Gee whiz Doug,,,,I thought I was through with 22 Hornets. I did like the 22 K Hornet and now that you've told this story I'm thinking maybe I DO need a 22 K Hornet. I have too many 22 caliber bullets around to not have something to pop them out of.
Looks like I'll be missing out on May's gopher trip again. A few of the guys may go,,the ones you know.
Go try to overheat a rifle barrel for me. Then go talk about it over a slice of pizza in McKennzie's for me~!
Hope you are doing well. I have to admit, other than a 17 Ackley Hornet,,,there's not much of anything neater looking than a 22 K Hornet round. Do you ever shoot gopher with any of the 22 K or standard hornets??
Alan in GA

montdoug
02-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Howdy Alan.
Sorry your not coming out but actually it has all the earmarks of crummy spring weather again this year, snowing as I type. You know the drill, sun-rain-snow wind rain-more sun-more rain-wind again-more snow, and that's in a two hour period.
Are you kidding about gophers and the .22 Hornet??? Like hand in glove, that's were it all started for me (the sub caliber stuff I mean). A Hornet pushing a 40 grain V-Max at 3,000ish fps or especially a K in the 3,200 to 3,250 fps range is a real rat spreader. capable of consistent 250 yards and better hits as well. Plus which were only talking 13ish grains of powder or so so it's cheap shooting.
I guess there's no denying the fact I'm biased,but then you know what I do with my spare time, ( which is all of it actually :D).
The only recent problems I've really heard of seems to focus around Rugers and although I've never had one I'd bet most of that centers around that nasty two piece bolt, and even some of those seem to shoot well. (In all due respect to Ruger fans).
Yep sure enough Alan, you need a Hornet...or a K...or both..;).
Have a good one. Nice seeing ya here.

Alaninga
02-26-2009, 02:01 PM
Bob P. shot his CZ American mounted in a Kevlar CZ Varmint Stock. 40 V maxes and they acted like anyone would want,,,,gopher pieces all over. His is the standard 22 hornet. I think I would HAVE to run the K reamer in mine [if I still had one].

brian roberts
02-27-2009, 07:31 PM
based on my experience with the .17 Rem, I would use a Lyman or Holland's VLD de-burring tool on the case mouths. It did make my .17 shoot better, even w/FB bullets. I also replace the springs in the Redding comp sizers, & both Redding & Forster comp seaters, that made a big difference in grouping consistency for me. HTH;) PS, I really enjoyed reading the replies, kinda like the '56 edition of the 'Handbook of Cast Bullets".

steyrl
02-28-2009, 02:02 AM
I have a BRNO ZKW465 which I bought from a farmer friend who could just about make it talk. The rifle was re-barrelled before I bought it
I, on the other hand, have never been able to get it to group under 1". I'm going to try some 35grn Hornady in it and see if that shoots OK. We can't get "Lil' Gun" here in Australia which is a pity because many threads I've read the best results are with "Lil' gun".

tuck2
02-28-2009, 02:02 AM
I have a Kimber Mdl 82 22 Hornet. I have spent more time trying to find a loaded that would group under one inch than any other rifle I have owned. I have tried full, partial, and neck sizeing the cases. Trimmed the cases after resizing. Used rifle and pistol primers, Tried Lil Gun and other powders. Crimped the bullet, Tried different brands of bullets with different bullet seating free bore. Got a 221 Fireball rifle a few years ago , now that darn Hornet stays at home...

Alaninga
02-28-2009, 09:05 AM
and I really did try to love it. It looked so 'right'. The ONLY thing about it's appearance and carrying characteristics was the slightly W-I-D-E mid stock where the rotary clip is mounted,,,,,and,,,,
it drove me nuts trying to get some consistence and accuracy. It would torment me by putting 3 into about 0.6" @ 100 yards,,,then the second 3 shot group would also be small, but the center of the group would move an inch or more.
When I wanted to finally build my first 17 Ackley Hornet, I inspected the Ruger one more time,,,pushed my thumb against the side of the closed bolt front section and watched and felt it move to the side,,,,too much for me. Decided then and there to sell it and buy a CZ. I "K" 'd the Ruger before selling too. I guess I could have done this and that to the Ruger, but others were posting of the same problems so it wasn't too painful to 'set it free'.:D
I only have 17AH CZ rifles now but I would enjoy taking a CZ .22 Hornet and running a "K" reamer into it.

montdoug
03-02-2009, 09:42 PM
Alan that group I posted of the 527 I had K'd last year was one that CZ ran with an English Walnut stock. I tried real hard to talk one of the guys into buying it and when no one would I had to do it myself. Now I see that that was a short lived run and all of their fancy stocked models have been discontinued, sometimes having zero willpower is a good thing. Glad I got it while they made em. In our short time together I've come to really like this critter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/montdoug/CZHornetwithEnglishWalnut053-1.jpg

I have some Calhoon Magazines that will feed the K-Hornet that I got for the .17 Ackley but being a single shot guy at heart I am just using Calhoons single shot follower. That picture doesn't do that rifle justice and you know me, I'm a CZ junkie.

Alaninga
03-02-2009, 09:54 PM
I wish Calhoun would make a run of his single shot adaptors and make them out of black Delrin or whatever hard high lubricity plastic that works best in CNC machines. I have a couple of his extremely well made ssa's in blued steel. They do work WELL~!
I have a few home made plastice [black Delrin] SSA models that work, but Calhoun's model would be nice in lightweight plastic/Teflon/Delrin.

Fancy CZ stocks,,,,I put my CZ 527 in 7.62 x 39 Carbine in an American stock. Had to remove the barrel first and lathe turn off the rear open sight 'knot' so I wouldn't have to inlet for it in the American stock. Now I have a nice scope perfect 7.62 x 39 in a 'sporter' stock and it looks and shoots great.

Browndaug
03-04-2009, 09:34 PM
I picked up this Savage 219 just because the case colour was so nice. It turned out to be a MOA shooter with most of the ligter bullets and just doats on 46gr Winchest HP's. I use a 218 Bee die and just patiallu size the neck just enought to hold the bullet.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/Browndaug/219wscope001.jpg

Browndaug

Paul Fielder
03-05-2009, 01:19 PM
...so I k'd it. Not a bug hole gun but you wouldn't want your big toe stickin out at 100tds:D

WW680 is a friend to helping the hornet on it's way for the reloader. This is 1949 BRNO ZKW 465

pf
<><


I should mention I have this rig for sale...it was up in the classifieds a month or two ago.

Just not hunting with it any longer and have my eye's on some new optics.:cool::cool:

pf
<><

montdoug
03-05-2009, 08:05 PM
I picked up this Savage 219 just because the case colour was so nice. It turned out to be a MOA shooter with most of the ligter bullets and just doats on 46gr Winchest HP's. I use a 218 Bee die and just patiallu size the neck just enought to hold the bullet.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/Browndaug/219wscope001.jpg

Browndaug

That's a nice looking rifle, just different enough that I could develop a deep meaningful relationship with it :D.

langenc
03-14-2009, 07:36 PM
Alinwa-I was about to ask who uses pistol primers in the Hornet??

40 or 45 gr bullet w/ Lilgun and pistol primers.

YOOO VINNY
03-15-2009, 07:54 AM
I've done my "penitence" time with a few different Hornets over the years, that included lot's of fustration and head scratching.
I still shoot two, a winny 43 and a ruger sporter that still wears the wood stock, but has been upgraded to a 23" heavy barrel.
Setting back the barrels and reaming the chamber to K has made life much easier, as finding brass with consistent and to spec rim thickness is almost a lesson in futility.

I'm curious if anyone has experience with the newer Savage model 40 ?
I've yet to hear anything about these, though they've been available for a few years.

montdoug
03-15-2009, 09:42 AM
Alinwa-I was about to ask who uses pistol primers in the Hornet??

40 or 45 gr bullet w/ Lilgun and pistol primers.

I've heard that is real popular with a lot of guys and have read of fellas who swear by it but that's not my experience.
Interestingly to the Hornet topic was a 2 piece article written by Ross Sefried a number of years ago about his experiences with the Hornet. It was a two piece article that came out 1/2 one month in "Rifle" and the other 1/2 the next month in "Handloader".
It was a great article that I have kept somewhere as text. In that article Sefried spoke of the pistol primers as providing better accuracy in some loads than small rifle. The one I remember he stated the pistol primers specifically did not help for him was in the loads he tried with the "then new" Lil'Gun. I remember that well cause I read that at a point where I had just discovered Lil'Gun and as with most guys was still in amazement of how it changed the Hornet. That was also the point I discovered that if you leave Lil'Gun in an RCBS plastic powder measure tube overnight it will actually eat into the tube and leave an orange-peel effect when you then empty it. I called Hodgdon on that one and was informed Lil'Gun has a very high "nitro" content and that was the reason for the eating into the plastic. I also surmised that is the reason for the sometimes wild velocity spreads with it, it's kinda damp almost and hard to get lit consistently. I also felt that's why neither Ross Sefried nor myself had any luck with pistol primers using it.
I do have one friend swears that the answer to that is a good crimp so it has time for a consistent burn/consistent pressure and not spraying unburned powder out the barrel. (Lay a white sheet out in front of a bench when shooting Lil'Gun, especially with pistol primers. You'll be amazed how much unburned powder will collect on the sheet).
All that aside, my load is WW cases, WSR primers, Lil'Gun and 40 grain V-Max's seated out too far to fit the magazines in my CZ's or Asnchutz's without magazine modification. Mostly I just shoot single shot cause most of my rifles are anyway.
Sorry about being so windy.

coopershooter1
01-19-2010, 03:08 PM
The 22 Hornet is a great teaching tool for beginners besides the .22LR. I have been shooting the Hornet since around '93 with great luck. Loads and groups well.

The following pics are my witness:

Doug Kennedy
01-21-2010, 07:48 AM
Why isn't a 1932 V8 Ford (in stock condition) considered a fast car? It was pretty good in its day

All was good,untill it was time to do a valve job,or adjust the valves:D

onomrbil
01-22-2010, 07:30 PM
I have a 10" Contender Barrel and used to have a 26" Encore barrel both in 22 Hornet. The Contender barrel would outshoot the Encore barrel any time at 50 yds. They were both about the same at 100 yds. The Hornet never was a precision round and it can be difficult to get one to group MOA at 100 yds. I eventually gave up on the Encore barrel even after returning it to TC ("it shoots to specifications"), and had it re-chambered to 22 BR. Now it shoots!

Harold M
01-26-2010, 06:26 PM
I abandoned Lil' Gun in my K-Hornet because of high velocity spreads. Also, the high velocities came at the expense of short brass (WW) life - 5 loads to loose primers. Only WW pistol primers seemed to tame the velocity spead, but the high velocities went away as well. The 40 V-Max in my 1 in 14 twist barrel works wonders.

zeke mccune
01-30-2010, 05:17 PM
Hi Gang:

While I was in the local gun store today, I was informed about two Hornets that would shoot 1/4" groups all day. One was a Ruger 77 and the other was a Browning Mini.

I invited them to show me how well these guns will shoot but as always, I never get taken up on my offer. LOL

Zeke

langenc
01-30-2010, 05:44 PM
Where might one find those Hornets??

frwillia
01-31-2010, 02:56 PM
So what is it about this cartridge that makes it challenging ? Does the improved version improve its accuracy performance.

I agree with several other posters, the CZ527 Hornet is a shooter. Mine shoots the 35g V-Max over 13.2g of Lil'Gun at 3/4 MOA or less.

It's a great walk around varmint rifle. Not too loud, drops GH and fox right in their shadow, easy to reload for, inexpensive to shoot.

Lot to like about that cartridge in the CZ.

Fitch

chink
03-21-2010, 11:01 AM
american rifle makers use sammi spec. chambers,the european makers use cip spec. . the cip chamber is tighter then the sammi,and shoots much better out of the box.
in most cases handloading for american made hornets will get you better accuracy.
neck sizing only and just half way down the neck,and useing the lee collet sizing die and crimp die willl help. as the hornet case is thin and a roll crimp will crush the case mouth in most cases.
the hornet is easy to reload and cheap to shoot,there is a wealth of info online on reloading this fine little round.

MarkR
03-21-2010, 11:20 AM
Once that a person realizes that the Hornet is NOT a benchrest cartridge...Most of the modern rifles that were chambered for it will shoot 1/2 minute of groundhog or better at it's effective range (balistically) for vermin. It is still fine for what it was intended and if you need more, step up to the 218 Bee or 222.
Mark

keithcandler
03-27-2010, 01:57 AM
love hate affair. Anyone remotely considering a 22 Hornet should go the 17 Ackley Hornet or a 221 Fireball instead. I shudder to think of the money that I have wasted on trying to get various hornets to shoot. I even went the total custom route on a 22 K hornet. First trip to the range with a 221 FB and you are done with load development, close to the same thing with the 17 Ackley Hornet.

Alaninga
03-27-2010, 06:44 AM
love hate affair. Anyone remotely considering a 22 Hornet should go the 17 Ackley Hornet or a 221 Fireball instead. I shudder to think of the money that I have wasted on trying to get various hornets to shoot. I even went the total custom route on a 22 K hornet. First trip to the range with a 221 FB and you are done with load development, close to the same thing with the 17 Ackley Hornet.

As I read this post I thought "Gee this guy has the same experiences I've had"...THEN, I realize it was KC. I purchased my first 17 cal barrel blank from you, right? Either that or maybe a friend of yours?
Yup, the important thing is, any true rifle enthusiast is MISSING OUT if he has not built or owned a 17 Ackley Hornet. And yes, my .221FB was a one holer out of my first factory CZ. 1680 powder under the 40 Vmax...bang zoom, load done. Make 500 for Montana and 'go'. And of course make at least 1,200 rounds of 17AH each and every trip. My 17AH is still going and accurate at just over 6,000 rounds thru the tube. Lots of 17AHs getting built around here.

Dennis Sorensen
03-27-2010, 11:37 AM
So what is it about this cartridge that makes it challenging ? Does the improved version improve its accuracy performance.

I think it has to do with being a rimmed cartridge and the size of case and the primer.

Dennis Sorensen
03-27-2010, 11:41 AM
As I read this post I thought "Gee this guy has the same experiences I've had"...THEN, I realize it was KC. I purchased my first 17 cal barrel blank from you, right? Either that or maybe a friend of yours?
Yup, the important thing is, any true rifle enthusiast is MISSING OUT if he has not built or owned a 17 Ackley Hornet. And yes, my .221FB was a one holer out of my first factory CZ. 1680 powder under the 40 Vmax...bang zoom, load done. Make 500 for Montana and 'go'. And of course make at least 1,200 rounds of 17AH each and every trip. My 17AH is still going and accurate at just over 6,000 rounds thru the tube. Lots of 17AHs getting built around here.

I built a 17 AI Hornet... shot fairly well but the barrel showed considerably throat wear in 400 rounds and accuracy dropped ... the barrel maker replaced the barrel... second barrel did the same thing... that is the last barrel I use from that maker (an old name maker)... my Shilen barrel in 17 Remington AI shot thousands...

Walt Collins
03-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Case design: The Ackley with it's shoulder is a much better mouse trap.
Case quality: Due to the thin cases, it doesn't take much to get the runout to unacceptable limits. Further, brass inconsistency with the small case capacity, leads to inaccuracy. You definately should turn necks to clean them up for concentricity reasons as well as consistent bullet grip. Weighing cases and discarding those with greater variations of .001 case wall thickness is a must.
Tighter than SAMMI chambers: Tight chambers are a must when dealing with such thin brass. You need a good custom reamer to closely match the turned brass. The further you have to move brass to resize the worse it will distort.
Good quality barrel and actions: Many hornets get their bad reputation from being chambered in smaller and many times cheaper actions. Get the best, true it, use a barrel from a top manufacturer and you are on your way.
Shoot the best bullets you can find. Weigh your bullets as small variations in weight equate to big variations on target using such a little case.
The same goes for powder charges as we all know.
Essentially, I find I am playing the benchrest game with this tiny cartridge.

frwillia
03-30-2010, 09:20 AM
Case design: The Ackley with it's shoulder is a much better mouse trap.
Case quality: Due to the thin cases, it doesn't take much to get the runout to unacceptable limits. Further, brass inconsistency with the small case capacity, leads to inaccuracy. You definately should turn necks to clean them up for concentricity reasons as well as consistent bullet grip. Weighing cases and discarding those with greater variations of .001 case wall thickness is a must.
Tighter than SAMMI chambers: Tight chambers are a must when dealing with such thin brass. You need a good custom reamer to closely match the turned brass. The further you have to move brass to resize the worse it will distort.
Good quality barrel and actions: Many hornets get their bad reputation from being chambered in smaller and many times cheaper actions. Get the best, true it, use a barrel from a top manufacturer and you are on your way.
Shoot the best bullets you can find. Weigh your bullets as small variations in weight equate to big variations on target using such a little case.
The same goes for powder charges as we all know.
Essentially, I find I am playing the benchrest game with this tiny cartridge.

Wow. That's all good to know I suppose, but I guess it depends on what one is going to do with the rifle. I just hunt ground hogs and other small varmints with my Hornet. It gets shot at paper to check the scope every spring (already been there done that for this year).

The following apply to my CZ .22 Hornet and .223 CZ American.

I've never weighed a bullet or a case for a Hornet. Never turned a neck. Never checked runout. Never bought a good custom reamer or after market barrel. I shoot unturned Winchester brass. Stick in whatever small rifle primer is in stock when loading them. I do shoot only 35g V-Max and 13.2g of Lil'Gun because they work every time.

I do weigh the charges although I'm not convinced that's actually necessry - one could pour the case full of Lil'Gun, wipe it off level with a finger, press in the 35g V-max seated out to where it will just fit in the magazine, and it will shoot 3 shot clover leafs and bugholes (it's a 3 shot group rifle used to kill one shot ground hogs - 5 shot groups are endless frustration - the first shot from a cold bore is what counts). I just load them in my CZ and go kill ground hogs. It's about a 200 to 225 to yard rifle with the 3-9 duplex scope on it - it's sighted 1" high at 100 yards.

I've never, ever, had a ground hog complan that I didn't have a custom barrel, turned necks, special reamer, pistol primer, or anything, 'cause they are DRT right after the bang (with so little recoil I get to see the impact). The entrance wound is almost always right where I wanted it to be.

I did pillar bed the action into the stock. I discovered Lil'Gun on my second load development experiment. That was the end of load development. That was about the extent of my fussing.

One of the beautiful things about this cartridge, at least in my little CZ, is how easy it is to use. Load a bunch of ammo - I usually load a couple hundred rounds at a time, last me 3 or 4 years. Shoot a foulers and two more in the spring to check the scope. Clean it in the fall after killing 25 to 35 ground hogs with it, repeat the next summer. I have 500 or so brass. As easy as Lil'Gun is on the brass that's looking like a life time supply.

If I had to play the benchrest game with my Hornet or my .223CZ it I'd sell them in a heartbeat. Life's too short to have to shoot bench rest ammo at ground hogs. I bought them to be walk around hunting rifles that are carried on a sling and fired 99% of the time from field positions.

The accuracy limit in the field is my ability to hold the rifle, not the rifle.

I like the CZ Hornet and the CZ .223in large part because they are such easy keepers and shoot so well with so little fuss. Aim, fire, game drops dead, savor little spurt of pleasure from successful shot, look for next one. It's a great way to hunt. Work real fine, last long time, no muss, no fuss, hit what you aim at. Lot to like about that.

Fitch

langenc
03-30-2010, 09:33 AM
I ran into an old gentleman at a gunshow 5 yrs ago. We were looking at some 22H stuff at a table, brass, bullets etc.

Somehow it came out that he had 700 cases. I told him he better get shooting or he'd never use it all-he was 75 or so.

Alaninga
03-30-2010, 09:35 AM
I agree, the 17AH is EASY! No turn, rarely 'clean/tumble', just load 'em and shoot 'em.
One of my 17AH reamers cuts a rather large neck, it expands about 0.009" each firing and still last at least 6 loads [and going]. So the 'thin walled case' seems to not know it is 'weak'! WW brass takes a beating and keeps on going. The other is a tight spec reamer that will make a chamber 'fit to' Winchester brass. No expansion ring on any load, hot or not. It is the reamer used now, the first 'sloppy' reamer is in retirement. It could get sent back to Clymer one day for a 'trim', but with the newer reamer made to spec, the older one will reside in a reamer tube until needed.
Also, you 17AH'ers, have you ever needed to size anything other than the neck? I think the hornet case, being "thin" walled, will cram into a chamber EVEN IF it is a bit expanded. A thicker walled case might HAVE TO be sized a bit in the body and shoulder. My CZs in 17AH will CRAM that thin walled case in if they have to..Ha!
Yes, the 17 Ackley Hornet is my favorite round....and I have owned a LOT of rifles in 45 years of shooting [42 years of reloading].
I wouldn't mind if it were a rimless case, but jumping up to the .17 Mach IV/Fireball takes a tad more powder when it just isn't needed under a 20 gr bullet.
Yes, I have a 17 Mach IV, too. PacNor 3 groove Super match 9" twist. It's a one holer, but it gets shot about half as much as the 17AH in Montana.
I've got friends that have built several 17 PeeWees and have the reamer available, but when I put a Mach IV case next to a 17 PeeWee and 17 Ack Hnt case, it's not quite worth the expense just to get a rimless case version of the 17AH. I'll just take the RIMMED hornet case and live it.....and do it very well!

Joe Entrekin
05-11-2010, 09:15 AM
Just thought I would add a little to this thread, now that I've gotten some results to ponder. Had an Anschutz 1730D converted to K-Hornet with a reamer specially made by Dave Kiff. He had told me that I should expect the rifle to be more efficient with this chamber (that means lower powder charge for the smae performance). Well, it was a bit more efficient than I expected, so it's taken me a couple extra trips to the range to sort it out. This thing will start loosening primer pockets & seperating cases at anything over 12.5 grs of Lil'Gun. My other K-Hornet with SAAMI chamber can go to about 13.5 grs without wreaking havoc on the brass. Anyway, I have settled on a load of 12.2 - 12.3 grs of Lil'Gun with 40 V-Max in Winchester brass for the time being, and it yeilds 3220 fps chronograghed at about 15 ft frome muzzle. The really interesting part of this is the primers. I have tried WSR, 205M, CCI Small Pistol, Rem 6 1/2, and now Wolf SR (not SRM). With all the others, my SD numbers were in the 25 - 35 range. I shot four 10 shot groups over the Chrono with the Wolf SR primed loads and SD's were 16, 16, 16, and 18. Best I have seen by far. If you can get your hands on some of these, give them a try. Also, just seat them like a WSR or similar, no crush seating with these, or you will get FTF problems. Please report your results to this thread.

WisFinnlander
05-11-2010, 10:39 PM
Just had to turn my Cz into a K Hornet. Always had big velocity spreads with lilgun and thought the k job would help. Didn't do any thing for the velocity variation and poi especially at long range (300 yds). Just recently tried 40 grain blitzkings and 12.2 grains of 296, velocity around 3050 fps and small spreads. Really pleased with the accuracy, last four three shot groups were under .400 with the small one going .285 ( 100 Yards). I use a Lee collet die with a spacer for neck sizing and a Redding seater. Have not seen any case lengthening in four firings. Dale