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Chet
02-07-2009, 04:32 PM
I have a Pacnor 29" 8 twist heavy contour, Savage action on a custom stock with a 3" wide forend, but this gun will shoot the 107MK and the 80 Fowlers, but I want to get this gun to shoot the 105 Amax, reason is I shoot a 223 with a 9 twist and shoot the 75 Amax and they are devastating on chucks at all ranges, this is why I am trying to see if I get get the 105 Amax to shoot, so far I am tried 30, 30.3 of Varget .010 off the lands, I just got home from the range, best I can get was 1 1/4" at 200yds, this is very poor especially when I took along my Savage model 11g with a pencil barrel 223 and with 55 vamax shooting 3/4". now my 6BR will shoot the 107mk and the 80 Fowlers good, but what can I try next to get the 105Amax bullet to shoot.


thanks
Chet

Boyd Allen
02-07-2009, 04:52 PM
Why off the lands?

Chet
02-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Why off the lands?


hello Boyd

I will try a few loads touching or .010 longer, should that be worth a try.


Chet

Charles E
02-07-2009, 05:46 PM
I would be quite surprised if jamming a bullet would shrink groups by 50%, though of course, it wouldn't hurt to try. I would guess that either your barrel/powder combination doesn't work with these bullets, or perhaps you have an old lot?

The first 6mm A-max were hand made. Bob Crone was selected to be a tester. He used them in 1,000 yard benchrest to take a lot of wood. When he ran out, the second batch (factory, not hand produced) didn't let him or anyone else into the winner's circle. Word is Hornady got its act together an the newer ones are quite good. If yours are new, you might also try changing powder, but it may be a "barrel thing" & you'll have to use a different bullet.

FWIW

Al Nyhus
02-08-2009, 04:57 AM
Chet, what other powders have you tried with the 105 AMaxes?

Chet
02-08-2009, 06:13 AM
Chet, what other powders have you tried with the 105 AMaxes?
yesterday I was using Varget, today I am going to try some 28 & 29grs of RL-15 and 30.3, 30.6 of varget with some 205m, BR4 &450 primers all 105Amax one or 2 loads jumping .020 & .030 the rest from .010-.020 jamming. any other powders worth a try.

Chet

wnroscoe
02-08-2009, 06:32 AM
Chet,

Go straight to -.010" from a hard jam, 30.5 - 31.0 Varget or 32.5 - 33.0 RL-15and the CCI450's. Your Varget load may be a little light.

6BR
02-08-2009, 12:24 PM
I am currently using the 105grn A-Max, 30.3grns of Varget, Lapua Brass and CCI 450 primers. My rifle really likes this combo. I am currently shooting groups in the .0's and .1's. I am using .002 neck tension and I am jumping them .010. I am shooting them out of Bartlein 28", 1-8 twist, .236 bore, 5R barrel. My velocity is 2880fps. When I start shooting F-Class comp, I am going to use the 105grn Scenar. However, for long range varminting, the 105 A-Max gives the shooter the best of both worlds, high BC with good expansion.

With your 1-9 twist barrel, I think you might need to bump your powder charge up to 30.5 or 30.8 and see how that works. Jump your bullet .010 and bump the powder charge like I said, and I bet your groups will get better.

Chet
02-08-2009, 12:26 PM
I am currently using the 105grn A-Max, 30.3grns of Varget, Lapua Brass and CCI 450 primers. My rifle really likes this combo. I am currently shooting groups in the .0's and .1's. I am using .002 neck tension and I am jumping them .010. I am shooting them out of Bartlein 28", 1-8 twist, .236 bore, 5R barrel. My velocity is 2880fps. When I start shooting F-Class comp, I am going to use the 105grn Scenar. However, for long range varminting, the 105 A-Max gives the shooter the best of both worlds, high BC with good expansion.

With your 1-9 twist barrel, I think you might need to bump your powder charge up to 30.5 or 30.8 and see how that works. Jump your bullet .010 and bump the powder charge like I said, and I bet your groups will get better.

6BR

I have an 8 twist

Chet

Chet
02-08-2009, 12:38 PM
I wnnt back to the range this morning and the results were better than yesterday, although it was windy, it blew my gun case off of one the shooting ables, and my gloves off my table, about 40 deg, but anyways this is how it shot, there were a few loads that shot OK approx 3/4" and 2 loads stood out one load had 3 touching with 2 flyers out to 1" the 3 touching was just under 1/2" and that was 28grs RL-15, 105Amax, 450 primer OAL was 2.435 and that is -.020 the 105Amax touch the lands at 2.453, next load was 30.4 Varget, BR4 primer,105Amax, at a OAL of 2.460 this had no flyers and shot 1/2" to 9/16 all shots were at 200yds, my barrel lenght is right at 27" of rifling or a little over 29" barrel length. I did not bring my chrono today, but was would the estimated velocities be with these 2 loads, considering the windy conditions I am happier today.


Chet

Chet
02-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Chet
30.4 grains of Varget is in the 2850 fps range in my guns.Varget in the long barrels runs about 100 fps per grain of powder after 28.0 grains.You can rule of thumb it at about 10fps per 0.1 grain of increase.
What action are you using? and how big is your current barrel contour?
You can also generaly use alot more RE15 than you are using before you see pressure.
Lynn


Hi Lynn


I tried 32 of RL 15 blew holes in the primers and shot 2-3 in group and I am using a Savage action, with a heavy contour barrel, around 1" at the muzzle straight taper.

Chet

Chet
02-08-2009, 02:49 PM
Chet
On the RE15 I would start at 31.5 or 31.6 as it seems to like that area in alot of guns.
If you had a remington action or clone I could send you a known good barrel and load combination to try out in it.
Lynn


Lynn

what kind of velocities are we talking with 31.5 of RL-15 and I don't quite understand, the difference of a Rem & Sav action, have to do with a load combo

Chet

jackie schmidt
02-08-2009, 07:08 PM
A bunch of us were at Tomball today, and Ed Bernabeo had his 1-8 twist, 28 inch long .236 6-groove Krieger 6BR out. This is a barrel block Rifle on a Shehane Stock that we put together last year. The action is a Bat SV.

With the 105 A-Max in front of enough Reloader 15 in front of CCI 450 primers to get an average 2960 fps, accuracy was outstanding. At 100 yards, he shot several mid two five shot groups, and nailed one that I measured at .152. That is pretty darned good.

As for Varget, back when I did the extreme accuracy test with my Rail Gun for 6mmBR.com, I found it to be mediocre at best when it came to overall agging capability......
...JACKIE

Chet
02-08-2009, 07:39 PM
A bunch of us were at Tomball today, and Ed Bernabeo had his 1-8 twist, 28 inch long .236 6-groove Krieger 6BR out. This is a barrel block Rifle on a Shehane Stock that we put together last year. The action is a Bat SV.

With the 105 A-Max in front of enough Reloader 15 in front of CCI 450 primers to get an average 2960 fps, accuracy was outstanding. At 100 yards, he shot quite a few mid two five shot groups, and nailed one that I measured at .152. That is pretty darned good..........JACKIE



Jackie

Hopefully I will get close, a question Jackie, since you are a seasoned competitor, do you feel once a gun is tuned like the one you mentioned, is good to go and start shooting 600-700 yds or would you shoot some groups at longer ranges to see how they group there.

Chet

jackie schmidt
02-08-2009, 07:55 PM
When we did that test a couple of years ago, I did all of the extreme accuracy tuning at 200 yards.

When we finally moved to the 600 yard line at Golden Triangle Gunclub, the first group with the best load at 200 was a tad over 1.6 inches. The wind started to kick up after that, but I never shot anything bigger than about 4.5 inches.

That was with the Berger 105 VLD and enough reloader 15 to push it 3000 fps.

The complete report on that is over on the 6mmBR Site.........jackie

UncleB
02-09-2009, 08:29 PM
I have a Pacnor 29" 8 twist heavy contour, Savage action on a custom stock with a 3" wide forend, but this gun will shoot the 107MK and the 80 Fowlers, but I want to get this gun to shoot the 105 Amax, reason is I shoot a 223 with a 9 twist and shoot the 75 Amax and they are devastating on chucks at all ranges, this is why I am trying to see if I get get the 105 Amax to shoot, so far I am tried 30, 30.3 of Varget .010 off the lands, I just got home from the range, best I can get was 1 1/4" at 200yds, this is very poor especially when I took along my Savage model 11g with a pencil barrel 223 and with 55 vamax shooting 3/4". now my 6BR will shoot the 107mk and the 80 Fowlers good, but what can I try next to get the 105Amax bullet to shoot.


thanks
Chet

I have been coming on this forum for a couple of years now but never registered because I like to read others ideas and try and keep up on the latest but dont really have time to post that much. after reading this thread I figured it was time to register because nobody in my mind came close to the problem that Chet is having.
I have had the same problem as Chet (and think) I know the source of the problem.
Chet has a Pac-Nor 1-8" twist, if it is a 3 groove that is the source of the problem. the 3 groove tears up the A-Max jacket as it is the softest of any.
On my last (and I do mean last EVER) Pac-Nor 3 groove ,I switched to the 105gr VLD Berger and even though they still have a fairly soft J4 jacket they hold up to the 3 groove better have a much better B.C. and are still devastating on chuck's.
I love the 107SMK's too, but at 6BR velocities they are not that great on chuck's.
Just my opinion, the best 6BR combo for chuck's is the Berger 95gr VLD, better B.C. than the 105gr A-Max and even more devastating.
UB

Chet
02-09-2009, 08:40 PM
I have been coming on this forum for a couple of years now but never registered because I like to read others ideas and try and keep up on the latest but dont really have time to post that much. after reading this thread I figured it was time to register because nobody in my mind came close to the problem that Chet is having.
I have had the same problem as Chet (and think) I know the source of the problem.
Chet has a Pac-Nor 1-8" twist, if it is a 3 groove that is the source of the problem. the 3 groove tears up the A-Max jacket as it is the softest of any.
On my last (and I do mean last EVER) Pac-Nor 3 groove ,I switched to the 105gr VLD Berger and even though they still have a fairly soft J4 jacket they hold up to the 3 groove better have a much better B.C. and are still devastating on chuck's.
I love the 107SMK's too, but at 6BR velocities they are not that great on chuck's.
Just my opinion, the best 6BR combo for chuck's is the Berger 95gr VLD, better B.C. than the 105gr A-Max and even more devastating.
UB


Hello UB

Now that stands a reason, because the Berger 105 and 95 do shoot with no flyers, thanks for the info, and back to the reloading bench

Chet

UncleB
02-09-2009, 09:04 PM
Chet,
Just one other little piece of info, the 95gr VLD's have a very short bearing surface, if your chamber has a long throat they might not shoot that well for you. if your chamber has a short throat and you can come close to touching the lands these bullets can shoot extremely well. once you try them on chucks you will forget about the other bullet's. good luck
UB

chris 308
02-09-2009, 09:40 PM
Jackie, what were your results with the V-V powders/105 bergers with the rail gun tests? chris

stevelong
02-10-2009, 12:56 PM
Hi Chet, me too me too....
I have a rem 700 & 30" 8-twist Krieger tube. Can't eat Amax's.
It hates 105 Amax's & I wish it would shoot 'em.
My first stabs at this gun shot 'em barely ok at 100,200 yards but keyholes 'em at 500. They scatter all over a 3 foot area at 500 yards, with all the various proper powders, both br4's & Fed match primers too.
Gun shoots 107 MKs, 105 VLD Bergers, and 95 VLD Bergers all into generally less than 1.75" at 500 on most calm days. My gun seems to like the 95VLDs & 87 VMAX's both real well, I've shot a lot of 1.1, 1.3, 1.5" 500 yd. groups with both of these bullets.
My favorite 500 yard coyote load is around 29.0-h322 with 87Vmax jammed & fed sm match primers. It shoots real good & real consistent, not temp-sensitive.
It shoots 105 VLD bergers real well, jammed, at 500 with a good stiff load of n540 & br4's.
In order my best 4 grouping bullets are 95 Berger vld, 105 berger vld, 87 vmax & 107 MK.
FYI, good luck, Steve Long

jackie schmidt
02-10-2009, 01:20 PM
The N140 shot quite well, but inmy opinion, not quite as well as the Reloader-15.

That barrel, for somereason, really liked reloader 15.

As a added note, one bullet it would not shioot that well was the Lapua Scenar 105, which is a beautiful bullet. I think the barrel, (a .237 4-groove), was a little loose for them, as all of the ones I had measured no bigger than .2427 any where on the shank.

Howerver, Ed's Rifle, which has a .236 6-groove Krieger, loves them.......jackie

trouble
02-11-2009, 03:55 PM
I have shot a lot of modified 6br rounds in the last 10 years in comp. and also on ground hogs and have found that AA 2460, AA2520 abd Norma 203-B powders have shot the best in 4 different rifles. If the 105 A-Max doesn't get the job done(try hard in the lands and way off the lands before you give up on them) maybe the 87 gr V-Max might be better. Also the 450CCI primer might help.

Chet
02-14-2009, 05:58 PM
back from load testing the 6BR today, found that the 105 Amaxs did their thing today 31 grs RL-15 450 primer, shot 4 touching and the 4th about 3/8 out, this looks good so far, excellent accuracy but the bolt has a little effort to lift it, can I try dropping 3 tenths of a grain, so the bolt will be easier to lift and not lose accuracy, made the load .010 longer from contact on the lands

Chet
ps what is an estimated velocity 27" of rifling with an 8 twist