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Jeremyks
01-18-2009, 07:04 PM
Im looking for opinions on various 22 wildcats. Whats everybodies thoughts and opinions on the 22-284, 22-243 (in various flavors), and the 22-47? does one out preform the other?

f d shuster
01-18-2009, 07:19 PM
Better be real quick on your load development, if you're concerned about even basic accuracy: the barrel(s) will be burned-out in a very short time. What you are describing are radically overbore. You're 22x243 would be very close to a "Cheetah", proven barrel life of 800 rds. Have fun, and very deep pockets.

Jeremyks
01-18-2009, 07:37 PM
This will not be a bench rifle, it will be a coyote gun so round count is not much of a concern.

Larry Elliott
01-18-2009, 10:36 PM
It will unless you plan on calling the coyotes up real close after a few hundred rounds. Even a .243 loaded warmish is all done at 1500-1800 rounds on prairie dogs at 75 yards, and I'd expect a .22/243 to be half that and a .22/284 to be maybe 500 to 600 rounds until the only way you could hit the broadside of a barn would be from the inside and up close.

A .22-250 Ackley will be pretty close to the larger cases in velocity with 50-55 gr bullets, and not far behind with heavier ones. I think I'd go with a .22 BR which uses less powder and produces velocities that are equal or not far behind the .22-250 Rem.

JMHO though, it's your money and the barrel makers will LOVE you.... :eek:

Greyfox
01-19-2009, 05:45 AM
A 22BR or a 22 Dasher will do what you want with a helluvalot less powder and longer barrel life.

Rick

marion packett
01-19-2009, 11:05 AM
223 improved with fast twist using 65-75 gr bullets will kill further than the overbore ones with 50-55 gr. bullets. The 223 improved will equal velosities of 22 BR with less powder and you will get great barrel life!

Ackman
01-19-2009, 01:55 PM
223 improved with fast twist using 65-75 gr bullets will kill further than the overbore ones with 50-55 gr. bullets. The 223 improved will equal velosities of 22 BR with less powder and you will get great barrel life!

No. The 223AI is a terrific cartridge but it doesn't equal the 22BR....just won't. My 223AI load is 50's at 3825, about 150-175fps less than the 22BR.

Ackman
01-19-2009, 02:03 PM
I think a 22-250AI is about the practical limit to powder burned vs. velocity with a 22cal. It'll push 50-55gr bullets about as fast as they need to go. Over 4200 with 50's and 4000-4100 with 55's. The load in one of mine is 50's at 4247. Past that case capacity and you start burning increasingly more powder for less and less gain in velocity.

t.duley
01-19-2009, 04:33 PM
What causes the barrel to burn out? Is it speed? or is it all of that powder it use's or pressure?

It looks to me if you did not get the barrel to hot they would shoot for ever?

Larry Elliott
01-19-2009, 04:56 PM
Amongst other things pouring a lot of hot gases down a relatively small hole causes barrels to wear out. As an example a .308 Win has a long barrel life, several thousand rounds before it falls to the level where a mere mortal would consider the barrel in need of replacement. The .243 Win, which is the same case with a bore ~0.065" smaller has a much shorter barrel life. The smaller the bore in relation to the case capacity, the more likely that a slower burning powder will be needed to achieve optimum results and the slower burning powders will not do that little bore much good.

The .22 Hornet with a very small case capacity has a nearly unlimited barrel life, the .222 Rem which is some larger has a long barrel life (6000+), the .223 which is larger than the .222 by maybe 20% can go through a barrel in 3-5000 rounds, the .22-250 which is another 20-25% larger than the .223 can chew up a barrel in 2000 rounds. For each increase in case capacity there's about a half that increase in muzzle velocity. A Hornet can fire a 40 gr bullet at 2900 fps, a .22-250 with ~2.5 to 3 times the case capacity can move the same bullet at 4100 fps (velocities from Hornady's 5th Ed manual).

Overheating the barrel will certainly shorten its life. Fire 100 rounds through a .22 LR, from a .22 Hornet, and from a .22-250 at one round per minute and check the temperature of the barrel afterward. The .22 LR might be slightly warmer than air temp. The .22 Hornet will be a bit warmer, and the .22-250 barrel may be too warm to hold onto for a long time

tgp
01-19-2009, 07:07 PM
I have a 22-6mm AI witha 1-14" twist, I fireformed 200 rounds, then worked up a very good load with 50 grain bullets that avg. around 4300f.p.s. depending on the temp. outside( a little lower or a little higher) the gun would group around 1/4" at 100 yards. that was in 1983-84, now the gun will only shoot 1/2" groups, still kill yotes, still gets shot 15-20 rounds per month at whatever. Yep it burns barrels but I figure after 20 years what the hell, I'll break down and buy a new barrel in a few years and it will be chambered for a 22 -6mm AI.( SINCE I OWN THE DIES):D

f d shuster
01-19-2009, 07:15 PM
tgp: You are absolutely correct, if only firing even several hundred rounds a year, the barrel will last a long time, and even more if the shooter/owner is not concerned about consistant sub MOA groups. It's a real eye opener when you have a "Hawkeye" borescope, and are able to watch, step-by-step as the barrel is destroyed. I gotta laugh, when someone makes an off-the-wall comment like, " my ( you fill in the blanks ) will last for 15 to 20,000 rounds". They have no idea what they are talking about.:)

.357Mag
01-19-2009, 08:21 PM
Jeremy -

Check your PMs.

Regards,
357Mag

alinwa
01-19-2009, 10:34 PM
IMO the absolute Gold Standard for easy .22's are the 22BR for light bullets and the 22X47 Lapua for heavies.

al

Ackleyredmist
01-30-2009, 03:02 PM
i'm also putting together an overbore 22. its a tossup between a 22-243ai and a 22-284. 28" broughton 5c 8 twist. i plan on throating it for 80gr berger vld's. you guys have any suggestions? barrel life really doesn't matter

alinwa
01-31-2009, 12:08 AM
I suggest that a 22X47L will beat them both at any yardage on any day under any conditions.

al

marion packett
01-31-2009, 10:42 AM
If you could push a 55 gr blitz king (bc of .271) at 4200, 10mph wind deflection and energy at 500 yds would be 22.5 inches and 656 foot lbs. Now load a 223 Inproved at a modest 3000fps with 75 amax (bc .435) wind deflection deflection will be 19.6 inches and 674 foot lbs.
To the thread respondent regarding 22br there is no load data suggesting velosities faster than 223 improved, with all due respect!

alinwa
01-31-2009, 11:48 AM
If you could push a 55 gr blitz king (bc of .271) at 4200, 10mph wind deflection and energy at 500 yds would be 22.5 inches and 656 foot lbs. Now load a 223 Inproved at a modest 3000fps with 75 amax (bc .435) wind deflection deflection will be 19.6 inches and 674 foot lbs.
To the thread respondent regarding 22br there is no load data suggesting velosities faster than 223 improved, with all due respect!



That is correct. Same can be said for the 6BR, 6X47L and the ubiquitous PPC line of cartridges. These rounds AIN'T ABOUT loading manuals.......

Now what they'll actually safely DO is stuff that leaves the manuals in the dust.

al

vicvanb
01-31-2009, 08:27 PM
It's always fun to fool around with something new but after 40+ years of fooling I've settled on the 220 Swift as burning about all the powder I want to burn in a 22 centerfire. Unless you load it to the max and shoot rapid fire barrel life should not be a problem for use as a coyote gun. If you shoot more than 100 rounds per year at coyotes you are one busy honcho--or you hunt in Texas.

Mike A
02-01-2009, 04:13 AM
I cant see any use for the 22 calibre since I started using the 204 and newer 6mm's.

Ackleyredmist
02-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Lynn, i've been using high bc bullets for all types of game for years and for smaller animals as long as you push them out of the tube around 3200 and above there isn't any problem. i've never crippled a coyote i've hit with one

marion packett
02-01-2009, 10:32 AM
My point is, that you consider fast twist so you can shot high bc heavy bullets to deliver energy at long ranges.

Ackleyredmist
02-02-2009, 12:07 PM
Lynn, i do understand where you are coming from. i shoot alot of berger vld's on all sorts of game. especially groundhogs and coyotes. if you push them at decent speeds they are amazing when they hit and completely dustroll coyotes. with either case i mentioned earlier you can push an 80gr vld at speeds of a factory 22-250(realistic speed not claimed) with a 55gr. when i hit coyotes with a 95 vld out of my 243ackley it is like they were hit with a truck. and it only pushes them at 3200. i wouldn't use bullets that did not provide ethical kills. we owe that to every animal no matter what it is

Paul Fielder
02-02-2009, 06:49 PM
It's always fun to fool around with something new but after 40+ years of fooling I've settled on the 220 Swift as burning about all the powder I want to burn in a 22 centerfire. Unless you load it to the max and shoot rapid fire barrel life should not be a problem for use as a coyote gun. If you shoot more than 100 rounds per year at coyotes you are one busy honcho--or you hunt in Texas.

...another vote for the swift!!!


pf
<><

We agree on something vic:D:D:D

Ackleyredmist
02-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Sorry guys, the swift just doesn't fit the bill for what i'm after. i gave up shooting light bullets some time ago. everything has its own place

Paul Fielder
02-03-2009, 06:28 AM
i gave up shooting light bullets some time ago. everything has its own place

I would move into the 6BR with a tight twist....there is nothing but high praise for this round.

Only heavy bullets I shoot in .22cal are in a .223. Never got into the hyper velocity wildcats.

Good Luck.

pf
<><

Ackleyredmist
02-03-2009, 08:48 AM
Paul, i already have a tight twist 243ackley so i really don't want to do another 6mm.

Paul Fielder
02-03-2009, 09:03 AM
Paul, i already have a tight twist 243ackley so i really don't want to do another 6mm.


Well amigo...you got a good problem to have. The choices are endless. I personally would pick mine around the availability of good brass (preferably Lapua) No reason to go though all that fireforming and cut corners.

Let us know what you decide. I have moved away from wildcats (other than my .280AI and I can now get Norma brass for that) I used to enjoy sitting around forming and turning necks etc, but got lazy since the kids came along and take up all extra time these days.

Figured I can really do whatever 'I want' with factory available cases ready to go. I spend more time shooting at the ranch than I do on the bench & my hobbies drifted that way. Just can't do it all.

pf
<><

chino69
02-03-2009, 09:33 AM
I think a 22-250AI is about the practical limit to powder burned vs. velocity with a 22cal. It'll push 50-55gr bullets about as fast as they need to go. Over 4200 with 50's and 4000-4100 with 55's. The load in one of mine is 50's at 4247. Past that case capacity and you start burning increasingly more powder for less and less gain in velocity.

I'll second your post; I have three different barrels chambered in .22-250 AI. It will hammer any critter out there!

Lou Baccino

.25shooter
02-03-2009, 09:57 AM
Well, considering the fact that 6-284 is badly overbore and more velosity just about cant be had from a bigger cartridge with a 6mm bullet it hardly seems to be likely that a .22-284 would give much over 22-243. Perhaps 100-200 fps with 75-80gr bullet with 10-15 gr more powder and some 25-50% loss in barrel life or so. In the real world those 100 fps will not mean anything. In Acleys book he mentions .22 Ergenboomer Loudensplitter if memory serves me and that is a 300 Winchester magnum necked down to .22 cal. For some reason that cartridge never caught much on in the gun world :D But then again tuning up a Porche 911 Turbo for power doesnt seem all that nessesary either :cool:

Ackleyredmist
02-03-2009, 11:59 AM
200fps means alot past 800yds. you do have a point and i've pretty much decided on a 22-243improved. having all the brass for it i'll ever need is in its favor plus a little extra barrel life.

alinwa
02-03-2009, 02:25 PM
Most people think the high rotation of the bullets is what makes for those exotic hits but its actually the velocity.The rotational force is negligible.
Lynn


Lynn,

While it's true that rotation doesn't show up on the big and slow VLD's it's definitely a factor on the little pills......the biggies don't pop. But until you've tried both with little bullets don't knock rotation. It's velocity AND rotation..... shoot 40's or 55's or 68's AT THE SAME VELOCITY using both twists to really see the difference. :)

al

alinwa
02-03-2009, 07:37 PM
Al
I've tried both several years ago at the request of Henry Childs.All of my old 6BR barrels that I don't give away get turned into 6mm-06 and have 8-8.7 twist rates in them.I asked Henry if the rotation helped them on the explosiveness and naturaly he gave me a test rather than a answer.
I had two barrels chambered up one with a 8.5 twist and the other with a 14 twist both shooting light bullets.
As you know knocking down coyotes isn't a complicated endeavor but when slapping them down is your goal velocity is king in my opinion.
Lynn


LOL


Yeahh, I agree. You prolly won't be blowing coyotes to chunks eh :D I'm sure you also can't hear the difference but with the little squeerells and ground dawgs I think you will!

al