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Mirage416
12-07-2008, 03:16 PM
I have an FN Mauser 98 large ring action which has CRF. It is chambered in .270 Win. I would like to build the gun into a long-range rifle capable of precision shooting.

My first possible problem arose when thinking about the CRF requiring magazine insertion of the rounds. I want to re-chamber the rifle in .280 Remington so that I could use the 180 Bergers. However, I suspect that these will not fit into the magazine when loaded long onto the lands. Since the CRF mechanism on the bolt head acts to extract the shell, I'm not sure if anything can be done to remove it and still extract the rounds.

I'm seeking any suggestions on what route I could take continuing the build properly for long-range shooting.

Thanks

John Kielly
12-07-2008, 03:37 PM
CRF doesn't require a magazine to feed. Mauser themselves made a single shot action way back. It had a solid bottom which had a slight inclining ramp cut along where the magazine would normally fit. See Frank de Hass's book on bolt action rifles.

You could dispense with the magazine entirely & fill in the cutout in the stock, finishing it with a ramped feeder similar to Mauser's original design.

Mirage416
12-07-2008, 04:57 PM
If you are familiar with this action, and say that it is possible to feed without the magazine, then I am confused.

There is the rim catch on the right side, which rotates on the exterior of the bolt. The rim catch effectively blocks a portion of the bolt face if viewed from the front. The round has to slide up from underneath in order for the rim catch to slide into the rim groove. If I put a round into the chamber and close the bolt, the bolt will not rotate or close, since the rim catch will not be over the cartridge base, but butting against it. Is there something that I am missing here?

Butch Lambert
12-07-2008, 04:59 PM
You can shoot it single shot with a little mod of the extractor to allow it to slide over the rim.
Butch

Mirage416
12-07-2008, 05:10 PM
You can shoot it single shot with a little mod of the extractor to allow it to slide over the rim.
Butch

Can you explain any more about this?

I can see where a spring loaded extractor will snap over the rim. But this extractor does not move outward any, it only rotates. What I'm getting at is, if you ground it open so that it would not block the bolt face, then it would no longer extract either.

Butch Lambert
12-07-2008, 05:20 PM
Mirage,
You might pose that question on www.accuratereloading forum. Go to the gunsmithing forum and pose the question. It has been done many times. If you wish I will ask and get back to you. If Jim Kobe, Dennis Sorensen, or Bill Leeper see this I am sure they can help you.
Butch

Butch Lambert
12-07-2008, 05:25 PM
Here is the link http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9411043
Butch

Mirage416
12-07-2008, 05:57 PM
Thank you for starting a thread there.

Butch Lambert
12-07-2008, 08:57 PM
Looks like you are getting a little response over there.
Butch

Butch Lambert
12-08-2008, 11:02 PM
Mirage 416,
Did you get the answers or can I do more digging for you?
Butch

Mirage416
12-09-2008, 08:08 PM
I have been reading the thread, and noticed the last post about a MK X extractor. I can't seem to turn anything up in a search, though. I imagine my best bet is probably to find one of those extractors, so it will be cut just right and ready to go.

Any guesses on who might have one of those extractors available?

Thanks again for your help on this Butch.

brian roberts
12-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Precise Metalsmithing, in Washington State; you'll have to do some digging, though, I don't have a current #. Good quality at a fair price, just what you need.

geneinnc
12-10-2008, 09:31 PM
Mirage,
You might pose that question on www.accuratereloading forum. Go to the gunsmithing forum and pose the question. It has been done many times. If you wish I will ask and get back to you. If Jim Kobe, Dennis Sorensen, or Bill Leeper see this I am sure they can help you.
Butch

Butch, doesn't the Mauser feed like the Pre64 Win actions? My hunting rifle is a Win Classic SS 7remmag. It has the drop down plate, not a magazine. However, Winchester plainly states to insert the round completely into the magazine plate so the case is picked up by the controlled feed every time.

When I first started deer hunting, I asked AC Burgess what to get, no restrictions. He said either the Sendero or the Win, and was having more luck with the Win actions. He basically bedded & floated, set the headspace, jewelled the action, lightened the trigger to 3.5 and installed a muzzle break.
He also lapped & fitted the Leupold 6 x 18.

After I found the pet handload, it shoots one hole at 100, and holds sub moa to 400 yards, UNLESS I forget to feed it through the mag, and then it goes PLUS moa at 100.

If he could put in a hinged floor plate, to insure the controlled feed funtion worked, do you think he would have a nice solid action?

As you can see, I know very little about Mausers. I do have a rusted up Mauser action that can easily be saved. Whats you thought on building a centerfire competition rifle on it? I sure would hate to go to that trouble & expense and have a rifle that won't shoot as well as my hunting rifle!

Mirage416
12-10-2008, 10:01 PM
...it shoots one hole at 100, and holds sub moa to 400 yards, UNLESS I forget to feed it through the mag, and then it goes PLUS moa at 100.

What is happening when you forget to feed it through the mag that makes accuracy decrease?

I would have posted some close-up photos, but my digital camera sensor seems to have bit the dust.

Here is the best way to describe the bolt face and extractor. Picture a shell holder, with one side of the lip opened up. This means without modification, the round will not go in from the front, only the side.

John Kielly
12-11-2008, 01:50 AM
This means without modification, the round will not go in from the front, only the side.
That's the bottom when the bolt's coming forward, isn't it?

Here in Australia, we single shotted hundreds of Mausers & M17s for TR shooting (Palma) & all that was needed to feed behind the extractor was a replica of the original Mauser single shot ramp - much the same as the Brownell ramp shown on the other web site. If you don't provide a slope, either by feeding off a magazine or a ramp, then you'll drive the round into the top of the chamber.

geneinnc
12-11-2008, 05:43 AM
What is happening when you forget to feed it through the mag that makes accuracy decrease?

I would have posted some close-up photos, but my digital camera sensor seems to have bit the dust.

Here is the best way to describe the bolt face and extractor. Picture a shell holder, with one side of the lip opened up. This means without modification, the round will not go in from the front, only the side.

You summed it up much better than I did. Accuracy does decrease if the round is not picked up by the bolt face.

Another senior moment on this end:rolleyes:

Stephen B Moore
12-21-2008, 11:25 AM
Yes, the extractor can be modified to "jump" the rim. Some very judicious grinding/stoning is required. It is not a project for the heavy handed or fumble fisted though. Should you decide to give it a try, do it on a spare. The difference of working or becoming trash is sort of like the fine line separating rustic from raunchy. Trial and error doesn't work here. Lots of trial and patience does.

If you want a real winter project, think 6.5 JAP Ariska!!

Happy Holidays!!

Steve Moore

brian roberts
12-22-2008, 05:17 PM
telling you is this: Imagine a solid-bottom, single-shot action, it still posesses the Mauser extractor, & when you lay a loaded cartridge in the action, as you begin to push the bolt forward, the cartridge passes over some machinings in the receiver bottom. As the cartridge moves forward, the head(or base)moves DOWN into a depression first, allowing the extractor to pass over it, & cause the face of the bolt to push it forward, at the same time the bullet is tipped up slightly, to enter the rear of the chamber. Then, still slowly moving forward, the cartridge starts to move up from this depression, sliding UNDER the extractor, feeding into the chamber. If you happen, in your travels, to come across a 40XB Remington single-shot, ask to inspect it, & open the bolt & gaze straight down, you'll see how this depression is milled in the receiver, like a rounded-off, elongated diamond shape that, as it progresses from the rear forward goes down, then up, & this is how the single-shot Mauser (and Remington) feeds without the magazine. (a little Lalo Schifrin here) "DOOdle-lee-DOO....Your assignment, 416, should you decide to accept it, is to hunt down the wily Mauser or Remington single-shot receiver; If you are captured during this endeavor, BENCHREST CENTRAL will deny any knowledge of your identity......dant-dant-dant-DA-DAAAHHHHH....:cool:"

Larry Elliott
12-24-2008, 05:35 PM
Back when Mausers of various sorts were widely used for building custom sporting rifles most gunsmiths who built those rifles modified the extractors to allow single loading. The '03 Springfield which is basically a Mauser 98 with a few mods used a magazine cutoff so that the rifle could be single loaded. Its extractor had to snap over the rim of a single loaded round. It's not rocket science.

dirtyjim
12-24-2008, 07:36 PM
you can also push in with your thumb on the side of the extractor while your closing the bolt & it will spring the front out enough to pop over the rim.
i'm going to build a few long range rifles on p-h mauser target actions in the future.
the bottom action is a m84 single shot , midle is a m85 sniper rifle receiver & top is a m86 clip fed target rifle receiver.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/sporter%20parts/parkerhalereceivers.jpg

Butch Lambert
12-25-2008, 09:10 AM
dirtyjim,
Tell me about these receivers and are they available?
Butch

dirtyjim
12-25-2008, 05:43 PM
butch,
i don't think these actions are availible from any of the suppliers now but they do pop up occasionally on the auctions sites. numrich had them before they stoped selling receivers & any ffl items, i don't know what they did with the ones they had in inventory. you may try contacting old western scrounger, the same guy who owns them owns gibbs rifle co.& he bought out all of p-h's inventory & tooling. i got the m85 from him, i don't know if he has any left.

these receivers do not have the inner c-ring like a military action & do not have the bolt guide slot broached into the top of the action so you have to remove the guide rib from the bolt or broach it into the action.
the repeaters used special bottom metal that took m14 mags, i've never seen it for sale so i'll have to make my own. other than that they are just commercial mauser actions with a flat top. if i would have known numrich was going to stop selling them i would have bought a bunch of them

Butch Lambert
12-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the information. I fool with the Mausers a little and they look interesting.
Butch

John Kielly
12-25-2008, 07:11 PM
dirtyjim,

That lower action looks like the single shot action that Parker Hale sold for Palma style shooting not that long before they went out of business.

They wouldn't have Spanish identification on them, would they?

John

dirtyjim
12-26-2008, 07:15 PM
john,
the bottom action is one of their single target actions. they also made a more traditional style single shot mauser action for a short time. there are no spanish markings on them, only the ser.# & parker-hale birmingham england.

butch,
i also have a m85 bare casting that i would let go if your interested.
it needs the barrel threads cut, action holes drilled & tapped, trigger pin hole drilled, top finish milled & the center reamed a little for the bolt, its a few thousands undersize right now. the lug raceways are already to size.

Ken Lemas
12-26-2008, 07:47 PM
I purchased a receiver like the bottom one from Sarco several years, it was about 90% finished and needs heat treating does anyone know the type of steel they are made of 1020....1040 or ??.

dirtyjim, do you have any pictures of the bolt stop ejector setup it doesn't look like a standard 98 will fit and I need one for mine.

Ken

Butch Lambert
12-26-2008, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the offer. I have 2 Mauser projects going now, a Pierce receivered rifle going, and another in the wings. I have a 10/XX unfinished receiver from Aleaddict that also needs attention.
dirtyjim, thanks again and if I can help you, let me know.
Butch

dirtyjim
12-27-2008, 07:13 AM
ken,
the bolt stop is from a parker hale midland 2100 & the screw that attatches it is a standard size machine screw. numrich has the bare housings for around $12 , they do not have any of the other parts. you can modify a military ejector to fit. the bolt stop works like a sako or husky hva but i haven't been able to find one to try out so i'm going to make my own.

i'm not sure what type of steel they were made of but i've had two of them rc tested & they both came out right above 40rc. i still have to get the third one tested to make sure it doesn't need heat treated.

butch,
i have around 10 projects going on & at least that many planned.
this one (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/220swift.jpg) is almost done. its a 220 swift built on a columbian fn action. the stock is an old fajen beavertail & it has a waever k6 with a litschert 12x booster. all i have left is to ream the chamber & blue it. i was going for a 50's style benchrest look with it

Butch Lambert
12-27-2008, 08:59 AM
Looks nice dirtyjim! A distance future project is a shortened mauser receiver and it will be a 250-3000.
Butch

John Kielly
12-27-2008, 03:49 PM
A distance future project is a shortened mauser receiver and it will be a 250-3000.
Damn! I hate being reminded.

I always wanted to shorten a P14 to shoot .44 magnum like one I saw in a magazine years ago.

John

Big Al
12-28-2008, 04:49 PM
Looks nice dirtyjim! A distance future project is a shortened mauser receiver and it will be a 250-3000.
Butch



Like the one in ROY DUNLAPS book GUNSMITHING? I'll take a half dozen my self. I saw the jig ROY made to do the work at his shop and should of tried to talk him out of it when I had the chance. That man sure had a lot of jigs he made for his own work and all of it looked vary nice.