View Full Version : Eley, Red Box, Pistol, Calfee

11-07-2008, 05:00 PM
My friends:

Just came from the range testing SPEC 8.........it's sold....

MY dear friends, before I proceed, I have absolutely nothing for sale on this fine forum of my friend Wilbur's...........nothing, for as long as I live...

I'm booked for life......which ain't long......

I love rimfire accuracy.....I have no other reason for posting.....I love to share with you.......

May I proceed?

Your friend, Bill Calfee

Kent Owens
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
Bill, by all means proceed. I'm interested in reading what you have to say, and I'm sure a lot of other folks are as well. Make it interesting!

11-08-2008, 12:25 AM
It usually is interesting... but, please, can you hold back on repeating the same sentences over and over, as if we forgot we just read it 3 seconds earlier? Makes it a lot easier to hold that interest. :D

11-08-2008, 06:58 AM
My friends:

I'm headed to the range to retest SPEC 8........before I say what I was going to about the new Tenex Pistol, I want to make sure I didn't get fooled in some way........

If I see the same thing, here in a few minutes, as I did yesterday, I'll be glad to write about it....fair enough..

Your friend, Bill Calfee

PS Friend Shorty: I'll do my best but if you ever read any of my Precision Shooting writings it is obvious I ain't no writer....bc

11-08-2008, 02:55 PM
I read that post too....I must be nuts:confused:

11-08-2008, 03:30 PM
My friends:

Been an interesting day......

I've put in a call to the gentleman in New York who will be SPEC 8's new owner.........I want to suggest he purchase some of the ammo I tested today.....whether he does or not is his business.......I'm just suggesting it to him....

As soon as I hear from him, and I'm sure he gets some, if he want it, I'll report on this days tests.....

Your friend, Bill Calfee

11-08-2008, 07:40 PM
Mr. Calfee, Tape a penny on your phonograph arm so the needle will play the rest of the "Red Box Eley" song It starts to play but but then hangs up and plays the same track over and over! That penny on the arm will take care of your problem..............;):D;) At least it worked on mine years ago;)

Guy Pike
11-09-2008, 06:29 AM
The penny trick did work well enough but the problem was actually the record not the playing equipment! Good analogy though. My best, Guy

11-09-2008, 11:49 AM
Yes......... Things are really getting desperate. I just read the whole thread. Now I'm going into my bedroom and pound my head against the wall while repeating..."you knew better"..."you knew better"..."you knew better".

J Pappas
11-09-2008, 03:30 PM
Bill, Thanks for sharing.

11-09-2008, 04:24 PM

Bobby T.
11-09-2008, 04:54 PM
Bill does touch on the subject on the General Discussion Board under his Stopped Muzzle. It's the last post.


Fred J
11-10-2008, 09:37 AM
It's no secret, that Quality Pistol ammo, whether it be Eley , or Lapua will preform well in match grade barrels. The problem is that the dealers don't handle it. I've tried several times to order in quanity, only to be told they are out of staock.

11-10-2008, 02:43 PM
The " Eley Pistol" is the round nose bullet ( The one that Bill was trying to get Eley to reintroduce), rather than the EPS bullet.

11-10-2008, 03:57 PM
Freind Steve:

I quote from you my friend:

steve The "Eley Pistol" is the round nose bullet ( The one that Bill was trying to get Eley to reintroduce), rather than the EPS bullet.

Friend Steve: I just came from the range testing SPEC 8, using the Eley Tenex Pistol.....you are correct, it is my "round nose bullet"....

Steve, I'm just thinking out loud: Has Eley came full circle?

Your friend, Bill Calfee

11-10-2008, 04:04 PM
My guess is that you convinced them to use it because you told them that you would promote it like snake oil.

11-10-2008, 07:22 PM
You may not have seen it carried anywhere, but it has never gone away. They never stopped producing rounds with that round nose bullet, just under a different name, as you've now seen. I imagine the round with the EPS bullet is just more popular, that's all.
Has Eley came full circle?

11-11-2008, 11:03 AM
Why Mr. Calfee continues to promote the round nosed bullet is beyond me.

Isn't this the same bullet design that kept Eley ammunition mediocre (at best!) all throughout the 80's and early 90's??!??

I am thankful his influence is limited regarding Eley - the EPS flat nosed bullet was (and is, in my opinion) one of the best advances in my lifetime.


GS Arizona
11-11-2008, 07:19 PM
Friend Kevin, I'm just an over-educated big city feller with finished floors and lace-up shoes, but I agree with you as to the bullet design. I'd say your shooting record speaks louder than a scratched record.


11-12-2008, 04:51 PM
Why Mr. Calfee continues to promote the round nosed bullet is beyond me.

Isn't this the same bullet design that kept Eley ammunition mediocre (at best!) all throughout the 80's and early 90's??!??

I am thankful his influence is limited regarding Eley - the EPS flat nosed bullet was (and is, in my opinion) one of the best advances in my lifetime.


The bullet tip is one of several changes made to their slugs over the last few years or the whole ammo package for that matter.How do we put a value on the individual changes? I mean this seriously, I've asked myself.

11-13-2008, 07:57 AM
Friend Kevin:

You and my good friend Tarl Kempley put on quite a show at Perry this year with those killer 6387's. Congratulations my friend.

Kevin, When Eley first came out with their EPS, (flat nose) bullet, they were absolutely better than the product they had produced in the years before, but not because of the (flat nose) bullet, their got real serious with their quality.

My friend, I went to work and got Eley to produce the old round nose bullet, not because it had a round nose, but because that bullet had the proper length driving bands and a good, deep front shoulder to carry wax the entire legnth of the bore and also to clean the bore of combustion bi-products each shot.

Mike Mullins set the ARA world record right off with them......and others were having tremendous success too....

The engineers at Eley then incorportated the good driving bands and deep front shoulder to the old EPS (flat nose) bullet, exactly like the good round nose design.....

This good bullet that now carries wax properly with the good driving bands is the current "killer" flat nose bullet that dominates rimfire shooting today.

Now my friend, Bill Calfee is a funny guy. I ain't never satisfied. I have been doing some experimenting and have discovered some very interesting possibilities.......

Kevin, if you don't mind, I think I'll go ahead and try to improve the EPS Flat Nose bullet, again.

Congratulations again Kevin on that awesome performance at Perry.

Your friend, Bill Calfee

11-13-2008, 11:08 AM

Thanks for the reply!

This year has really been a blessing. I have known Tarl, Reya and their parents from their participation at the Nationals the past few years - they are incredible people. Tarl and Reya are world class shooters, and world class people. I was honored to share the podium with him this year.

Only my opinion here - the initial runs of EPS were outstanding, I had a few cases of a fast lot of that initial run (UGU4297 @ 1075) in the clear boxes with the red inserts. It was just great ammunition. And I would agree, it could have been atributed to the overall quality, not just the bullet redesign.

I think the EPS flat nosed bullet was changed prior to the 2006 season - the lot I used at the Nationals this year was 1006-01159 (#1 machine stuff). I don't think for me personally, that the "new" flat nosed bullet was better than my best lot of the older stuff, but from what I have heard it was generally better across ALL lots.

I tested the round nosed "Semi auto" Tenex extensively prior to the 2005 season and was generally disappointed. None of the (12) lots I tested were even close to what I had come to expect from the flat nosed bullet (but again, that's just my experience, with a fairly small statistical sample).

I had tested countless lots of Tenex throughout the 80's, and purchased a bunch of it - from Tenex, to Tenex Lite and BR Gold. For most of that time period, I settled mainly on Lapua Dominator (then Midas). It was hard to find decent Eley during that time period - which is probably one of the reasons EPS was so memorable when it finally arrived. If you can improve on the bullet design, I think it would be a great thing!

I have to admit that I have been skeptical of a few of your ideas (but would preface this comment by saying I have only a small fraction of your experience, track record or knowledge!). Having chambered my share of rimfire barrels, I could never swallow the whole "6 o'clock offset chamber" idea - or even how to force a reamer to cut one! Additionally, after slugging a few of my best (and worst) barrels, I still would never have been able to tell you which one was best based on this test alone - the only way I know to truly verify performance, is to finish it and shoot it.

You have certainly forced me (and many others I would guess) to question my beliefs, and to look at things differently. I do look forward to your posts, and wish you the very best in the coming year.

Thank you for your kind words, and for all you have done for the sport. It is a pleasure to talk to you, and thanks again for the reply!


11-13-2008, 11:28 AM
Class act....keep up the good shooting Kevin.


11-13-2008, 04:56 PM
Now that's what an intelligent "discussion" is supposed to sound like. People can agree to disagree.

11-13-2008, 09:07 PM
The round nose is not dead - I've been having good luck this past year with Lapua X-act and Midas with a Benchmark barrel.
Kevin - Had a lot of fun coaching you at Perry!

11-14-2008, 05:57 AM

That's how AWESOME of a coach you are..............I thought I was coaching YOU the whole time!?!

I hope you are well, it was an absolute pleasure to shoot next to you this summer!

God bless,