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View Full Version : Savage 12f and Nightforce BR Woes



flyjets
10-30-2008, 09:02 PM
Hi All

1st time Poster with a problem and could use some help.

My Savage 12F has a Night-force Bench-rest 12*42 mounted with NF Ultra lite rings and NF Bases.

Using a Bore Collimator to align her and Laser she is way off to the Left in Windage adjustment. In reality at the Range she is off to the left of Center by 24MOA. The NF BR scope only allows 20 MOA each side of Center.

Took the Rifle to Several Gun shops and 1 Gunsmith. Replaced the Rings no difference. Gunsmith thinks the Receiver might be drilled incorrectly.

With the small amount the 42BR has for adjustment I can't align the Scope to the Bore.

OK but here is the part that also gets me. All my rifles I can put a Laser in at the Muzzle and the scopes are always very close to the Laser. But not the Savage 12F when it's aligned at the Range the Laser is high and left it's got me puzzled as well as many others.

If you can help I am all ears.

Ian

Stryker60
10-30-2008, 09:40 PM
The first 2 options that come to mind:

1. Burris Posi-align rings

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=26144

2. Send it back to Savage.

tiny68
10-30-2008, 09:54 PM
This problem is not unique to Savage and all of the other mass produced rifles suffer from this. At least I have had the same problem with Remmy, Winny, and a Ruger over the years. Take option one and buy the inserts to get you exactly back inline. www.opticsplanet.com had the best price on the Burris Signature Zee Rings and offset inserts when I got some recently. Might try them.

Luck, tiny

Chisolm
10-30-2008, 10:33 PM
Unless you have already tried another scope I wouldn't rule out the scope either as the problem.

James

flyjets
10-31-2008, 12:36 AM
There is another Nightforce on the way as it looks like either the scope is bad or reciever Holes are drilled incorrect.

I want to stay with the Nighforce rings or Ken Ferrell rings.

To be sure before I send the Rifle back to Savage I am going to try a Ken Ferrell single piece Base.

One would think you shouldn't have this many problems with this level of equipment.

Ian

milanuk
10-31-2008, 01:23 AM
You are making this a way bigger problem than it needs to be.

Get the Burris rings mentioned above. Problems solved.

Having worked with one or two of these rifles... I don't think it's so much a function of broken scopes or off-center scope base holes, as someone getting a little too happy with the barrel-nut wrench at the end of the line, causing things to cock a little. Maybe the barrel-straightener guy took the day off?

These rings are on the gun I used at the last two FCNC, and that I'm taking to FCWC in England next year. Guess what? I have inserts rotated around to get things lined up too. It works. Some barrels need it, some don't.

YMMV,

Monte

xphunter
10-31-2008, 08:49 AM
If you have a pic base get the Signature Zee Rings and it will solve your problem.

Rustystud
10-31-2008, 08:50 AM
If the Ken Farrell bases and rings don't cue the left alignment problems and you have experimented with another scope without significant correction.

Send it back to Savage, period, they need to know about the problem and make the corrections. I suggest you call them and ask for
"Joe DeGrande". He will get your problem fixed and asap. Savage service is second to none.

In days of the past we used Redfield and Lepould bases on factory guns these bases had a set of screws to adjust for winadage misalignment problems. Today with CNC machining we have moved away from the adjustable bases and from time to time we wish we had the old technology back.

When selecting rings and bases get the best you can. The heavy steel tactical types are far superior to hunting rings and bases when using heavy tactical or target scopes.

I would recomend the type that are machined from a solid billot of steel vs comprtessed pot metal.

Rustystud

flyjets
10-31-2008, 10:21 AM
Thanks Guys

I have another one Piece Base on the way from Ken Ferrell made for this 12FRifle.

If that doesn't fix the problem and I am pretty sure it won't Savage will have to check the Barrel alignment and the receiver holes. That should cover everything.

Rustystud I will call Joe DeGrande if it leads to the Rifle.

Frustrating when you put something together that you thought would be a good combination.

The Good news is the Rifle shoots very tight groups even with Factory Ammo Blacks Hills Gold 6.5 284Norma. Seems at 100 yards best group was .25" worst was 1"

Ian

milanuk
10-31-2008, 10:27 AM
While in principle, I agree with Nat about the scope bases and rings... and truth be told, I wish someone else made rings *like* the Burris Signature rings, but a bit more sturdy/better design. But in reality... these are what we have to work with, and they do work fairly well. The reasons I doubt they will find much in the way of scope base hole issues is that I have had the same problem, and generally it goes away (or shifts) when I replace the barrel.

YMMV,

Monte

davemacd
11-01-2008, 08:13 AM
I had the same problem with my Remington 700 PSS. I originally had the Farrell base but recently switched to EGW because I needed a longer one. In any case the problem was solved by using Burris Signature rings using the inserts.

jnclement
11-05-2008, 11:45 AM
I had that problem once, and turned one of the rings around and fixed it. But now I just use Signature Zee rings.

flyjets
11-05-2008, 09:34 PM
Rustystud

Thanks for giving me a contact at Savage Joe DeGrande he is truly a 1st class fellow.

Ian

JCummings
11-06-2008, 09:06 AM
I want to second the comment about Joe DeGrande.
I dealt with him on a problem with a mismarked Savage barrel (marked 9" but was 12'' twist). Mr. DeGrande is a true gentleman. He represents Savage very well where he works as Director of Customer Relations. If you have a legitimate problem with a Savage product contact Mr. DeGrande. He will make it right.

I also should report that I just finished building an Fclass rifle from a Savage Target action, Shilen barrel, and Sharp Shooter Supply stock with a Nightforce12-42 BR scope. I had no problem whatsoever zeroing the scope. The rifle shot .5 inch groups at 100 yards during barrel break in with no load development.

OldSwede
11-06-2008, 07:22 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Burris Signature rings, unless:

1. You really miss the fun of lapping your ring set, or
2. You enjoy ring marks on your $1000.00 USD scope.

They are solid steel, Made in USA. You will NOT need three screws per side to hold your scope unless you just think they look cool. Install per the instructions, and they will hold. Buy a set of the offset inserts. Read the instructions. Problem solved.

flyjets
11-08-2008, 09:28 AM
To Cool the speculation on what is going on here I offer you this.

The Rings and Bases are perfectly straight that I have from Nightforce.

There is however a problem in my Barrel that is being corrected by Savage.

Savage appears to be a Top Notch Company is is handling my 12F at this time.

Thanks All
Ian

greg
11-08-2008, 12:06 PM
Hi All

1st time Poster with a problem and could use some help.

My Savage 12F has a Night-force Bench-rest 12*42 mounted with NF Ultra lite rings and NF Bases.

Using a Bore Collimator to align her and Laser she is way off to the Left in Windage adjustment. In reality at the Range she is off to the left of Center by 24MOA. The NF BR scope only allows 20 MOA each side of Center.

Took the Rifle to Several Gun shops and 1 Gunsmith. Replaced the Rings no difference. Gunsmith thinks the Receiver might be drilled incorrectly.

With the small amount the 42BR has for adjustment I can't align the Scope to the Bore.

OK but here is the part that also gets me. All my rifles I can put a Laser in at the Muzzle and the scopes are always very close to the Laser. But not the Savage 12F when it's aligned at the Range the Laser is high and left it's got me puzzled as well as many others.

If you can help I am all ears.

Ian

may have ring mounting holes not drilled inline with the action center.

Bob Raymond
11-08-2008, 07:54 PM
Mr. Degrande is definitely a first class gent, had dealings with him regarding my 6.5. Service from Savage even being in Canada is second to none.

BTW flyjets is your 12 f a 6 BR or 6.5x284?

flyjets
11-09-2008, 09:15 AM
I went with the 6.5 * 284 Norma for 600 to 1000 yard shooting.

Less then 600 my understanding was the 6mm was a better choice.

Ian

chino69
01-01-2009, 09:39 AM
If you have a pic base get the Signature Zee Rings and it will solve your problem.

I'll third the vote for the Burris Signature Zee rings. For the 1" rings, Burris offers inserts with varying degrees of offset to compensate for the exact problem you are describing. I don't believe they have started doing the same for their 30mm rings, but they should.

The other advantage to using the Burris rings with the offset inserts is the ability to keep your scope mechanically centered without resorting to using your el. or windage dials.

Lou Baccino
Chino69

f d shuster
01-01-2009, 10:54 AM
Ditto to what Lou and everyone else said about the Burris Signature: the only kind of rings I will buy now ( for the past 6 yrs). When I mount a new scope, I'll start with the wind. & elev. adjustments centered, and basically sight-in using the off-set ring inserts. Really meant a lot with my Zeiss 6.5-20x 50mm that only has 30 moa of windage available, and as said, previously there are no ring marks on any of my scopes that are mounted with the Signatures. Too many positive results to not use them.