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Vibe
09-18-2008, 12:28 AM
Well since we cannot post questions to your thread without them being removed.



Anyway, when I roughed out this blank, I decided to leave the muzzle device section, at the muzzle, long........this way I could test it and cut it back if necessary.....to try to stop the muzzle...

After testing this sporter, which I left the enlarged muzzle long....I wound up cutting the face of the muzzle device back a little at a time, re-testing, using my "water-in-the-bore" method, cutting some more, more testing and what I wound up with, was a barrel configuration EXACTLY THE SAME as the first of my sporters I did for my good friend Harry Deneen, back in 1999......I mean exactly the same!

My friends, so much to discuss, so much.....

I can make a barrel, with the muzzle devcie as part of the barrel, not adjustable, that can stop the muzzle! Oh God yes we can my dear friends.

Your friend, Bill Calfee
Am I correct in thinking that there is a whole lot less than 8 oz. of barrel beyond the muzzle in this configuration?

And am I correct in thinking that you removed MUCH less than 1/2 oz at a time in approaching this length?

When I suggested that you try this method (what was it? Close to a year ago) you implied that it simply would not work, in your opinion the barrel could not be backbored to bring the node to the muzzle.

I went back and tried to search the past 500 posts of yours and mine and could not find it. Probably means it was in one of the removed threads.

But I was reminded of a few other things.

What ever became of the discussions between you and Dieter Anschutz on the design of a new Annie action?

What ever became of the discussion on the Dan Lilja tight bore, 16 twist, taper lapped 4-groove barrel development?

Jetmugg
09-18-2008, 06:35 AM
Vibe:

You are correct about the earlier proposal for a back-bored muzzle (i.e. an integrated "tuner" at the end of the barrel). I also went looking for the original thread but couldn't find it. I believe it must have been deleted.

SteveM.

Fred J
09-18-2008, 09:41 AM
I would think, you could only back bore to the tightest spot in the bore or you would lose accuracy. Looks like a new project for the barrel manufactures, produce a barrel where the tight spot is around 8 ounces back.

HovisKM
09-18-2008, 10:07 AM
Fred,
I have a question for you and anyone else that may really know. If a manufacture does this sporter taper ID so that there is a muzzle that can be bored back AND he produces this with a taper lapped bore or a bore that is small so that it can be tapered lapped. Would this work? I was wondering also, would the excess metal (counter bore) actually create a tight spot at the muzzle?

Hovis

Fred J
09-18-2008, 10:23 AM
Hovis:
Need to ask the barrel manufactures. They're the ones that take the heat if a barrel doesn't shoot up to the shooters expectations.

Vibe
09-18-2008, 12:39 PM
I think when Calfee said this he was referring to a barrel like a Benchmark reverse taper sporter with an integrated fixed tuner at the muzzle and not a standard barrel that was back bored to create a tuner. Haven't the rimfire shooters had success with reverse tapered, integrated tuner sporter barrels?
Did I miss something? Is there some other way to have integral steel hanging out past the muzzle (to make a "tuner")without back boring it from the original blank? If there is, I'd like to hear about the method. If not, I'm confused as to the intent of the post.

Dennis Sorensen
09-20-2008, 08:22 PM
Wilbur's rule... Bill's thread is for Bill only to post on ... but more threads need pictures... especially Bill's.


http://www3.telus.net/drswebspace/Forum%20temporary%20pics/needPics.gif

.

Vibe
09-21-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm afraid that Mr J Pappas is correct. Without some way to get input from Bill or more pictures like Mr Sorensen noted, it's going to be very difficult to iron out the details of what's actually being done.

J Pappas
09-21-2008, 01:03 PM
Vibe ,if you went to the rimfire forum and ask someone to post a picture of the barrel on one of Bills sporters you would have your answer.

Fred J
09-21-2008, 02:17 PM
How ever posts a picture of the Calfee Barrel as he described it, will most likely be assessed a fee for using his barrel profile as a model. By the way, what are barrel modeling fees now?

Vibe
09-21-2008, 04:02 PM
I suppose I will have to solicit for a PM or E-mail containing pictures then. Thanks

Vibe
09-21-2008, 04:12 PM
Vibe ,if you went to the rimfire forum and ask someone to post a picture of the barrel on one of Bills sporters you would have your answer.
Yes. That would answer the question of what it is exactly, but not why Bill said it wouldn't work a year ago. :D

J Pappas
09-21-2008, 05:13 PM
I'm sorry Vibe, Fred is right. I forgot about that. There may be a fee involved to see the barrel in question. A while back , Bill wanted other gunsmiths to pay him a fee whenever they used that barrel profile.

Peter Armstrong
09-21-2008, 05:16 PM
Vibe,

Its not rocket science. It looks like a 1.2 barrel with the ends left at 1.2 and the middle turned down to something like .75. Id say its lapped so the tight spot is back so many inches from the muzzle end and then counter bored back to the tight spot.

The real black art part is knowing just how much metal to remove and getting it just right. Going by what he has said Id say not all the sporter barrels worked out and it would be very time consuming and costly doing it this way, but it does seem to work.

Given there is demand and if it was an easy thing to do and profitable he wouldnt have stopped doing sporters.

Peter

J Pappas
09-21-2008, 05:22 PM
Hey Peter, don't get you're knickers in a knot. Vibe just ask a simple question. Sorry Peter, I couldn't help it.

Peter Armstrong
09-21-2008, 05:55 PM
James,

No problem, Im going commando today, no knickers.

But I might get a little stressed if I cant get one of your noodle things at some point.
How much do they weigh??

Peter

Vibe
09-22-2008, 09:59 AM
Vibe,

Its not rocket science. It looks like a 1.2 barrel with the ends left at 1.2 and the middle turned down to something like .75. Id say its lapped so the tight spot is back so many inches from the muzzle end and then counter bored back to the tight spot.

The real black art part is knowing just how much metal to remove and getting it just right. Going by what he has said Id say not all the sporter barrels worked out and it would be very time consuming and costly doing it this way, but it does seem to work.

Given there is demand and if it was an easy thing to do and profitable he wouldnt have stopped doing sporters.

Peter
LOL. Well the math part of it WOULD be close to rocket science. I wasn't intending to attempt to directly copy one, just looking for visual confirmation of it being a backbored blank, making a truly integral tuner, and not an add on tube weight. But this does raise the question of what the tuner section ID is. :D

Hmmmm. Wonder if one could backbore a fluted profile to the tight spot.....:D