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View Full Version : Real big ups problem !!



Im_leary
09-15-2008, 03:26 PM
I have just spent several very frustrating hours with my UPS shipping clerk and a very very patronizing and condescending UPS customer service associate, who I spoke to at their 1-800-742-5877 telephone number. The problem is, to be concise, UPS will no longer accept gun parts (any gun part... stock, barrel, screws, pins, whatever) from an "unlicensed individual" to be shipped to another "unlicensed individual". That's right... you read that correctly: if you do not have an FFL, you may neither ship OR RECEIVE gun parts via UPS (according to the supervisory management at the UPS office in Sunbury, PA and UPS Customer Service). Also note that this is a "very recent" policy change, according to the shipping clerk.

No guys... this is not a misunderstanding... I asked all of these people to repeat this several times. As a matter of fact, I was so incredulous, and completely exasperated, I asked the customer service representative to repeat it many times: Boiled down to one sentence, I was told, "... individuals cannot ship or receive gun parts through UPS".

Yes, I am well aware of the fact that UPS's own firearms policy makes (or should I say once made) a clear distinction between "firearms" and "parts". According to the customer service person, however, there is no longer any distinction whatsoever. You may read the actual UPS policy here: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearms+parts To me (I am not a lawyer) bullet item #2 seems to be quite clear. Parts may be shipped as long as there is complete compliance with federal, state, and local laws. I seem to have a minority opinion on how the UPS policy is to be interpreted.


Guys... we have a big problem here.

Larry Elliott
09-15-2008, 04:12 PM
This will likely cause some problems for companies like Brownell's, Midway, Midsouth Shooters Supply, and others that sell "gun parts", and those of us who order from them. I presume that this will include things like triggers, sling swivels, springs, reloading components, and lots of other stuff like that. I can see that this will deliver a lot of business to the post office and Fedex unless they adopt similar policies which I certainly hope they don't.

On the other hand most of the people at UPS and other places wouldn't know a gun part from a lug nut, so things could be shipped as "machine parts" which is certainly the truth - except for stocks. Except for receivers and suppressors gun parts aren't regulated that I know of, except for state regs in "open minded" states like the People's Republiks of Kalifornia, NY, Mass, NJ, etc.

Sounds like a silly knee jerk response to the theft of guns/gun parts by their employees. I have a hard time understanding how having an FFL on both ends would cut employee theft though.

Cheechako
09-15-2008, 04:16 PM
IM

I read the regs the same way that you do. Parts are OK to send to individuals.

All UPS offices and stores are not the same. Some interpret their own regs as they want to. The USPS and FedEx are no different.

There is one big difference. UPS and FedEx are private shippers and they can make the rules as they want to. Not much we can do about it except use another carrier. USPS is different. As a public agency they have to obey their regs even if it means sitting on the clerk or Postmaster until they give in.

Here in beautiful downtown Linden AZ I have NEVER had a problem in shipping anything gun or ammo related as long as I follow the laws and regulations.

What I would do is simply label the contents as "parts" and if the clerk wants to know more tell him it's none of his business. Or, set up your own UPS account, on line, print your own labels, and call the brown truck to pick it up. I've never had a driver even look at a box label.

JMHO

Ray

cv73
09-15-2008, 04:27 PM
i just sent out a gun today with no problem.

tim
09-15-2008, 04:28 PM
UPS has always feaked out about any sentence with the work "gun" it . As has been said machine parts covers it.

Dennis Sorensen
09-15-2008, 04:40 PM
I never use UPS but I fail to understand how they would even know what the machined parts are for.. Joe sending machined parts to Fred ... ? No laws being broken. Completely legal...

steve b.
09-15-2008, 05:07 PM
I use a local UPS store, and a box of goodies during the holidays, a few bottles of wine on the first day of spring, and it seems to really assist in rule understandings.

Sometimes a little grease goes a long ways.

s.

Larry Elliott
09-15-2008, 05:21 PM
It might work, but it offends my delicate sensibilities to have to bribe people to get them to do their jobs the way they're supposed to. :mad:

Im_leary
09-15-2008, 05:30 PM
Cheechako,

You and I seem to share the same view... that is, UPS HAS a policy. The policy provides for the shipment of parts to and from individuals. There is nothing wrong, from my perspective, with their published policy. BUT... Why certain individuals, within UPS, are being allowed to put their own personal spin on a corporate policy is beyond my grasp. THAT is the very point that should be troubling to everyone. The people that are having trouble wrapping their brains around this clear and concise document are the very same sort who have had a problem interpreting the words, "... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Had a problem, that is, until just a few months ago.

artabr
09-15-2008, 06:11 PM
Seems to me that the employees that Im_leary was dealing with were clueless about what they were talking about. I'd be willing to bet that this took place in some "urban" area of the country.
I never give info about what I'm shipping if I can help it.

Art

adamsgt
09-15-2008, 06:44 PM
Here in Fort Worth I tried to send a pistol to Smith and Wesson for repair. UPS refused to handle it unless I provided them with a copy of Smith And Wesson's license. Numerous phone calls up the chain were fruitless. Finally sent it via FedEx with no problem. You're right, at UPS the inmates are running the asylum.

Paul Fielder
09-15-2008, 07:00 PM
I have just spent several very frustrating hours with my UPS shipping clerk and a very very patronizing and condescending UPS customer service associate, who I spoke to at their 1-800-742-5877 telephone number. The problem is, to be concise, UPS will no longer accept gun parts (any gun part... stock, barrel, screws, pins, whatever) from an "unlicensed individual" to be shipped to another "unlicensed individual". That's right... you read that correctly: if you do not have an FFL, you may neither ship OR RECEIVE gun parts via UPS (according to the supervisory management at the UPS office in Sunbury, PA and UPS Customer Service). Also note that this is a "very recent" policy change, according to the shipping clerk.

No guys... this is not a misunderstanding... I asked all of these people to repeat this several times. As a matter of fact, I was so incredulous, and completely exasperated, I asked the customer service representative to repeat it many times: Boiled down to one sentence, I was told, "... individuals cannot ship or receive gun parts through UPS".

Yes, I am well aware of the fact that UPS's own firearms policy makes (or should I say once made) a clear distinction between "firearms" and "parts". According to the customer service person, however, there is no longer any distinction whatsoever. You may read the actual UPS policy here: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearms+parts To me (I am not a lawyer) bullet item #2 seems to be quite clear. Parts may be shipped as long as there is complete compliance with federal, state, and local laws. I seem to have a minority opinion on how the UPS policy is to be interpreted.


Guys... we have a big problem here.

...bought by ebay?? Do you still use paypal??

Maybe this should go in the opt forum.

I don't ship anything UPS because of their anti gun views, just like I don't use paypal or buy / sell on ebay any more.

I have to receive however anyone ships & my local delivery UPS guy is a GREAT buddy but no anti gun Co. gets my $$$ on purpose. I had a Colt Grizzly S/N 500 stolen by UPS in Harlingen, TX. Dec 23 2007. I'm pretty sure it's in Mex.

Sorry amigo...I got no good answers for you. I hope they see a lot of loss biz and change their policy.

pf
<><

Yote
09-15-2008, 07:16 PM
Something doesn't add up.

Friday I ordered a trigger plate assembly for a Remmy 1100 LT-20 from Remington cause Brownells or Numrich didn't have it. Being sent UPS and the guy on the phone didn't ask for a FFL number.

Five minutes ago I ordered an action bar and feed latch for a 11-87 from Brownells. Ordered it online without a hitch.

:confused::confused::confused:

Paul Fielder
09-16-2008, 09:53 AM
Friday I ordered a trigger plate assembly for a Remmy 1100 LT-20:

...I found one for Dad and it's a dove killer. He's looking for another one or even a fixed 28" IC with vent rib bbl if you run across anything. His is a mod.

Stupid UPS (just not to hijack)

pf
<><

John S
09-16-2008, 04:51 PM
The United State Postal Service is less expensive than UPS.

The United State Postal Service is not full of thefts.

The United State Postal Service will ship long guns (never tried to ship a handgun)

You never ever want to try and make a Claim agains UPS. Even if fully insured they will never pay for damage. You will be found at fault.

artabr
09-16-2008, 06:27 PM
The United State Postal Service is less expensive than UPS.

The United State Postal Service is not full of thefts.

The United State Postal Service will ship long guns (never tried to ship a handgun)

You never ever want to try and make a Claim agains UPS. Even if fully insured they will never pay for damage. You will be found at fault.

The only problem is that its illegal to possess a firearm on federal post office property.
I guess you could mail it from a pack and mail but it just seems to be kinda hypocritical that we can ship what we can't possess.
Don't get me wrong. I know that the post office will ship firearms, it just seems kinda George Carlin ish.


Art

langenc
09-16-2008, 09:40 PM
Maybe the local postmaster wont ship cause it is illegal to bring it into 'his' shop!!

JeffVN
09-17-2008, 09:02 AM
I'll chime in on UPS. I had a DPMS chambered in .260 stolen by a UPS driver. He picked up the rifle from my FFL - who had a signed receipt from the Driver - but the driver never scanned the rifle into their computer system, he simply loaded it into his truck and drove away.

When the buyer started screaming about not getting the rifle, UPS could not find it in their system. The FFL filed a claim for teh rifle, and produced the signed receipt by the driver; at that point everyone started looking for the driver - who had not showed up to work since the day after he picked up the rifle. UPS paid the claim - no questions asked. They took their time processing the claim but they paid.

Needless to say, I prefer Fed-X these days.

JeffVN

caroby
10-03-2008, 12:33 PM
I'll chime in on UPS. I had a DPMS chambered in .260 stolen by a UPS driver. He picked up the rifle from my FFL - who had a signed receipt from the Driver - but the driver never scanned the rifle into their computer system, he simply loaded it into his truck and drove away.

When the buyer started screaming about not getting the rifle, UPS could not find it in their system. The FFL filed a claim for teh rifle, and produced the signed receipt by the driver; at that point everyone started looking for the driver - who had not showed up to work since the day after he picked up the rifle. UPS paid the claim - no questions asked. They took their time processing the claim but they paid.

Needless to say, I prefer Fed-X these days.

JeffVN

This is why ya GOTTA get a tracking number from the Courier or service agent... Then within a few hours of the scan check it on the company web site...

I don't doubt that the rifle was stolen as stated...
Will say that the UPS drivers go through A LOT to become a Courier... In some situations it take YEARS of schlepping packages till their opportunity comes up for a route.
99% of these guys are not gonna do ANYTHING to jeopardize there employment in a well pay'n job! Especially these days! Of course there is that 1%...

koginam
10-04-2008, 11:13 AM
I have a friend who works on stocks about a month or 2 ago he started moving his business into a new location about 20 miles away, as he was moving he wasn't open at the same times and missed his UPS pick up driver several times so he dropped off around 20 or so stocks at a UPS store near his new location for shipment to customers, more then a week later he got several calls from customers wanting the stocks he contacted UPS tracking and none of them showed up, he went back to the store and was told by the store manager his stocks were still their and couldn't be sent without ffl.
He picked them up went to the main UPS pickup point and sent them out without any problem, He complained to UPS headquarters and was assured a letter would be sent to the store near him explaining the rules. According to them it was only a misunderstanding.

TomD
10-04-2008, 11:55 AM
The United State Postal Service is less expensive than UPS.

The United State Postal Service is not full of thefts.

The United State Postal Service will ship long guns (never tried to ship a handgun)

You never ever want to try and make a Claim agains UPS. Even if fully insured they will never pay for damage. You will be found at fault.

I ship a lot of gold and silver coins about and the US Postal Service is the way to go, virtually all precious metals in the country are sent that way. Personal experience of a couple of hundred shippings and they have a screwup rate of 0%.

Several years back, using UPS but not guns or metals, a package that I had insured for $300 was lost, delivered to a totally different address in a different city and not recovered. Months later trying to collect the insurance they ruled against me on ridiculous grounds. I could possibly have hired a lawyer and eventually gotten the money but---

Maybe UPS treats their big customers better.

Dans40X
11-01-2008, 04:42 PM
I prefer the USPS for the simple reason of not being able to recall any body being charged/convicted of a FELONY defrauding/using UPS or FedX.
The Postmaster General takes fraud seriously!!

A friend in high school(18yr old), stole a car, knocked over a dozen rural mail boxes & was convicted/sentenced to 7yrs in Attica Federal Pen in upstate N.Y.
The 25 year old,was paroled a changed individual & is a model citizen to this day-with 1 strike/felony.

tim
11-01-2008, 05:35 PM
As long as legal, you're just shipping "machine parts".