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Don
08-22-2008, 12:09 AM
I was surprised to read that Wa. state has no minimum age limit for hunting licenses.

"Since the accident, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has announced a review of hunting regulations. Under study are closures to hunting on public lands and setting a minimum age for obtaining a hunting license."



"Washington state hunter, 14, fatally shoots a hiker


Pamela Almli, 54, was hiking with a friend on a trail at Sauk Mountain, near Rockport, Wash., when a 14-year-old boy, thinking he was aiming at a black bear, fired a single shot with his .270-caliber rifle. The teen, who was standing 120 feet away from Almli, didnít use binoculars, only his rifle scope.
The boy fires a single shot at what he thinks is a black bear. Avid hiker Pamela Almli, 54, is hit in the head.

By Stuart Glascock, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

August 14, 2008

SEATTLE -- As she had so often before, Pamela Almli, 54, gathered her hiking gear and headed out with a friend for a day hike in the North Cascades. Familiar with the terrain, she felt at home on the trails.

On that same morning this month, two brothers, ages 14 and 16, set off on a hunting trip. Their grandfather dropped them off at a trailhead on Sauk Mountain near Rockport, Wash., in Skagit County, about 90 miles northeast of Seattle.



Location of hunting accidentIt was opening weekend of the black bear hunting season in Washington state. The boys were licensed hunters from the nearby town of Concrete. State law does not require adult supervision of juvenile hunters.

At about 10 a.m., the 14-year-old, who had taken a hunter safety class when he was 9, saw something he thought was a bear. He didn't use binoculars, only his rifle scope. From about 120 feet away he fired a single shot with his .270-caliber rifle. He thought he was taking down a black bear; instead he struck Almli in the head, killing her as she bent over to place something in her backpack.

Almli, from Oso, an unincorporated area of Snohomish County, had been on a marked hiking trial on federal land. Her friend and fellow hiker was a few steps away on the path.


William Almli, in a brief interview this week, said his wife "loved life and loved the outdoors."

"It should have never happened," he said. "[The hunters] did everything that you don't do. Anybody with common sense knows that you don't do the things that he did."

Hikers and hunters often share the same backwoods trails, but fatal hunting accidents involving nonhunters are rare.

This week, Skagit County prosecutors will charge the 14-year-old with first-degree manslaughter. If convicted, he could face nine months in juvenile detention. His older brother has not been charged.

At the time of the accident, it was foggy. Limited visibility of between 20 feet to 100 feet worsened the situation, said Rosemary Kaholokula, Skagit County chief deputy criminal prosecutor.

Nonetheless, prosecutors contend, the young hunter acted irresponsibly. "It is our belief that the boy was reckless in his actions," Kaholokula said this week, "and that recklessness is based at least in part on failure to abide by hunter safety guidelines."

Since the accident, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has announced a review of hunting regulations. Under study are closures to hunting on public lands and setting a minimum age for obtaining a hunting license."

Dennis Sorensen
08-22-2008, 12:20 AM
That's a sad case...

40 yards and he could not tell it was a person...??? and with a scope!

HovisKM
08-22-2008, 08:45 AM
A lot more hikers are killed or injured by falling down the sides of hills than shot by firearms....so why not ban the hikers instead of banning hunting on public lands????

Hovis

beemanbeme
08-22-2008, 09:39 AM
Woman was bent over putting something in her pack??????? Did she have a blaze orange hat and vest on? If she was an experienced hiker and knew she was hiking during hunting season, common sense would dictate that she wear the same protective clothing that a hunter would. "I THINK" that's the law in some places.
I can't speak for other people's kids but by the time my sons were 14 or 16, they had spent probably more time in the woods than folks twice their age.
I don't think the fact that the boy did or didn't have bincos enters into it.

Bill Wynne
08-22-2008, 09:56 AM
There are no excuses that will make this right! The boy did not identify his target and the woman is dead and he will have to live with that, as will her family.

Concho Bill

beemanbeme
08-22-2008, 10:37 AM
I totally agree with you, Bill. But it could have been avoided on several levels.

nrb
08-22-2008, 12:03 PM
Orange blaze - are you joking?
The responsibility rests with the shooter.
Also, age has little to do with this incident as similar killings occur yearly as one "hunter" eliminates another hunter, sometimes his buddy.

best, nrb

Larry Elliott
08-22-2008, 01:11 PM
To paraphrase the late great Jack O'Connor when asked how old someone should be before they're to be trusted with a gun, for some it's 8 or 9 years old, and for others it's never. There are hunters, fortunately fewer every year, who shoot at movement or noise and kill another hunter, a cow, or a horse.

I believe that WA requires hunter safety training, which obviously didn't take in this case.

brian roberts
08-22-2008, 01:47 PM
One nice fall day I was up near the Moffat Tunnel; clear day, beautiful for photography, the time was right, the light was right, the colors were right; I was there to get some shots of a lake. I carefully set up the tripod so I could avoid, and/or mask the orange-vested hunters & RVs out of the finished shot. While doing this, a small herd of Mulies came to within 50-60 feet of me & ambled off. A minute or two later two female hikers appeared, & I stopped them & asked why they were here in the mountains. Appearing somwhat miffed, one answered they were hiking, in a none-of-your-business tone. I asked her then if she knew what time of year it was, & she said: "Fall" as though I was some dummy. I said, "Come here a moment, I want to show you something." I picked up the tripod & moved the rig to a position with a different perspective, lowered the camera to give them an eyelevel height, & focussed it, then told them to look. Each took their turn, & I asked, "Do you see the RVs? Do you see those red specks?" They both answered yes. I said, "Every one of those specks is a hunter, armed with a high-powered rifle; why are you hiking toDAY, on the first day of deer season?" Then I asked the one who had initially addressed me somewhat snottily, "And you, why do YOU have your brown sweater tied around your waist, hanging down your fanny....you DO know the deer are brown, don't you??" Nervously she then took it off & draped it over her arm, & I told her, "No, That's an even more fatal position if you were to be shot, just roll it up tightly, & carry it in your hand back to your car, then leave the area, please." She did as I suggested, then they both wasted NO time in leaving. Now the Colorado agencies had put out NO radio spots, NO TV spots, nothing. Yes, we can all be Monday morning quarterbacks, & like a therapist once said, "You can should all over yourself." BUT....just like the Monday morning quarterbacks, it does no good....the game's still over. Visibility, sound, all the things that "SHOULD" have been done weren't.....BUT had the state, in all its omnipotent wisdom, CLOSED the parks & public lands to anyone withOUT a hunting license, this MAY have been avoided, mightn't it????

Mr. D
08-22-2008, 02:45 PM
The issue is always about having the maturity to exercise good judgment and restraint, not shooting skills. Some never get it at any age, but obviously below a certain age it is less likely. We as a collective have to choose an age regardless of the vast differences in maturity. Sometimes lifelong shooters inject their wishes and good memories of early shooting and want their son's or grandson's to have that experience "maybe" at too young an age. With my son's and grandson and granddaughter I would supervise their maturity and decision making until 18. Before that if I want them to shoot I'b better get my butt off the couch and supervise them "closely".

Dennis Sorensen
08-22-2008, 02:57 PM
Orange blaze - are you joking?
The responsibility rests with the shooter.
Also, age has little to do with this incident as similar killings occur yearly as one "hunter" eliminates another hunter, sometimes his buddy.

best, nrb

You are right...

There are some real slob hunters who do not have a clue.

I have never been a fan of having to where orange... it kind of conditions the "slob" hunter that if it isn't orange he can shoot.

It is a very plain case of not identifying what you are going to shoot.... like really.. what identifying marks did he see that made it a black bear? It makes us (shooters) all look bad (to the non shooter) ...

Paul Fielder
08-22-2008, 03:23 PM
....but I know that many farmers litterally spray paint their livestock up north.

'COW' right on the side of the animal...I think they still get killed?? I don't get it??

pf
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speedpro
08-22-2008, 05:27 PM
there are literally hundreds of people killed daily in the U.S. by expiermental aircraft, playground equipt, toy's, unsupervised animals,auto's kid's flipping and crashing into trees w/ATV's, exc,exc, ages can range from toddler to infinity. The incident mentioned is tragic as all accidental deaths are, the thing that concerns me most is if one occurs with a firearm, gunowners seem to suffer as if we're somehow responsible,we have a high level of responsibility in regards to firearms safety, if there is only 1 idiot in our rank's that's 1 too many. Let's leave the gunowner bashing to the press/media they'll do enough bashing for both sides. We need to police ourselves and be more responsible individuals the gov't and media have tunnel vision and serve no useful purpose in common everyday endevours of our lives.

beemanbeme
08-22-2008, 06:43 PM
Everybody seems really concerned about fixing blame. My post was about fixing the problem or how it could have been avoided. I don't think anyone has said it wasn't the kid's fault. What I suggested was that had the woman had on a orange vest and a orange hat she might very well be alive today.
When my wife and I would hunt and camp in WY, I would hunt and she would hike around and take pixs and such. Even tho we were on a private ranch, I had her wear a orange vest and cap in camp and when she was out walking around. Whether or not it was a crutch for a slob hunter or a trespasser or what, I felt it was cheap insurance.

And too, like the deal down in Texas (which has gotten real, real quiet) and Waco, and Ruby Ridge and such, We've only heard what the media wants us to hear so far but already we've got a bunch of folks hanging this kid up by the balls.

alinwa
08-22-2008, 06:48 PM
As a certified Hunter Safety Instructor in the state of WA I'm privy to statistics which show us to have an enviable record regarding gun safety BUT........ this story is tragic and is one that we're already using in our class. A class started last night and the newspaper article about this incident is out on one of our display tables. Incidents like this are hard to recover from.


spedpro is right, accidents happen....

I also agree with Bill Wynne, there are no excuses.



We stress strongly the danger of "scoping", we hammer hard on the subject of identifying your target. Those kids leave the class thinking that if they EVER use their scope to examine something, one of us instructors will pop out of the brush to give them what for! I've actually had them tell me this years later :)



But this accident happened. In the state with the LOWEST accident rate of all of them, it happened. We will work that much harder to ensure that it doesn't happen much. IMO the single biggest factor involved is FAMILIARITY with firearms, treating firearms as tools. Luckily for us this area is still rural enough that firearms are a way of life. This makes our job as instructors easier. As folks become more citified it becomes harder and harder to keep firearms in our lives as normal pieces of equipment. We shooters are the last bastion. Let's keep shooting and bringing others into the fraternity :):)


al

Rusty Carr
08-22-2008, 07:46 PM
The state of Colorado has it backwards on blaze orange. A few years ago, I.with preference points, got an early season muzzle loader tag. I was required to wear orange, while bowhunters,who were in the woods at the same time were not. Think about it, the law I guess, was to protect me, from I guess, the bowhunters. The bowhunters, on the other hand, who were in much more jeopardy from me than me from them, were not required to wear orange. Explain the common sense in that. Rusty Carr

Bill Wynne
08-22-2008, 07:47 PM
Al,

How do you become a certified Hunter Safety Instructor? I think that several of us might find the time and we might make a difference.

Concho Bill

Yote
08-22-2008, 08:50 PM
The state of Colorado has it backwards on blaze orange. A few years ago, I.with preference points, got an early season muzzle loader tag. I was required to wear orange, while bowhunters,who were in the woods at the same time were not. Think about it, the law I guess, was to protect me, from I guess, the bowhunters. The bowhunters, on the other hand, who were in much more jeopardy from me than me from them, were not required to wear orange. Explain the common sense in that. Rusty Carr

Rusty, if it hasn't changed, it's the same way in Georgia. I must admit I haven't kept up with it since I hunt on my own land and don't worry about it.

Roger T
08-22-2008, 09:05 PM
If you want to be a FSI contact your state Game an Fish Dept.. Minnesota has Instructor classes thoughout the year in lots of locations thoughout the state. Training classes for Instructors are usually posted on the GF or DNR web sights for the individual states. State approved Instructor certs. are valid in the US. Canada P.R. ( last I was told). As for the Incedent posted, in Minnesota while FIREARMS DEER season is in progress if you are AFIELD hunting or not you must wear an Article of Blaze Orange . I would classify this as a TRAGEDY not an ACCIDENT for both parties. Roger T MN FSI

longshooter
08-22-2008, 09:47 PM
In a recreational area that I hunt, there are equine (horse) riders sharing the same woods, on horse trails. Riders are encouraged to wear blaze orange after Sept 15, the start of small game season. Some riders have even been known to put blaze orange on their horses, to help prevent a mishap. The horses generally make alot of noise, usually you hear them coming. I will usually assume a non threatening like position when they pass, as some of them are quite surprised to see a hunter with a gun, and some become quite concerned after they do. If we converse, I will tell them that it actually might be risky for them to use the trails after season opens ( shotguns and rifles are allowed). As the area is very up and down hilly, a mishap could definitely be possible. As a side note, one day a number of years ago, I had bullets whizzing by me, tumbling, I could tell by the sound they were tumbling, I had to take rufuge behind a tree for a couple minutes. I never did know where those bullets were coming from.

Roger T
08-22-2008, 10:27 PM
A Minn. man took his young son (8-10yrs.)old hunting,they were on stand and spotted some birds.But the birds started to move away from them,so dad told his son to stay put and he (dad) would get in front of the Turkeys and get 1. Sometime after the dad left the son followed,the dad heard a noise saw a dark shape and fired. the dad heard the scream and knew what had happend.he carried his son to the road called 911, waited for authorities. Upon arrivel they found a couple of open 12 packs and some pot ,tests showed all in his system. Another thing (1) he did get picked to purchase a tag but never bought it. (2) he never had permission to hunt the land (Private) that he was on. This was the 1st Fatality for Turkey hunting in Minnesota since it began in the mid 70s. The anti-Hunting press has had a field day with this, so has the local school District (not allowed to post FAS class posters in Schools). BTW anyone born on/after 1/1/80 must have a FAS certificate in order to hunt in Minn. FAS is taught to 11yr olds and up. age to hunt alone (with parents permission ) is 14yrs.

Larry Elliott
08-22-2008, 10:28 PM
As a point of interest a guy I know in St Louis asked awhile back if we'd heard about the truck driver who was talking on his cell phone, didn't notice that traffic in front of him was stopped, and ran into the stopped traffic. Two people were killed as I remember. Nothing on the national news, nothing in the local news, but you can bet your last nickely that if the guy had walked into a truck stop or someplace else and shot a couple of people it would have been all over the news.

One accident or one crime where a gun is involved is just the thing that the news media loves to show everyone that all gun owners are careless bums or criminals by implication. :mad:

speedpro
08-22-2008, 11:01 PM
I agree, outdoors people should be aware of the hunting seasons and dress for safety or find another venue at that time. I alway's made sure my children wore blaze orange and their playmates too, in areas where hunters were, during the hunting season. I live in the city so it's of little concern here. I am sorry to hear of the tragic demise of that lady, it comes to me on a day when a bar-b que is being held for a beautiful little 5yr. old girl who was riding a ATV with her older sis, and lost control hit a tree and the baby was killed, a local story, probably won't make it out of the county, heaven forbid if it was a firearm incident, kadie bar the door!
Think about this 250,000 deer tag's sold 140,000 deer harvested, maybe 3, accidental self inflicted gunshot wounds, maaaybe, 1 accidental death either by shooting or heart attack.
Now press/media or anyone tell me where 250,000 guy's can get together doing anything, fartin and drinkin beer, playing cards, eating lil'smokies, pizza, nacho's, hotwings and watching football, running a "marathon"playing softball, golf, nascar, you name it, and come out of it all with less fatalaties than a typical hunting season here in America ! it ain't gonna happen ,takin into account the small percentage of "morons" who by the grace of God make it through the season not harming anyone or getting killed by their own carelessness, I rest my case !....;)

alinwa
08-22-2008, 11:20 PM
Al,

How do you become a certified Hunter Safety Instructor? I think that several of us might find the time and we might make a difference.

Concho Bill


Bill,


Around here it's like Roger T says...... contact Fish and Game. Here in WA you go through a training program (free), are deputized by the Game Dept and are required to donate your time for a minimum number of hours/classes per year. Around here the WA Dept of Fish and Wildlife is incredibly supportive of Hunter Education. The state has a solid budget, mainly generated by the Pittman Robertson tax, and we instructors are well supported. There is ZERO monetary incentive, it's completely volunteer but it really is a rewarding way to spread the word. Our state will provide all literature, line up places to teach, even supply firearms and ammunition. The hardest part is the paperwork. The kids are fun, the teaching portion is interactive and stimulating, the work starts after the kids are gone.

Go for it Bill........ future generations will thank you :)


al

Roger T
08-23-2008, 12:20 AM
As Al said the job doesn't pay well (NONE) but the REWARDS are PRICELESS.My first students are having kids going through my (our)classes now and it's a great feeling to have the parents say that they still follow those lessons that they were taught so long ago :D:D......BTW Minn. gives a small REWARD every 5 yrs of service 5yrs a Gift Pen,10yrs a Belt Buckle,15yrs a Pocket Knife,20yrs a Wildlife Print,25yrs a Better Wildlife Print:)....But it's the STUDENTS that are the BIGGEST REWARD:D:D:D:D..................Also the classes are open to all ages, we get alot of Moms an Dads that take the class with their kids as a Refresher or because they never had the class before. We had a Very SPRY 73 yr old GREAT GRANDMA take it this past spring with her GreatGrandDaughter and was amazing in the field excersizes, so for those in that AGE bracket BEWARE you've got compitition;)

Mr. D
08-23-2008, 04:13 AM
I have a good shooting friend who has the need to build rifle for each of his son's and grandson's and lead them into shooting sports at a very young age whether a strong interest is in them or not. Of course most children are fascinated with guns as we all were as kids. Being a supporter of shooting is a great thing, but we must realize that knowledge and experience in the handling and operation of a firearm does not replace the judgment and maturity that comes with age. Saying it does, doesn't make it so. Many 12 year olds could be taught to fly a 747 due to their dexterity, intelligence and hand/eye coordination, but that does not mean they have the maturity to hold the lives of hundreds of people in their hands. Some people's own enthusiasm for shooting sports overpowers their judgment and they rationalize their own need to see their small children shooting by stating how well they've been trained, but maturity and life experience creates good judgment. At least, if you are going to have young children shooting they should at minimum be very, very closely supervised.

Roger T
08-23-2008, 12:14 PM
The first question we ask our students is( Who do you hunt with?),They say Dads ,Brothers, Moms, Family ,Freinds, GPa, GMa etc. Then we ask what would they do?,how would they feel ? if they shot and killed or mamed that person. The LOOK on their faces Young and Old is something. As far as Maturity (AGE) goes it does play a part in this process, BUT if you don't RESPECT the FIREARM and what it does you have NO BUISNESS with a firearm. Frankley that applies to alot of MACHO types running around this Country, They have no Respect for the Firearm and that's what gets people KILLED. I tell our students not to worry about their First Buck etc. enjoy being out with family ,freinds etc.thats what it's all about. About 40% of our classes are women/girls (25-30 each class) they pay way more attention to the Ins. and are better students .They don't have that I KNOW IT ALL ATTITUDE alot of guys have (BEEN THERE):o. I tell the class about a Sheep hunt in BC I was on aways back ,cost a HUGE sum (for me anyway) I never fired the Rifle, was it worth it ? EVERY PENNY best hunt I ever had.:p:D

alinwa
08-23-2008, 02:02 PM
I have a good shooting friend who has the need to build rifle for each of his son's and grandson's and lead them into shooting sports at a very young age whether a strong interest is in them or not. Of course most children are fascinated with guns as we all were as kids. Being a supporter of shooting is a great thing, but we must realize that knowledge and experience in the handling and operation of a firearm does not replace the judgment and maturity that comes with age. Saying it does, doesn't make it so. Many 12 year olds could be taught to fly a 747 due to their dexterity, intelligence and hand/eye coordination, but that does not mean they have the maturity to hold the lives of hundreds of people in their hands. Some people's own enthusiasm for shooting sports overpowers their judgment and they rationalize their own need to see their small children shooting by stating how well they've been trained, but maturity and life experience creates good judgment. At least, if you are going to have young children shooting they should at minimum be very, very closely supervised.



Someone who " has the need " to build a rifle for his offspring has his own issues unrelated to the needs of the kids.


I have to somewhat disagree with the statement that "of course most children are fascinated with guns". Kids raised in a healthy, safe, rewarding and FUN hunting/shooting home are no more "fascinated" by guns than by the family sedan. We use driving to illustrate many of our points re guns and shooting...... we intend for our graduates to look at firearms as tools, just like a car. If a kid is "fascinated with" and wants to go out and sneak around and fiddle with the car (or with firearms) then he won't pass our tests. (hopefully :rolleyes:) We won't let a kid through the class until we're comfortable walking down a trail with the kid behind us with a loaded rifle.


And while we advocate parental supervision we also prepare the kids for the inevitable arguments with their elders. Our worst nemesis is "Uncle Butch" the storytelling Uber Hunter from camp who considers himself to be above the rules. We have far more problems with uneducated and attitude filled ADULTS than with the kids. So we prepare them for it, right in from of the parents. (We also ask the parents to sit through the entire class.) There are parents who not only won't sit thru our classes will furthermore try to re-teach the kid after he leaves! We literally give the kids license to call us and ask for support. The incidence of argument has dropped precipitously over the years we've been teaching this :D

In just over 30yrs of observation and training I'm aware of more accidents involving adults and their attitudes than those involving kids. Kids are wicked smart and attentive. In our experience the highest accident ratio occurs in those between 17 and 30.

An acquaintance of mine was one of these "adults", supposedly tempered by age and maturity. While hunting with his 14yr-old nephew the nephew asked for help crossing the fence. They argued. Finally the 14yr-old gave in and did an unassisted crossing where he unloaded his firearm, slid it under the fence safely and then crossed on his own while the "adult" fumed. The adult then proceeded to shoot and kill his little hunting buddy while crossing on his own. The adult was 20yrs old.

The reason that WA dropped its age limit to "has valid Hunter Safety card" was because we've earned a reputation for safety.

One thing that WA does NOT have is the "deer camp ritual" mindset where the kid looks forward to being old enough to go out to hunting camp to drink and carouse with the guys ........ We teach hunting for the sake of hunting and teach ZERO tolerance for alcohol.


Anyway, I'm not trying to downplay parental supervision, nor to argue with the fact that age brings maturity. BUT, we've found that early training is an effectual method. Early training allows maturity to bring wisdom instead of compensatory attitude. We actually fight ATTITUDE more than ignorance IME.

Get their attitudes right when they're young and they'll grow into responsible adults.

In the meantime, we never assume that because a person is old they're mature.


al

Roger T
08-24-2008, 03:06 PM
Well said Al

Paul Fielder
08-24-2008, 04:04 PM
Someone who " has the need " to build a rifle for his offspring has his own issues unrelated to the needs of the kids.


I have to somewhat disagree with the statement that "of course most children are fascinated with guns". Kids raised in a healthy, safe, rewarding and FUN hunting/shooting home are no more "fascinated" by guns than by the family sedan.

al

....walk by a gun I'm working on or taking pics of in the living room like it was a broom or dirty dish. They do understand that messing with Daddy's guns is like sticking your hand in the bbq fire. Not a smart thing to do. They have been overly warned about this but I think they have just been around them so much, there is no curisoity. It is their friends coming over that concerns me more. I just lock myself in the work room or put everything up when other kiddos come over.

Neither one of mine have shown any interest in shooting or hunting thus far. Disappointing for me but they are still young.

pf
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HovisKM
08-25-2008, 02:09 PM
Was my post that harsh and non-politically correct????

alinwa
08-25-2008, 03:01 PM
Why do you ask Hovis? You're referring to the post about banning hikers?

Or was there another one?

Who called it politically incorrect?

al

Paul Fielder
08-25-2008, 03:08 PM
Was my post that harsh and non-politically correct????

...the poster you refered to probably whined to the super moderators:-)

I thought it was cool about you flying before driving. My Dad was the same way....he has some good stories too.

pf
<><

Roger T
08-25-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm sorry but ACCIDENTLEY pulling the trigger dosen't cut it in my book,neither does SCOPEING game that's what field glasses are for.If your not 100% sure of your target and what's beyond you NEVER bring the FIREARM up.Call it what you will Buck Fever etc.if you don't teach the Stalk & Enjoyment of the outdoors (NOT the taking of the animal ) (that's secondary ) and tell uncle Butch or brother Bob that I'll shoot when it's safe your going to continue to have TOO MUCH PEER PRESSURE to make a bad choice.That's bad for all of us.

HovisKM
08-26-2008, 10:36 AM
...the poster you refered to probably whined to the super moderators:-)

I thought it was cool about you flying before driving. My Dad was the same way....he has some good stories too.

pf
<><

I guess your right....one thing I learned....when I got drivers lincenes, there were a lot more things to run into...:eek::eek:

Hovis

HovisKM
08-26-2008, 10:44 AM
For those who don't know why I posted about the politically correct thing. I had a long post with real world details of gun handling by adults in the military, muzzle safety, having pilot lincenes before drivers lincenes and that all kids aren't poor gun handlers. But I guess someone cried foul and got the post deleted. I also talked about how more kids drown in swimming pools every year than killed by the mishandling of guns, so what should we ban??? hunting, guns or swimming pools. I thought we were on a forum about shooting but I guess I stepped on a liberal.

Hovis

Paul Fielder
08-26-2008, 10:51 AM
...chicken don't have too many feathers left if they forgot their chutes:- That one always made me giggle as a kid.

He also says deer hunters don't like you flying low over their hunting areas....said he was certain they were not waving.

pf
<><

HovisKM
08-26-2008, 11:40 AM
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but no old bold pilots.

That was the first thing I saw the very first time I went to the airport for training. I know there are some exceptions to that rule but they all have hair raising stories but most of those Oh Sh*t stories are told second hand if you know what I mean.

Hovis

Paul Fielder
08-26-2008, 12:06 PM
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but no old bold pilots.

That was the first thing I saw the very first time I went to the airport for training. I know there are some exceptions to that rule but they all have hair raising stories but most of those Oh Sh*t stories are told second hand if you know what I mean.

Hovis

...to earn a little extra $$$. He crashed showing off one day and turned it upside down in a farmers field. I don't know if he ever got in another plane since. He also was an instructor during WWII which kept him out of combat.

Dad quit flying right after college and most of his stupid stuff was during high school....He only had one oh sh*t story trying to land during a storm but the rest were just ding-dong pranks like flying over the girls dorm & goofing off like I stated.

I certainly had no business flying at that age. I might not be around to tell them stories:-)

I'm still amazed by them and love watching "Dogfights" on TV & how the plane developed. If interested, PM me your email and I'll send you a cool vid w/ some jets right at the sound / sonic boom mark....cool stuff.



Sorry about the hijack guys!! I know TX has a state law on being alone while hunting but that does not mean a kid is ready. No one matures the same. I can name lots of minors I'll hunt next to w/ out a worry but also know 1 or 2 adults I won't stay at the range with much less go hunting!!

pf
<><

Roger T
08-26-2008, 07:04 PM
The 40 yr old man was sentanced Mon. 8/25/08 to 30 days in jail,10yrs.probation 80 hrs. of community service each of the next 5yrs.to include speaking about Hunter Saftey. Blood alcohol at scene was .06 (state limit is .08) pot in system( pipe in car) He plead guilty to 2nd degree manslaughter June 19. Charges of Reckless discharge of a Firearm,Tresspassing,and hunting Turkey without a liscence were dropped