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tpende
08-14-2008, 07:51 PM
just like everyone else i get sick of putting holes in paper fairly quick. so im always trying to come up or find good reactive targets. i happen to be a metal fabricator/machinist by trade so it comes in handy for the swingers & dingers.

im just looking to get a bunch of good suggestions together for long range reactive targets.

im sure a bunch of you guys have used these but for those of you who havent though of it. those mini 8oz short pop cans work GREAT! even out to 400 my .223 manages to turn them into mini grenades. plus if you do the math they cost about the same as the round you fire at them.

BTW i was lucky enough to peg 6 in a row in under 2min. with my single shot. ive got a vid of it. ill try to get it on youtube for you guys to enjoy sometime soon.

Travelor
08-15-2008, 05:52 AM
I would get some AR500 steel and cut it into different shapes to represent different "targets" such as ground squirrels, gophers, bowling pins, Mullah's, etc. For the most bang-for-the-buck, have them on bases with a spring and hinge so they can fall back a bit, then spring back to the upright position.

:cool:

Bill M
08-15-2008, 08:25 AM
Steel, balloons, clay pigeons, cup of flour/lime, eggs, fired brass?...

Andrew B
08-15-2008, 10:19 AM
Makes reactive steel targets for rifles. I have self righting poppers and spring loaded prarie dogs from him. Had them for years. I have them at 300 & 400 yards and they have lasted through many rounds of 22-250 to 300 Weatherby fire.

Fun to shoot, Good service

http://www.mgmtargets.com/

tpende
08-15-2008, 03:13 PM
ive made a few different siloutes out of high carbon steel (rhinos, the mud flap chick, ect.) and some 1/2" thick 4inch rounds and a swinger with a 4inch round pendulum. i think ill have to try the sprng loaded variety. my only problem with steel is i cant always tell exactly where i hit it at, and walkin 400 with a can of spray paint every 10 shots gets to be a bit much. i may try to do a one 1.5 inch hole in the center kind of another spring loaded "bullseye flap" behind it

Sonof A. Gunn
08-15-2008, 05:28 PM
How about paint balls? :confused:

alinwa
08-15-2008, 06:11 PM
I don't get sick of putting holes in paper quick. :)

al

JJ-IA
08-15-2008, 06:18 PM
just like everyone else i get sick of putting holes in paper fairly quick. </snip>

Now that's funny! :D
Considering where you’re posting, its like walking up to a group of teenage boys and saying “ya know, just like you guys, I get tired of thinking about cars and girls, girls and cars, cars and girls….” LOL

I did plasma cut some spring loaded prairie dogs and a rabbit last year and everyone enjoys shooting at them (some people I know will not shoot paper). I’ll see if I can post a picture or two of the design later this evening.

Jim

Dennis Sorensen
08-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Perhaps you should have posted in this forum....
General Discussion
Firearms topics not related to Benchrest

:)

JJ-IA
08-15-2008, 07:33 PM
General is exactly where it belongs, hopefully a mod will come along and move it shortly. ;)

LHSmith
08-23-2008, 09:27 PM
..............apparently he has never experienced what happens to a sane,rational person once they get 5 shots to go though the same steenkin hole.........life is never the same again :)

hecksf
08-23-2008, 09:48 PM
I don't really get tired of it. I just get tired of doing it poorly.
Putting holes in paper is what we specialize in. I don't think we could have a BenchRest match without it.
Unless of course we came up with some new precision target material. Then we would sit at the bench all day and put holes in that.

But if you are still interested in reactive targets, they have some in Afghanistan that are real reactive and you get paid to shoot at them. All you have to do is ante up and sign on the line.

Ted

LHSmith
08-23-2008, 09:52 PM
No response from the formica guy yet?

SooStan
08-24-2008, 07:31 PM
How about paint balls? :confused:

Great Idea for the 22 off hand or the rifle prone at 300 or 400.

Swamp Fox
08-25-2008, 02:07 AM
Charcoal briquettes poof pretty good. A 20 lb bag is about $6.

Carl C
08-25-2008, 10:44 AM
Mothballs are my favorite reactive target (I know it's hard to catch them with their legs apart). Off center hits result in chips, but center hits give you a big puff of white powder. I use them with rimfires as well as pellet rifles. I don't shoot them often, but they are a nice change from paper occasionally.

Carl C

tpende
12-11-2008, 09:23 PM
hahahahahah it took me 3 months to catch that one.


oh yeah fruit works pretty darn good too. kiwi

Mirage416
12-11-2008, 10:24 PM
If the ingredients in the binary reactive targets are legal to mix on-site and use as a target, I wonder if a non-commercial version of the same product would still remain legal to use for a target. They are pretty expensive to purchase, but the ingredients can be had very cheap.

alinwa
12-11-2008, 10:36 PM
If the ingredients in the binary reactive targets are legal to mix on-site and use as a target, I wonder if a non-commercial version of the same product would still remain legal to use for a target. They are pretty expensive to purchase, but the ingredients can be had very cheap.

Yeahhh, it's legal. I know the guy who makes them. They're mfgd here in my area.

Cold packs and ground AL or Mg............. perfectly legal reactive targets and truly HE reactive!

You say "very cheap"....... care to share source info? I buy the cold packs at a medical supply warehouse, case price.

al

Mirage416
12-11-2008, 11:37 PM
Yeahhh, it's legal. I know the guy who makes them. They're mfgd here in my area.

Cold packs and ground AL or Mg............. perfectly legal reactive targets and truly HE reactive!

You say "very cheap"....... care to share source info? I buy the cold packs at a medical supply warehouse, case price.

al

Al,

Cold packs are probably an expensive source for AN. You want to buy hydroponic fertilizer in bags, in prilled form. It would be 34-0-0 for pure AN, and make sure it is pure. I haven't looked in a while, but you could get 20lb bags of ammonium nitrate prills on eBay for about $50 over a year ago. That's actually high if you consider that agricultural AN goes for about .50c/lb.

The prill form keeps it from absorbing moisture quickly, as it is highly hygroscopic. You powder the prills with a cheap electric coffee grinder right before mixing and use. It will not store over a day without being completely sealed after grinding.

The binary reactive targets you purchase actually are very weak if you consider the speed of the detonation wave in them.

If you wanted something a lot more powerful, you would use 75:20:5 AN/Pure nitromethane/aluminum powder. The 5% aluminum powder will help sensitize the mixture. Aluminum also lengthens the pressure pulse and gives you a thermobaric boom. So if you can alter the ratio to 70:20:10 with more AL powder and still get it to detonate, the shockwave will be noticeably more thunderous.

It is not dangerous to flame, only strong impact from a bullet. It would just burn vigorously if ignited. The AN is not dangerous while grinding, until mixed with the fuels. Weigh them and put them together in a zip-loc bag, kneed it well for a few minutes with your hands. Stuff the bag tight into some sort of disposable tupper-ware container to shoot, so the air is out and the density is consistent.

Start small (1/4lb) and put it at least 100 yards out.

Be safe and have fun. ;)

John Kielly
12-12-2008, 12:22 AM
I haven't looked in a while, but you could get 20lb bags of ammonium nitrate prills on eBay for about $50 over a year ago.
That's cute.

On one hand your legislators are "protecting" you with questionable branded bullet legislation & FFL hassels while on the other you can buy nitroprill in convenient 20 pound bags that any terrorist can pack his boot with right beside the jerry can of diesel.

You may as well come over here to live.

alinwa
12-12-2008, 02:33 AM
Naaahhh, it's actually hard right now to buy prilled AN, they blame "911" but I think it's just control. The poor farmers are taking it hard. The whole political angle is just sad.

We've been into pyrotechnics here for a long time, I've been fiddling with small fireworks and private fireworks displays for 30yrs and my #3 son really took to it. He's in the Marine Corp now, hoping to cross-train with UDT/SEAL demo teams, with plans to go on to New Mexico Tech for an engineering degree in demolition. I guess it's "the" college for demolition/explosives engineering...... the MIT of BOOM. He found out young that this is an expensive hobby and decided early that he's gonna' get PAID to blow stuff up.

It's been a fun ride with him, his teachers in High School have been behind him all along as he's a fine student, even got to do explosives oriented projects in school. Kinda' funny in this age of meth labs, I've got a 12X16 wellhouse that's been his laboratory for several years. They're developing a rock pit only a mile away from our home and they started sending in a technician to draw our well water every month. One day I realized that the poor lady's probably completely FREAKED by the hotplates and retorts constantly bubbling in our well house. My son had created his own little environment in there, rolls of wire and 100ct banks of switches....funny smells...Ball mills running, precipitates and oily yellow mixtures fuming and dripping into covered bowls, bent and holed steel plates all over.......goggles and suits and face shields hanging on the wall.

So one day I was home when I saw the tech drive up there and went up to meet the lady. We talked for a while and she says "BTW, who's the chemist?"

Ohh no, here it comes...... :(

"My 16yr old son."

"Ohh that SO AWESOME to see kids USING THEIR MINDS!!! :):):) He could be in playing Nintendo and he's out here getting a nitro headache instead... I'm sure you're proud if him!!!!"


Yeahh BAYBIE!!! I coulda' give 'er a hug right there. I shouldn't have been worried. :) she knew what was going on the whole time. Weren't no meth lab.

I guess engineers run true to type even be they be they hydrological engineers!!


But yeahhh, these binaries. at 100yds a half pounder will tug at your shirt and make you step back. We've used them to get rid of bunch of buried boulders in the lawn, the AN/AL mix has greater shattering capability than ANFO or straight dynamite. It don't lift for beans but it sure crumbles rocks and produces a nice gut-wrenching boom. For lifts we use ANFO.

Mirage416, I'm sure you're right and #3 son would be right there with you. He doesn't even really share information anymore with us non-engineering types.... We still say "explosion" while he talks in terms of "reactance" and "yield" and "decomposition properties." Regarding the safety, we really are safety conscious and he more than us. I'd see him jamming tubes full of powders using a 20 ton arbor press that he'd built and I'd wince a little since my work has all been with BP stuff. He built gerbs and flowers ground pounders that put me to shame and never so much as got a burn. He won't even tell his friends (or us) about his mixes, especially detonating primaries. He'd mix up novelty stuff like nitrogen tri-iodide, show us how cool it was and then destroy it all. For the fireworks shows he'd cook up detonating mixes like styphnates and azides, ETN and PETN, and we'd have to use it all up. He never stored anything. I remember one time we were down on the range shooting and he came over with a paper plate of white powder, maybe a teaspoon (he talks only in metric weights ;) ) and said "check this out." He slipped a little onto a hunk of cardboard, maybe half an aspirin tablet's worth, and told me to tap it with a hammer. We all had our safety glasses and ear plugs on....... it took chunks out of the concrete shop floor! I know safety procedure for the BP mixes, binary AN, even the "flash" perchlorate/AL mixes don't scare me but high order stuff is out of my league..... a man's gotta' know his limitations. Yeahh, "safety" takes on a whole new meaning when dealing with high order stuff. And "thunderous" is an accurate term. About a half pound is right where we want it. We've gone up to 3lb but the thunder is only slightly more than 1/2lb (The old inverse square issue.)



Yup, we're missing him, and the earthquakes he produced daily. Thanks for bringing it up.

For shooters looking for a cool reactive novelty target, just search Tannerite online to buy really loud targets for $2-4.00 a pop. For the casual NON-chemist types it's a spectacular value for the money. You can set up "bullseyes" at about 1/4lb per 100yds distance and folks will KNOW the score. DO NOT shoot these within 3 miles of a residential area or the cops WILL show up! These don't pop like firecrackers nor bang like M-80's, they ROAR.

sorry to derail the thread guys, I'm just reminiscing here. His lab is gone, it's a garden shed now. He'll have to improvise when he comes home.


LOL


al

DaRealViper
12-12-2008, 03:18 AM
Al Socorro not very much to do but a very good school. Remember some formulas for Thermite, Homemade Napalm, CO2 Boomers, Improv Claymoors etc. There is also a FBI or Federal Gov't explosives test facility in Socorro similar to the one at Eglin Air Force Base.


As for targets. I prefer Biodegradables:

Jello brand Gelatin In quart or gallon plastic jugs 100 125 150 175 200yds up down left right of center.

Dollar store cookies on fishing line off hole drilled in real estate sign use alligator clips to hold. feeds some of the critters also.

Balloons on a string tied to shrubs simulates head shots at 200-300yds.

Golf balls Drill half hole insert screw tie to string and then to hole in real estate sign or other metal target holder.

Squash, Pumpkins, Tomatoes, Etc. Garden leftovers at end of year.

Lifesavers etc. Yucca Pods, Clay pigeons.

Leftover Police, Sheriff Dept, Border Patrol Training Targets.

Primers, shot gun shells, 22lr cases, asprin, stick matches, pencils length wise, glass bottles, sheet rock, concrete, old tires, tv sets, vacuume cleaners, wood 2x4's, bricks, car and truck doors of various years, Headlights tailights, old car bodies,VCRs, roofing materials, floor materials, washers, dryers, paneling, stucco, windows windshields, anything from a house car etc. placing targets in front and beyond these items to see ballistics effects. The only thing safe from a .22lr at 100yds is American car and truck doors prior to 1972 and some plastics.
Cactus, Snakes, Stink Bugs, Kangaroo Rats, Ground hogs, Prarie Dogs, Brake discs and Drums, Old engine blocks, Dozer Blades, old Road signs, Railroad ties, Wet Phone books. Armor Piercing Rounds Through 7/8" steel plate. Rocks Dirt Clods etc. Screws, Nails, Plastic Beads and Pot Pouri Decorations from dollar stores,
Chyalume flourescent light sticks. Night shooting in an old abandoned mill, old foundations ghost towns. old Business signs and railroad parts, safety glass, plastics, drink coolers, styrofoam, rope, twine, wire, cardboard, etc.


22LR out of a handgun will pop tires at 50yds, penetrate 3 2x4's, and go through any car and truck doors. Highpower rifles are capable of this at 500-600yds.

Isn't much I haven't shot through, but now mostly paper targets.

Big Al
12-12-2008, 07:38 AM
For a good time when you are in a fun mood, I might suggest the following link.

http://www.tannerite.com/


This is what I think of when you ask about reactive targets.

Rustystud
12-12-2008, 08:07 AM
I think the Montana Dynamite shoot is pretty good example.

It is self explainatory and there is no doubt if you hit your target.

Rustystud

Mirage416
12-12-2008, 05:12 PM
Alinwa,

Good stories. Reminds me all too much of the many rural blasting memories I have.

As for ammonium nitrate, it's still not illegal to possess or sell. They have just tried placing certain restrictions on agricultural sellers to try and bottleneck the flow into peoples hands. But the product still isn't regulated. I bet if you watch long enough, it will show up on ebay. Or again, it is a hydroponic fertilizer, so someone has to sell it for that purpose.

Instead though, you can get 10lbs of potassium nitrate on ebay for about $20 right now. Just did a search. It won't oxidize as much as ammonium nitrate, but it will sure do the trick to get a decent detonation. It can be sensitized with nitromethane as well. Try something like 60:40 PNNM or maybe a little higher PN content till you get it to go with a rifle. Some aluminum powder will work there also in the mix.

I haven't looked for 99.9% nitromethane, but as a common race car fuel, I know gallons of it are available to the public.

You have luck getting AL/AN to det from a rifle? Are you mixing it 90:10 or less on aluminum? I didn't think that mixture would be sensitive enough by itself. I know ANFO surely isn't rifle sensitive. You need a booster to get it to go.

One thing I just have to disagree with you on. 3lbs sounding only slightly louder than 1/2lb. NO WAY!!! You are right about the CJ square effect on wave pressure making it harder to go a distance and remain loud. But, if you shoot 3lbs at 100 yards after shooting a 1/2lb at 100 yards, good lord the difference. 3lbs with 10-15% aluminum will damn near make you crap your pants at that distance.

AL/AN vs ANFO will both achieve around 40 kilobars of blast pressure. I think what you are seeing on the boulders is the effect of an aluminized mixture actually having a higher total energy output than non-metalized mixtures. In the initial detonation front, only a very small percentage of aluminum is consumed with the oxidizer in the mixture. After the initial extreme pressure superheats and expands the aluminum cloud, it then actually consumes a volume of surrounding oxygen from the atmosphere in mere milliseconds. So the total weight of consumed fuels and oxidizers is higher than what is actually weighed on the scale. Since the aluminum is not oxidized fully in the initial detonation wave, it does not contribute to peak pressure (thus why it is the same as ANFO). The pulse effect is simply extended by the time frame of consumption, and the wave energy is greater. This is like using a slower rifle powder in a firearm. The pressure spike may not be as great, but the spike lasts longer, and the impulse converted to kinetic energy can actually be greater at lower pressure. This is why thermobaric explosives used in military weapons do so much damage to more distant objects--like the MOAB, for instance. They are highly aluminized mixtures.

mike cockcroft
12-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Gateway Dynamite Shoot- Colorado

tpende
12-12-2008, 06:18 PM
damn.....you guys dont mess around

alinwa
12-12-2008, 08:53 PM
Alinwa,


You have luck getting AL/AN to det from a rifle? Are you mixing it 90:10 or less on aluminum? I didn't think that mixture would be sensitive enough by itself. I know ANFO surely isn't rifle sensitive. You need a booster to get it to go.

One thing I just have to disagree with you on. 3lbs sounding only slightly louder than 1/2lb. NO WAY!!! You are right about the CJ square effect on wave pressure making it harder to go a distance and remain loud. But, if you shoot 3lbs at 100 yards after shooting a 1/2lb at 100 yards, good lord the difference. 3lbs with 10-15% aluminum will damn near make you crap your pants at that distance.


As I recall, the trick with the AL/AN mixes has to do with granulation. The AL HAS to be so finely divided that you wouldn't want to get it on ya'. I know that 3-son spent months finding how to grind it fine enough and avoid oxidation loss. It's nice that we have a fairly local supplier. I may be confusing myself here though with a KCLO4 mix....... "flash"....... I could find out with a phone call.

Regarding 3lb VS 1/2lb ............ Ok, OK!...... so I hyperbolized just a little :D:D:D but the raw fact is that sound effects are very locality specific and it takes a lot more energy to materially increase the "sound quotient" at a given spot. We live on a high area surrounded by 2000acres of timberland, it takes A LOT of thunder to be more impressive. The thing with the half-pounder is that you just mix the ingredients in a ziploc while conversing casually with the victim........knead it up good and run it into a corner to shape it into a perfect little cone, squeeze the air out.......now you just walk downrange 70-100yds and set it on the face of a stump and ask the guy if he thinks he can hit it. "there'll be a bang and a big puff of smoke".


k'WAMMMM!!!!! phblphblblblbphttt...!


By the same token even a quarter-pounder detonated in the neighborhood of a still summer evening will rattle windows for 10 city blocks.......this stuff AIN'T like firecrackers! It's not suitable for anything but detonation a mile from neighbors. I've got a mile long driveway.


BTW, one of the most impressive sound machines of all is a firecracker pile. If you can figger out how to get 20-50,000 firecrackers (or more) to rip off in less than 5 seconds it's AWESOME!!! I made up several piles last 4th and set them on 5/8 plywood for carrying...... we went out to pick up, the plywood was GONE!

Last yr at the PGI Convention's "Firestorm in Fargo" they did 2 million crackers 6ft off the ground. THIS BadBoy will peel your face back at a hunnerd paces.....

fun stuff.


al

John Kielly
12-13-2008, 02:56 AM
...... so I hyperbolized
Damn, al, don't use words I gotta look up on wikipedia! :o

alinwa
12-13-2008, 01:18 PM
Damn, al, don't use words I gotta look up on wikipedia! :o

Well I can see why, it'd be slow to write that way!

:D

al


Firecracker piles.......... here are a couple of pre-made bulk packs. Take something like these, add quick-match fuses into several spots to get allover ignition and then bury the whole thing in a large mound of firecracker packs........frigginRIPPIN!!!! man!

Makes people fall off their chairs.

tpende
12-27-2008, 08:08 PM
Hell yes!!