PDA

View Full Version : the end of general discussion



tomgrace50
08-08-2008, 12:46 PM
you might as well shot down general discussion-- hardley any one has any thing interesting to say any more-- i learned a lot from the people who were not smart azzes and ignored the ones that were-- to bad

Dennis Sorensen
08-08-2008, 01:16 PM
I am sorry that your life was consumed by the political bickering that was posted. It sure did not add anything to Benchrest Central... and I am sure no one changed their political mind about by what they read here.

3 cheers for Wilbur as far as I am concerned.

tomgrace50
08-08-2008, 02:22 PM
that makes one

Yote
08-08-2008, 03:26 PM
Tom, I totally agree. I believe there is a void here now and an uncertainty in what we can and can't discuss, how we can discuss it, and who we can discuss it with.

Dennis, despite the political bickering you so eloquently stated, there were other things being discussed here that were interesting. Many of these topics or posts on these topics have disappeared. It's not the politics that were the problem, it was the bickering. I've seen bickering in every forum available here at this site but it has been allowed. Of course those were specific forums about br, shooting, equipment, etc. It was my understanding that General Discussion was for things not related to benchrest. So no, it did not add anything to benchrest, but it wasn't supposed to was it?

Wilbur might as well do away with this forum as it's a ghost town now and use it for some other specific category.

MRL
08-08-2008, 03:26 PM
This makes two. I don't miss the "you are all stupid becasuse you don't think what I tell you to think" attitude.

Chisolm
08-08-2008, 03:31 PM
I am sorry that your life was consumed by the political bickering that was posted. It sure did not add anything to Benchrest Central... and I am sure no one changed their political mind about by what they read here.

3 cheers for Wilbur as far as I am concerned.


+1

James

tomgrace50
08-08-2008, 03:44 PM
it is not the bickering that i miss it is the facts that i learned - and in politics there is a lot of smoke and mirror --i miss it

Lynn
08-08-2008, 04:03 PM
I guess I missed the whole boat here? I thought this was Benchrest Central and the General Discussion Forum would be used to talk about the more cmmon aspects of accuracy such as were to find a part,who in my area can paint a stock,which muzzlebrake do I want on my factory rifles and stuff like that.

Didn't The Chairman of The Board(Mr Wilbur Harris) say no more politics?

Do a GOOGLE search for politics if thats what your after and visit here for gun related topics.
Lynn

Lynn
08-08-2008, 05:24 PM
Political arguments are now accompanied by Callfee????

Mike
I don't see the connection between politics and Mr Calfee.Has he replied here?
Lynn

Big Al
08-08-2008, 05:24 PM
I have yet to see a single post anywhere else on this site from Mr. D. I have to count that as a good thing about what Wilbur did. Doesn't anybody notice that without the politics Far fewer people post anything at all.

Of course you have to wonder why people that had a problem with this in the first place didn't exercise the option of not reading the posts? Yet they felt drawn to them, for material to complain about?

Reminds me of my wife when she hears me yell at the TV NEWS, "if it upsets you, then why do you have it on"? I have not had a reasonable answer to give Her. Perhaps we all have a little to much bulldog in us to ignore a fight?:D

Sitting Duck
08-08-2008, 05:38 PM
So what has Wilbur done? Apparently, I've missed something here.

brad541thb
08-08-2008, 08:52 PM
Wilbur did what he needed to do. It's his website, and he pays the tab afterall. Keep in mind he did give us warnings. I know why he did it. And I understand it fully. When you stop and think since he stopped the political posts, I can't think of 1 incident out of the norm.

Mr. D
08-09-2008, 04:23 AM
I have yet to see a single post anywhere else on this site from Mr. D.

Then you haven't been paying attention Big Al! You are right that I don't post a lot about benchrest issues because I'm a varmint hunter and interested in this forum as to how it applies to accuracy shooting.

Let's all get a little honest just for once!

The real reason that politics was a problem is because a number of members are unable to carry on a civil discussion related to politics or religion. The problem was never discussing the important political issues of our country, it was those who cannot bear to hear anything but their own narrow opinions without getting enraged, uncivil and calling names! When some members hear a different view from their own they get enraged and go into attack mode acting like spoiled children spitting insults. Wilbur got tired of seeing the childish bickering and I don't blame him at all. Thank God non shooters don't see the uncivil, childish things said by those who ardently defend the right to keep in bear arms. If you can't control your mouth and temper then why would they want you to have firearms????

I like discussing politics, religion, philosophy with those who think differently than myself because I learn from them and my views change and broaden from exchanging ideas. Frankly, I've sort of given up on most shooters on this forum having the ability to discuss important issues in a rational way. Many on this forum see it as a Holy War to be won by attacking an enemy! That's sad, but it explains why the world is in the shape it is!

As I say on my signature, "Debating is about learning from each other, not winning!" Wilbur is right! That is not possible here! It doesn't speak well for the shooting sports when we can't even speak openly to each other without someone getting enraged and uncivil!

We need Jack Nicholson here to say, "Discuss politics like an adult, you can't handle it!"

speedpro
08-09-2008, 07:51 AM
you have to take into consideration that there a a good number of "perfectionist" who go to alot of thought and trouble to form their opinions, much of this is painful and unhealthy in regards to the toll it takes on us. I'll be one to cast the fist stone as to being classified as a "Type A" personality. This blessing or curse is a basic personality trait many of us have, some adapt better than other's. It's not limited to shooter's it covers many dedicated people who " strive", and I use that word reluctantly, for perfection in most aspects of our lives. The opinions we form wether they be right or wrong depending on what side of the fence your on, are firm in our hearts and minds some of us who are capable will live longer and healthier lives if we can flex alittle or find humor in thing's that would normally p*ss us off. This adjustment could in many case's aid us in avoiding a life altering health issue.
There are obviously many good people on this forum and I'd say 95% are type A, there are some that handle it better than other's but bottom line is we're all brothers. If you care to do a google on type A personality it will enlighten you on our good and not so good aspects of our personalities.

Mr.D, I notice on a rare occasion you'll use the term "macho" in regards to some of the attitudes of the guy's on this forum and I have to say that that term offend's me and the reason for that is because I have spent aro. 10yrs., on the BR circuit and never found any shooter in BR to conduct themselves in a macho manner. Few if any shooters may seem to display that attitude but I find them highly motoviated, overzealous or just happy to be part of the brotherhood generally they calm down afer a few trips to the "wailing wall" :D
The guy's that scare me are the once or twice a year patrons who visit our clubs not to mention the public ranges, there you will find the macho gunowner nearly every visit.

Tracker
08-09-2008, 08:14 AM
I still think it was not so much what was said, it was how it was said. Think of cars driving down the street in front of your house. Nice quiet evening. Normal traffic bothers no one. Bring on the squealing tires, loud pumping music and way to fast and the neighborhoods jaw tightens and the attitudes come out. It's all in the way its presented.

axlenut
08-09-2008, 09:57 AM
I always thought polyticks was finding more than one tick crawling up your leg when hunting. Gosh, I learned something. ;)

Roger T
08-09-2008, 10:39 AM
would get my vote, but since this is Wilburs site and he's done an excellent job, do what you think is best Wilbur

Dennis Sorensen
08-09-2008, 11:54 AM
Some people look at a glass of beer as half full, other see it as half empty...;)

My guess is if people moan and groan and complain enough they can make a failure of this forum...:rolleyes:

Hopefully better topics get discussed.:)

Jay, Idaho
08-09-2008, 12:51 PM
Some folks felt that the Gunsmithing forum was not needed and would not get much activity. It has done well.
A Poli board would be fun, stay away if not interested. I'd like to see Wilbur give it a try. If there is no activity, dump it.

vicvanb
08-09-2008, 12:59 PM
If there is no activity, dump it.


Too little activity? How about too much???

RayfromTX
08-09-2008, 01:43 PM
When I come to this site I use the new post feature. It bothered me that my favorite site was over run by hateful threads that continually popped up in the new posts.

Large kudos to Wilbur for cleaning up the site and steering it back towards a pure discussion of benchrest instead of a place for 80% of us to express our animosity towards the other 20% and vice versa.

The people taking part in these discussions were largely not benchrest shooters to begin with. There are plenty of other sites that encourage this vitriol. Try the Hummer H2 website for a great collection of insulting geniuses bent on slamming those on the other side of any issue.

Thank you Wilbur. It was long overdue. Please do not supply a venue for political bickering on what otherwise is a fine site. We can find enough to argue about anyway. Shouldn't we have different classes in short range benchrest? Does a muzzle stop with a tuner? Is a march scope worth the money? Should sporter class be eliminated?

Mr. D
08-09-2008, 02:31 PM
I still think it was not so much what was said, it was how it was said. Think of cars driving down the street in front of your house. Nice quiet evening. Normal traffic bothers no one. Bring on the squealing tires, loud pumping music and way to fast and the neighborhoods jaw tightens and the attitudes come out. It's all in the way its presented.

I accept what you say as being accurate, but it applies equally to both sides of a debate. Personally, I don't feel my jaw tighten no matter what a person's opinions are until I am attacked. I have found those of the moderate liberal persuasion on this forum are attacked, maligned, insulted and even accused of being less than loyal to their country. I'm sure I have many times angered conservative members but I have never intentionally been uncivil with them. (The one exception was with you tracker when I was "tongue in cheek" giving you the bird during the time you were accusing me of lying. That's all water under the bridge!)

All I ever asked is that conservative members express their disagreements about politics, etc. with respect and courtesy for those they disagree with. As hard as it is to believe all guys that shoot, build hot rods, drive pickup trucks and wear a military uniform are not conservatives, but they are Americans! We need to start talking again in this country or we are in big trouble. It's a shame we can't do it on this forum.

I wish the moderators would just enforce civil, polite behavior instead of letting their own conservative leanings affect what is censored or deleted. Members should be warned about their uncivil, impolite and insulting language not whether or not it is too liberal and "UPSETS" some of the members. Members who are upset by political discussions should not be engaging in those discussions, yet they do!!!

The issue has always been about liberal ideas that upset members, while those who spout quite inflammatory far right ideas are tolerated.

The fact that Tracker and Mr. D can NOW talk to each other civilly as we are doing now is proof of the value of allowing politics to be discussed civilly enforced by "Impartial" moderators who only enforce rules of polite discussion, not people's political opinions. Things have improved on this forum which is just what we need to reunite this country!

Can you all not see that?

Dennis Sorensen
08-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Tell me I'm wrong! :rolleyes:

Okay, you are wrong. :D

Don
08-09-2008, 03:12 PM
Okay, you are wrong. :D

Mr. D is absolutely correct, although Dennis is the least of any problems.

Stonewall
08-09-2008, 04:39 PM
I am sorry that your life was consumed by the political bickering that was posted. It sure did not add anything to Benchrest Central... and I am sure no one changed their political mind about by what they read here.

3 cheers for Wilbur as far as I am concerned.



Good one Dennis.
Go to another site for political discussion- this was causing problems so it went away I hope.

Thank you Wilbur.


Glenn:D

Bill Wynne
08-09-2008, 06:03 PM
Taken as a whole, we have a good bunch on this site. We have businessmen, farmers and ranchers, educators, technical experts and expert craftsmen. For the most part we are family men with responsibility. We are the tax payers who fuel governments.

You would think that we could disagree without being disagreeable. That may be a skill to be learned. Too often we post on this site with an excess of passion and others react with too much passion.

In the past, when we were into politics, there were some posts that were nothing short of someone bating a trap to let a few fall into. There have been some sharp cutting words, insults, thrown around and I have tried to cut these thing out without comment.

I will tell you that I have usually vote Republican and I like to discuss politics. I have never deleted anyone who honestly held the other view. that would not be fair. I have tried to cut out the bitterness. Most of those posts were written in haste anyway.

I feel that we have made progress. I have made many friends on this site and I hope to make many more. There is little doubt that Wilbur was correct in putting a stop on political discussion on this site and it is a shame that the conditions forced his action.

Concho Bill

brad541thb
08-09-2008, 09:57 PM
I look at it like this. You can like this statement or not. But it is true as true can be. If all you care to talk about is politics here at a benchrest site, then you are at the wrong website.

Mr. D
08-10-2008, 01:16 AM
Okay, you are wrong. :D

Dennis,

You are a nice guy I am sure, but you are not objective in terms of liberal/conservative when it comes to being a moderator. I think that is very important. Obviously anyone who doesn't want to be offended or "upset" by political discussions never has to engage in them. They don't have to read the threads and argue and get upset, but they do while still complaining! So what is their complaint then? It is that they don't want any opinion other than their own expressed on this forum. They one a one party line with only their voice and opinions heard! Members should not have to choose whether to be shooters or have the freedom to talk about politics and religion. Who created that choice? This is America!

It is Wilbur's forum and property so free speech is not protected here! So you win and you have the support of many conservative members who want only one voice heard. So we'll follow the rules and not express any terrible, liberal opinions while conservatives may say whatever they wish as has been shown lately! Let's at very, very least be honest enough to admit what this really is, that is censorship rather than concerns about being uncivil and "upsetting" sensitive, conservative members!

Wilbur
08-10-2008, 04:36 AM
In another life, I was taking the plant "walkthrough" part of a senior reactor operator license exam and failed to understand a question asked by the NRC examiner. He sensed that I didn't grasp the simplicity of the question and offered a hint. With that hint and some dancing around I was able to come up with a mildly satisfactory answer. Thought I got away with it until I read the evaluation report. The examiner wrote...."candidate recognized answer when shown." I live in that context more and more these days. Any wisdom I had has been consumed by confusion.

If you'll show me where I favor one over the other I'll try to fix it.

Dennis Sorensen
08-10-2008, 06:56 AM
Dennis,

You are a nice guy I am sure, but you are not objective in terms of liberal/conservative when it comes to being a moderator. I think that is very important. Obviously anyone who doesn't want to be offended or "upset" by political discussions never has to engage in them. They don't have to read the threads and argue and get upset, but they do while still complaining! So what is their complaint then? It is that they don't want any opinion other than their own expressed on this forum. They one a one party line with only their voice and opinions heard! Members should not have to choose whether to be shooters or have the freedom to talk about politics and religion. Who created that choice? This is America!

It is Wilbur's forum and property so free speech is not protected here! So you win and you have the support of many conservative members who want only one voice heard. So we'll follow the rules and not express any terrible, liberal opinions while conservatives may say whatever they wish as has been shown lately! Let's at very, very least be honest enough to admit what this really is, that is censorship rather than concerns about being uncivil and "upsetting" sensitive, conservative members!

Oh Mr D. lighten up...

You ended your post with the statement - "Tell me I'm wrong."... so as a joke, not meant to be anything else I quoted your "Tell me I'm wrong" and immediately under it I said, "Okay, you're wrong. :D"

I would have thought the majority of people would have realized my statement was not to be taken seriously.

Lynn
08-10-2008, 07:07 AM
You are a nice guy I am sure.

Obviously anyone who doesn't want to be offended or "upset" by political discussions never has to engage in them.[/U][/B]

MrD
I heard a rumor that Dennis once kicked a puppy so your first line above may need to be detracted after you research the allegation.

As to your second point quoted above you are 100% correct.I like many other gun enthusiasts and competitors come to Benchrest Central just so we don't have to engage in politics hence the name given to the website-Benchrest Central.I would like to freely discuss guns without politics coming into
play and I would like to not have to pick and choose which threads I choose to observe because something political may be inside.This site is a politics free zone and should remain that way.

If anyone would like to discuss politics such as yourself you can easily do a google search for "Politics Central" and have your civil discourse over there no matter your political bent.
As this is indeed Benchrest Central we can freely and openly discuss any gun related topic you care to talk about free of worry about ones political background.In fact when we are talking about guns and gun related topics we don't want to know your political affiliation and it should never even come up as we are that free here.
Lynn

Paul Fielder
08-10-2008, 08:06 AM
I look at it like this. You can like this statement or not. But it is true as true can be. If all you care to talk about is politics here at a benchrest site, then you are at the wrong website.


I think that nailed it. The baiting and trolling was just getting old.

pf

<><

RStiefel
08-10-2008, 10:43 AM
Which nuke plant did you work in?

nrb
08-10-2008, 12:19 PM
I have found that every so often, a poster brings up some news item of importance and interest that is unknown to me. This is especially relevant with regards to the 2nd Amendment issues. For this reason, I request that these type items be given open display on this forum.
As for the gas and windbags, I prefer to avoid them.

best and thank you Wilbur,

nrb

vicvanb
08-10-2008, 12:44 PM
I subscribe to the idea that there were several options available to those who did not like the political threads. One was Vinny's favorite--hit the IGNORE button for those people you did not appreciate.

Or, don't read the political threads if they upset you.

Like most here, I think the rude, crude, insulting stuff had to go, but I thought that was the job of the moderators? It seemed to me the hard core rude and crude guys should have been given three strikes and then been called OUT! I mean banned after fair warning.

As I posted previously, I enjoyed the political banter, learned a few things, and even changed my mind a time or two. Maybe others learned something from me?

I am sad that a few hard core types ruined it for all the rest of us. Some people absolutely, positively think the only true and correct views are their own, and anyone who disagrees is obviously a "liberal" and wrong no matter what they say. And they just can't help insulting and name calling to refute what they find offensive.

Wilbur--I request giving us a third chance to engage in political discussions with some basic rules of conduct that if violoated will result in expulsion from the forum. Please!

Wilbur
08-10-2008, 03:21 PM
Which nuke plant did you work in?

Watts Bar
Spring City, TN

RStiefel
08-10-2008, 04:20 PM
the problems and delays caused by the "snail darter" there.

Bnhpr
08-10-2008, 08:21 PM
Oh Mr D. lighten up...

You ended your post with the statement - "Tell me I'm wrong."... so as a joke, not meant to be anything else I quoted your "Tell me I'm wrong" and immediately under it I said, "Okay, you're wrong. :D"

I would have thought the majority of people would have realized my statement was not to be taken seriously.

Dennis,

I like your sense of humor.. I was thinking the same thing.
And he took the bait, which made it all the better.

Here fishy fishy :)

Ben

Mr. D
08-10-2008, 09:12 PM
Oh Mr D. lighten up...

You ended your post with the statement - "Tell me I'm wrong."... so as a joke, not meant to be anything else I quoted your "Tell me I'm wrong" and immediately under it I said, "Okay, you're wrong. :D"

I would have thought the majority of people would have realized my statement was not to be taken seriously.

I did take it as a joke, but felt I needed to make the point anyway. It wasn't meant as a big personal attack, but just an attempt to get you to take a look at whether you are being objective. I know being a moderator is not an easy job, but it's easy for people like me to be critical.

I think the General Discussion Section provides a very important service for shooters to air their frustrations and begin to come closer to those "hated liberals". That was working after Wilbur told us to mind our manners and I hate to see you and Wilbur give up on a positive thing. Those that don't see its value should just not get into the discussions and then they will not be upset!

Lynn
08-10-2008, 09:53 PM
Those that don't see its value should just not get into the discussions and then they will not be [B][U]upset!

MrD as has been pointed out several times this is a shooting forum.If you wish to discuss politics simply find yourself a different forum.Telling viewers on a shooting forum to avoid political posts shouldn't even be mentioned or a concern.Would any of us go to a political forum and ask for help setting up a lathe or bedding a stock? I don't want to sound bitter but politics simply doesn't belong here and maybe the people seeking to bring it up on every post need to look in the mirror and ask themselves why they feel the need to disrespect Wilbur's wishes.
Lynn

brad541thb
08-10-2008, 10:04 PM
The problem is guys that this decision effects D the most. That is why he just won't let it go. That right there to anyone ought to prove why he was in fact here from the get-go.

Wilbur has rained on his parade, and now he is stomping his feet.

Life will go on D.

Dennis Sorensen
08-10-2008, 10:28 PM
I was at a flea market this morning and noticed a fellow trying to make a deal on a cheap used fan... he only needed the blade as a replacement for a broken one he owned. The fellow selling the fan of course wanted to sell the fan, not part of it...

It went on for a while with the "buyer" whining ... "but I just need the blade"...

It ended with the seller saying, "I don't give a crap about what you need."... and ended the dickering.

What is the point of posting this?

The point is one person owned the property and could do whatever he wanted to do with it... it doesn't matter what anyone else may want.... and it does no good to whine about it...

Something like Benchrest Central... only Wilbur is more of a gentleman.


.

vicvanb
08-10-2008, 10:51 PM
I don't want to sound bitter but politics simply doesn't belong here...


Seems to me that issues like the Supreme Court's decision on the second amendment are of great interest to many guys here. Is this political? Of course--if only because the president, an elected official, appoints the SCOTUS justices.

A universal ban here of all "political" issues prohibits all discussion of issues like this.

brad541thb
08-11-2008, 12:14 AM
Wilbur,

Maybe it's high time you show the ones who keeps questioning your authority that you mean business and it's not up for debate and close this puppy.

Some people know matter how politely you say it just don't know how to take no for an answer.

When Wilbur said no more politics, he didn't mean maybe a little, or every now and then. No more means no more. That means none. Now if you have a problem with that take your mouse and go elsewhere if you like. It's your choice.

Like I said this is a shooting a forum about benchrest. And a good one at that. That should be our main objective here to promote. Not politics.

Mr. D
08-11-2008, 01:37 AM
Wilbur,

Maybe it's high time you show the ones who keeps questioning your authority that you mean business and it's not up for debate and close this puppy.



It's clear that this has been your agenda from the beginning, that is to close the General Discussion Section! No one has ever disrespected or challenged Wilbur's right to control his forum. We all respect his word, so stop trying to goad Wilbur into fulfilling your agenda to shut down General Discussion and censor any opinions you don't like!

Everyone will honor Wilbur's final decision, how about letting him make it rather than you?

beemanbeme
08-11-2008, 02:17 PM
D ain't the whiner.
The whiners are the ones that want to have their say and when anyone questions what they say or proves them to be totally wrong, start in with the hey, this is a shooting room or we shouldn't discuss politics or religion or whatever or just comes with the raw abuse.
Look at the other threads that have popped up in this forum since the ban on politics. How many of them are political? Most of them right? Oh, some of them were posted "for information only", hee hee hee. But often the same old bunch wanting to have their say but without a rebuttal.
I've been lurking in this room for quite a while. Back before they had all these rooms. And pity the poor hunter or varmint shooter that blundered in and asked about a good hunting load or how to set up a varmint rifle. Then, like now, there were some really great guys that would give out some excellent, useful knowledge and gently tell the person that maybe they might be happier in xxxxx room. But there was always the same half dozen or ten that did their best to scald the hide off the poor bxxxxxd as they shamed him out the door, them being bench rest shooters and all you know. And so, Wilbur set up the different rooms so the purist wouldn't be bothered by us great unwashed. And so what happened? You followed us. If we didn't agree with whatever knee-jerk idea you had and questioned it, then we got called names and were told "this is a shooting room. Politics has no place here." It seemed to have a place until your ideas were questioned. And you told us we should go to a political room. As if you owned this room. The real question is, what are you doing over here and opening up this thread if you don't want to discuss politics? The simple truth is, you don't mind discussing politics as long as everyone agrees with you.
But let someone disagree with your position on abortion/religion/politic/ad infinitum and you go whining to Wilbur. No, D ain't the whiner.

Jay, Idaho
08-11-2008, 02:28 PM
beemanbeme,
You gonna get whupped on like you ain't never been whupped on before, for that assessment.
But it is quite accurate.

Mr. D
08-11-2008, 02:54 PM
beemanbeme,

Thanks for saying for saying what I wanted to say, but decided I'd better soften up a little! :D

tylerw02
08-11-2008, 03:05 PM
But you have to admit its odd how he doesn't address points.

chino69
08-11-2008, 03:31 PM
In another life, I was taking the plant "walkthrough" part of a senior reactor operator license exam and failed to understand a question asked by the NRC examiner. He sensed that I didn't grasp the simplicity of the question and offered a hint. With that hint and some dancing around I was able to come up with a mildly satisfactory answer. Thought I got away with it until I read the evaluation report. The examiner wrote...."candidate recognized answer when shown." I live in that context more and more these days. Any wisdom I had has been consumed by confusion.

If you'll show me where I favor one over the other I'll try to fix it.

Wilbur,
My hat's off to you as I know how grueling that test can be. I stayed out of operations for that reason and transferred to station maintenance at the first opportunity. I used to be in the Reactor Engineering group and assisted ops in all kinds of power ascensions, etc. Too much under the microscope for my taste plus I'm lazy. Never really wanted to work that hard or study that much.

As I recall, that was a dual unit PWR run by TVA?
Chino69

Rusty Carr
08-11-2008, 04:30 PM
I used to shoot bench rest, not well, got my but kicked a lot. Before that, I used to play golf passionately. i did fairly well until I started to have my back and neck problems.. I could still play a littly, but I am not willing to play as poorly as I would have to now. I gave bench rest and golf up, because I am as competitive as anyone you know. Now I love to banter back and forth with people like Mr. D. and Vicvanb. I know I am not going to change their minds, and they know they aren't going to change mine. Mr. D has never insulted me, and I have tried not to personally insult him. That's why I wish we could continue with tome politics. For goodness sakes, it's election season! Wilbur, I know it's your site, but I am asking to be allowed to continue to talk politics civily. People awho cannot honor the rule to be civil should be sanctioned. This is being done on the centerfire site with one individual. I know that there have been people banned from the site. You could give one warning and then out. As for myself, I promise to be a good boy. Thanks for at least reading this, Rusty

Paul Fielder
08-11-2008, 04:46 PM
I used to shoot bench rest, not well, got my but kicked a lot. Before that, I used to play golf passionately. i did fairly well until I started to have my back and neck problems.. I could still play a littly, but I am not willing to play as poorly as I would have to now. I gave bench rest and golf up, because I am as competitive as anyone you know. Now I love to banter back and forth with people like Mr. D. and Vicvanb. I know I am not going to change their minds, and they know they aren't going to change mine. Mr. D has never insulted me, and I have tried not to personally insult him. That's why I wish we could continue with tome politics. For goodness sakes, it's election season! Wilbur, I know it's your site, but I am asking to be allowed to continue to talk politics civily. People awho cannot honor the rule to be civil should be sanctioned. This is being done on the centerfire site with one individual. I know that there have been people banned from the site. You could give one warning and then out. As for myself, I promise to be a good boy. Thanks for at least reading this, Rusty

....I enjoy a good ribbing as long as it stays clean and I also agree know one will wake up and change minds. Politics if just tough & we have seen the baiting and trolling. Unless the banned enforcement is in place, I'm afraid it will get dirty again. I 'think' this is what Wilbur wants to avoid but just a wild guess.

I'm open one way or the other as I can play elsewhere to get my fix but totally understand why many forums do not allow certain topics. It's all up to the owner of the forum and how much policing needs to be done. There are certain issues going on that I would love to hear from some of you guys but it will get nasty again....it always does.

pf

<><

RStiefel
08-11-2008, 05:04 PM
It remains in service. Only unit one is active. TVA never put unit two on line. I believe it was never completed. If I remember correctly, they didn't need the additional power.

Wilbur
08-11-2008, 10:59 PM
Wilbur,
As I recall, that was a dual unit PWR run by TVA?
Chino69


Yes, unit 2 was placed on hold until recently. I suppose somebody forgot the extra few billion it cost to get unit 1 on line.

Mr. D
08-12-2008, 01:10 AM
.... we have seen the baiting and trolling. Unless the banned enforcement is in place,

pf

<><

Baiting and trolling is in the eye of the beholder and often just claimed because we don't like the comment. I suggest we not try to use a crystal ball to determine people's motives in posts and just deal with whether their language is civil and respectful. When it is not they sure be warned and then sanctioned if they continue to be insulting.

Isn't that the real issue?

Lynn
08-12-2008, 06:00 AM
I am just guessing here but surely everyone is thinking the Oakland Raiders will win the Supebowl this year.Clearly they will view there tapes from last season and not make the same mistakes again.
I also think when your making homemade Italian Sausage the biggest secret to a great recipe is soaking the seasonings in the red wine for several hours.This allows the flavors a better distribution and truly makes the best sausage.
If Nascar allowed exotic metal parts instead of insisting on there magnet test the teams could really get some impressive dyno numbers.14 pound titanium cranks would not be unheard of and without the extra stress a heavier crank puts on the bottom end durability wouldn't be an issue.
Does anybody know a good website on natural child birth? I am wanting to paint my jeep for the upcoming deer season and thought I would ask what temperature reducer I should be using in this heat.I'm not sure if I'll use a desert camoflague pattern or not.I will follow there advice.
Lynn

chino69
08-12-2008, 06:10 AM
It remains in service. Only unit one is active. TVA never put unit two on line. I believe it was never completed. If I remember correctly, they didn't need the additional power.

There are a number of cancelled nuclear units of that vintage that were never completed. Hope Creek Unit 2 in New Jersey, The Fulton plant in PA. are just two that come to mind. Ironic that we are now talking about a resurgence of nuclear power to meet our growing energy demands. We may see some of these cancelled units coming back as the new generation of reactors that has been on the dwg. boards for awhile. After all, the construction permits and the environmental studies were already performed for the cancelled units which will save money.
Chino69

RStiefel
08-12-2008, 09:59 AM
Along with completing the moth balled units, the NRC and Bechtel need to make the new plants mirror images of each other.

chino69
08-12-2008, 10:53 AM
Along with completing the moth balled units, the NRC and Bechtel need to make the new plants mirror images of each other.

This has been tossed around for at least two decades; generic design and construction of pre-licensed units. The problem in the U.S., as you are well aware, is that we have different designs and contractors who built these plants. There are PWR's and BWR's, each with their own nuclear steam supply systems which are either General Electric, Westinghouse, Babcock & Wilcox, or Combustion Engineering. Then there are the contractors who build the plants; Bechtel, United Engineers, Sargeant & Lundy, Fluor, Kellogg, etc.

I don't care much for the French but they have run their nuclear program intelligently and efficiently. Most of their plants are the same common design. They can utilize the same parts, procedures, maintenance crews, fuel, etc. Everything we have is one of a kind custom which drives the operating costs up.
Chino69

Mr. D
08-12-2008, 05:57 PM
I am just guessing here but surely everyone is thinking the Oakland Raiders will win the Supebowl this year.Clearly they will view there tapes from last season and not make the same mistakes again.
I also think when your making homemade Italian Sausage the biggest secret to a great recipe is soaking the seasonings in the red wine for several hours.This allows the flavors a better distribution and truly makes the best sausage.
If Nascar allowed exotic metal parts instead of insisting on there magnet test the teams could really get some impressive dyno numbers.14 pound titanium cranks would not be unheard of and without the extra stress a heavier crank puts on the bottom end durability wouldn't be an issue.
Does anybody know a good website on natural child birth? I am wanting to paint my jeep for the upcoming deer season and thought I would ask what temperature reducer I should be using in this heat.I'm not sure if I'll use a desert camoflague pattern or not.I will follow there advice.
Lynn

All interesting subjects to someone! I'm glad you have such wide interests! :D So how would the discussion of any of these subjects harm you????? :confused:

DWM Jr
08-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Ain't it funny how political discussions on a forum founded on anything related to guns or shooting can destroy the entire forum. I don't think I'm alone on this,I believe there must be others who have seen otherwise great gun/shooting based forums just fade away because of the political bull dung. There are any number of forums that cater to this stuff and I suggest that is exactly where it belongs. Just my 2 cents. Don

vicvanb
08-12-2008, 07:32 PM
d ain't the whiner.
The whiners are the ones that want to have their say and when anyone questions what they say or proves them to be totally wrong, start in with the hey, this is a shooting room or we shouldn't discuss politics or religion or whatever or just comes with the raw abuse.
Look at the other threads that have popped up in this forum since the ban on politics. How many of them are political? Most of them right? Oh, some of them were posted "for information only", hee hee hee. But often the same old bunch wanting to have their say but without a rebuttal.
I've been lurking in this room for quite a while. Back before they had all these rooms. And pity the poor hunter or varmint shooter that blundered in and asked about a good hunting load or how to set up a varmint rifle. Then, like now, there were some really great guys that would give out some excellent, useful knowledge and gently tell the person that maybe they might be happier in xxxxx room. But there was always the same half dozen or ten that did their best to scald the hide off the poor bxxxxxd as they shamed him out the door, them being bench rest shooters and all you know. And so, wilbur set up the different rooms so the purist wouldn't be bothered by us great unwashed. And so what happened? You followed us. If we didn't agree with whatever knee-jerk idea you had and questioned it, then we got called names and were told "this is a shooting room. Politics has no place here." it seemed to have a place until your ideas were questioned. And you told us we should go to a political room. As if you owned this room. The real question is, what are you doing over here and opening up this thread if you don't want to discuss politics? The simple truth is, you don't mind discussing politics as long as everyone agrees with you.
But let someone disagree with your position on abortion/religion/politic/ad infinitum and you go whining to wilbur. No, d ain't the whiner.

Amen Bro'

vicvanb
08-12-2008, 11:00 PM
Got it and sent a PM reply (I hope). Let me know if you don't get it.

Lynn
08-13-2008, 01:02 AM
D ain't the whiner.
I've been lurking in this room for quite a while. Back before they had all these rooms. And pity the poor hunter or varmint shooter that blundered in and asked about a good hunting load or how to set up a varmint rifle. Then, like now, there were some really great guys that would give out some excellent, useful knowledge and gently tell the person that maybe they might be happier in xxxxx room. But there was always the same half dozen or ten that did their best to scald the hide off the poor bxxxxxd as they shamed him out the door, them being bench rest shooters and all you know. And so, Wilbur set up the different rooms so the purist wouldn't be bothered by us great unwashed. And so what happened? You followed us.

The real question is, what are you doing over here and opening up this thread if you don't want to discuss politics


Beemanbeme
To get here you typed in BENCHREST.com on your keypad.
You were then greeted by this slogan-The absolute source of accuracy components,services,accessories and information for the precision shooter.
You then clicked on BENCHREST Forums.
Once there YOU chose firearms topics not related to benchrest.
The owner of the website has asked EVERYBODY not to post about politics.
Please take 5 minutes out of your schedule to look up benchrest shooting.You typed it in or clicked it several times to get here but for some reason don't understand what it means.

I too was here before and saw posters placing threads that are inappropriate to BENCHREST central.Wilbur took pity on them and in the spirit of promoting the shooting sports set up the new format we see today.As to your claim we followed you here you must of course be joking right?
The 6ppc board kept getting 35 Whelen questions on the centerfire BENCHREST forum.When asked why they wouldn't post on the factory/hybrid forum they complained they weren't getting high quality answers like they received on the centerfire BENCHREST forum.Wilbur suggested that some of the regulars look in on the various forums and help promote the shooting sports.
You are now complaining we followed you-give me a break!!!!!!
This forum clearly states firearms related topics not related to benchrest.You got your wish and now you want it to change to POLITICS central.Please observe who is supprting this website on the home page.It is supported by firearms manufacturers not political pundents.
If you truly wanted to talk politics which you don't you would simply go to the APPROPRIATE website.You don't do that because that is not what you are after.You are after control plain and simple.When ou get your way the first thing you do is change your mind.You are not whiners but I have too much respect for Wilbur to tell you what you truly are.
Lynn

Mr. D
08-13-2008, 03:53 AM
...... I have too much respect for Wilbur to tell you what you truly are.
Lynn

Lynn,

Thanks for a perfect example of the type of impolite remark that has caused all the problem on this forum! Yet, you blame me and others when all we've done it to politely ask Wilbur to reconsider and allow us to discuss politics, etc. Somehow you think this harms you in some way you never explain except to say that this is a forum for benchrest shooting as if that means discussing anything else is a crime that harms you.

I have not discussed political topics since Wilbur asked us not to do so. I have only made arguments to get him to reconsider changing his mind and merely enforcing civil and polite discussion. Some conservative members have continued to post political comments, but that is Wilbur's call not mine.

You have repeatedly made the point you don't want anyone to have the right to make political statements that are not right wing and in line with your views, but you don't have to insult me and others while doing it! We understand your agenda with out the uncivil comments! So how about being polite?? :rolleyes:

j mckinnie
08-13-2008, 04:00 AM
wats so hard 2 letter word NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO :confused:NO?

Mr. D
08-13-2008, 04:14 AM
wats so hard 2 letter word NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO :confused:NO?

A lot of people like you speak for Wilbur around here! Read Wilbur's last post! It did not express the NO NO, you'd like it to! When Wilbur tells those who would like to be able to discuss what they care to freely to shut up and let it die, we will do so in respect for his rights! (Of course Wilbur will say it politely!) Until then, I'll take direction on this issue from Wilbur rather than from all those who don't want to hear anything but a far right opinions that still get posted!

Dennis Sorensen
08-13-2008, 07:48 AM
Some people just have to keep picking at one another or at an idea for ever...

Can't you all just let it go and talk about something new...?

bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker:rolleyes:

J. Valentine
08-13-2008, 07:57 AM
Think very hard before you close down general discussion because this thread could have be on the centerfire benchrest forum. Poor Wilbur would be up all night deleting posts

jaybic
08-13-2008, 08:38 AM
I am almost sure this is the most stupid thing ever. Because the right to argue was taken away by the very person with the authority so do so, we now have a thread that is arguing the right to argue. And its the same people on the same sides. Brilliant!

It seems to me that nearly everyone with an opposing point of view to your own is ok in letting this go but you are not. After the "no more politics" post the remaining General Discussion "regulars" found other things to talk about, and some folks lurked in the shadows, waiting to pounce on a thread that they deemed "POLITICAL" and then cry FOUL. Some of these posts that you and others have declared to be in violation, never mention any politcal party or candidate or issue. If you can go back and find in any post since the warning was given, I will gladly admit I am mistaken.

On the thinnest of ice or by any connection, no matter how week, you want these posts to be political so you can have a cause again. You need that torch to carry an must fight on behalf of the injustice you have endured.

If I want to bad enough, I can make any subject politcal. Baby rattles, kleenex boxes, pop,....you name it....and I will make it politcal so that whole "WILBER... theyre talking political again but wont let me talk" thing dont fly! The only way for it not to be is simply no conversation at all.

I believe that some revel in conflict and discontent and maybe you fall into this, maybe not, but it is very apparent that you REALLY miss a forum that will allow you to argue.

BTW, why are you the first guy, even on this thread to reach for the BOLD, BLACK type and all the underlining? As an educated man you know about internet protocol and yet you are the only one shouting.

My apologies to anyone I have offended as I was not my intent. Simply my observations over time.

Jamie

tomgrace50
08-13-2008, 12:49 PM
i dont agree with d very often - but i do agree this time - what makes general discussion so popular is the disagreements we have -- remember it is general discussion

Lynn
08-13-2008, 02:02 PM
-- remember it is general discussion

Tom
Please look more closely when you log into the site.It clearly says for all interested enough to read it.
General Discussion-Firearms Topics Not Related To Benchrest.
It does not now nor has it ever said.
General Discussion-Talk About Anything You Want
Please look at the opening page here as I am not making this stuff up.
Lynn

tomgrace50
08-13-2008, 04:03 PM
sorry lyn you can talk about any thing you want as long as it is not politics ---just a few -- book recomendations, over inflated tires, olypics, fuel economy ,fire fox etc, etc

Paul Fielder
08-13-2008, 04:28 PM
...Wilbur has already stated on another thread he is kicking the tires & needs some time. Let's let this thread die and see what the boss man comes up with & honor it. Fair enough??

Here is the copy and paste from Wilbur for the 'potential solution & overdue explanation':

pf
<><


It doesn't have anything to do with freedom of speech, censorship, favoritism, my view, your view or any of those perceived reasons. It has everything to do (and little else) with the advertisers that have their name pasted at the top of every page. That's not an alias up there! It's their real name and their real livelihood. They didn't sign up to advertise on a political web site. They signed up to advertise on Benchrest Central - "The Absolute Source of Accuracy Components, Services, Accessories,and Information for the Precision Shooter". Unspoken at the time of agreement, I assumed they entrusted me in a general sense to protect them from averse content. Certainly, opinion varies greatly as to what constitutes averse content and there's the rub.

This is pretty good software and it has features to solve this problem. Give me a week or so....

Lynn
08-13-2008, 04:30 PM
Tom
I wasn't picking on you just pointing out an error in your post.Your not saying I was wrong are you?

It's also not my website and it doesn't pay my bills.

Wilbur has asked very politely for the political to be dropped and I see no reason to disrespect him.You can treat people anyway you wish.
Lynn

Yote
08-13-2008, 07:54 PM
...Wilbur has already stated on another thread he is kicking the tires & needs some time. Let's let this thread die and see what the boss man comes up with & honor it. Fair enough??


pf
<><



Very well said Paul.

This thread has run its course. There are those who would like to have political discussions but are they not respecting Wilbur's wishes? I haven't seen any political threads started and being discussed since Wilbur laid down the law. Since this is the case, I don't know why so many people are in a tissy and keep posting that there shouldn't be political threads when there aren't any.

tillroot1
08-13-2008, 08:04 PM
...Wilbur has already stated on another thread he is kicking the tires & needs some time. Let's let this thread die and see what the boss man comes up with & honor it. Fair enough??

Here is the copy and paste from Wilbur for the 'potential solution & overdue explanation':

pf
<><


It doesn't have anything to do with freedom of speech, censorship, favoritism, my view, your view or any of those perceived reasons. It has everything to do (and little else) with the advertisers that have their name pasted at the top of every page. That's not an alias up there! It's their real name and their real livelihood. They didn't sign up to advertise on a political web site. They signed up to advertise on Benchrest Central - "The Absolute Source of Accuracy Components, Services, Accessories,and Information for the Precision Shooter". Unspoken at the time of agreement, I assumed they entrusted me in a general sense to protect them from averse content. Certainly, opinion varies greatly as to what constitutes averse content and there's the rub.

This is pretty good software and it has features to solve this problem. Give me a week or so....

Wilbur, I appreciate that you are a patient man, I am not tho, its pretty simple to me what you asked of us all, and you asked politely. My dad used to say that no means exactly that! NO. Sometimes that could be the fix in some situations and sometimes not. I like this site that you have and thank you for it. I have gained alot of knowledge from here and appreciate the wisdom and opinions shared when I asked questions. And I like offering my experinces when I feel that I may have something to offer that may help. I come here at least once a day sometimes 5 times a day. Again thank you! Ron Tilley

Mr. D
08-14-2008, 01:12 AM
Very well said Paul.

This thread has run its course. There are those who would like to have political discussions but are they not respecting Wilbur's wishes? I haven't seen any political threads started and being discussed since Wilbur laid down the law. Since this is the case, I don't know why so many people are in a tissy and keep posting that there shouldn't be political threads when there aren't any.

Yote,

I respectfully disagree because "The Middle Class" thread was a conservatively oriented political thread. I do agree with you that it has all been said by both sides and we should drop these discussions and wait for Wilbur to "tinker with the forum software" and then respect his final decision.



As Wilbur put it, "This is pretty good software and it has features to solve this problem. Give me a week or so...."

tomgrace50
08-14-2008, 07:01 AM
i agree -- do your thing wilber