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Wilbur
07-29-2008, 01:37 AM
Those political discussions seem hard on everybody.

JJ-IA
08-08-2008, 06:27 PM
How about changing the forum heading to this?

General Benchrest
For the unregistered Club level & Home Range benchrest shooter.
Share your ideas, inventions, triumphs and failures here!



Forum Rules from a forum with 10-million posts, 10-points gets you banned.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/wlist.php?

Here are a few from that list that would solve a lot of problems.

“Offensive content (Flatulence) Flatulence is when a user brings up an off-topic issue, such as politics, within the course of an on-topic discussion. Please keep all content in its proper place.”

“Offensive content (Personal info) The post contains an email address, phone number, street address, or other private information about another individual. We do not allow the posting of this information because once it is indexed by the search engines it may cause a person annoyances in the form of spam, telemarketing calls, etc. Note that it is acceptable to provide the public with a user's real name and general locale (e.g. "someuser is really Joe Smith from Chicago").”

“Trolling (Group attack) The post contains an attack against the intelligence, character, or appearance of a group of users.”

“Trolling (Widespread) Posting obnoxiously in multiple forums or threads with the intention of distracting the userbase and annoying moderators”

“Personal Attack The author has attacked another user's intelligence, character, or appearance.”

Rusty Carr
08-09-2008, 08:48 AM
It's your web site, and I don't ;have a problem with you running it as you see fit, but it is Not hard on everybody. aThere are a number of us who enjoy a spirited debate. If sometimes it gets a little too spirited, well, thats not all that bad. If you don't like it, don't look at it. How are the number of views now vs. when it was more political. That's just my opinion, and I don't own the site. I have A tremendous amount of respect for Wilbur. Unlike a number of others I have actually dealt with him on issues pertaining to benchrest, and he always seemed to come up with a solution to what seemed to be a complex problem. Therefore, I can only ask, with respect, let us have our fun and debate. It is election season, and politics are a big topic of discussion wherever a group of men gather. Thanks, Rusty Carr

Mr. D
08-10-2008, 01:42 AM
Wilbur,

Here's a brainstorm to solve the problem of political discussion I'd like you to consider:


(1.) Please suggest that those easily "upset" by opinions that disagree with their own should stop reading the political threads! They are very easy to spot!

(2.) Please suggest that those easily "upset" by opinions that disagree with their own should stop responding to the political threads and then crying to you when everyone doesn't accept their opinions.

(3.) Please ask moderators to moderate uncivil, impolite, rude, prejudicial and labeling behavior rather than filtering out opinions that disagree with their own. We need objective moderators to keep the discussions civil and adult, not censors to tell us which thoughts are approved of!

Have you ever had a person like myself that is a shooter who is sort of a middle of the road, moderate liberal cry to you to stop the conservative opinions that make up the vast majority of the posts! No! Why not? Because I'm a big boy and I believe in freedom of thought and speech. If my ideas can't stand a debate then they must be pretty weak! I am very aware that freedom of speech is not guaranteed on privately owned forums, but it is a nice goal in when we have a 1st Amendment in your constitution and need to get our country talking to each other again!

Note that Tracker and the Senior Jarhead are now even talking to the hated Mr. D in a civil and adult way! Isn't that a good thing that you are giving up on!



Thanks for a great forum Wilbur! I'm here to enjoy it and add to it, not to harm it!

brad541thb
08-10-2008, 02:19 AM
Please, no more politics


Those political discussions seem hard on everybody.

What about this makes it hard for a person to understand.

Wilbur, perhaps you need to be a little more specific. :confused:

nrb
08-10-2008, 10:14 AM
I have found that every so often, a poster brings up some news item of importance and interest that is unknown to me. This is especially relevant with regards to the 2nd Amendment issues. For this reason, I request that these type items be given open display on this forum.
As for the gas and windbags, I prefer to avoid them.

best and thank you Wilbur,

nrb

Crusader
08-10-2008, 05:01 PM
The second amendment is absolutely meaningless with out the first amendment.

If BRC attempts further bans on political speech.. (such as its wiping of the General Discussion Forum) Then it fully deserves to be taken off the internet when someone in the government in some future date decides that a forum dedicated to what they will describe as deadly accurate weapons of assasination decides that forum such as Bench Rest Central are to "HARD ON EVERYONE" because everyone knows that only a subversive or assassin would want a gun capable of hitting targets at 1000 yds.

Your heading down a slippery slope Wilbur!!!!!!!!!

Paul Fielder
08-10-2008, 05:27 PM
....I have been discussing Russia/Georgia, Islamic terrorists, College football, the Olympics and Oil on other forums I visit that are gun related and they all attract 1 or 2 trolls but I still play.

If BRC does not want them here, who is anyone to tell Wilbur where he is wrong & affecting your 1st or 2nd ammendments?? That's nonsense!!

Maybe the businesses who advertise have issues.....it's not our play ground. Everyone knows I'm ready to play but I prefer this site w/out & agree.

pf

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Mr. D
08-10-2008, 09:37 PM
brad541thb and Wilbur

Unless I've missed something, I've seen no one trying to tell Wilbur that he has to do about anything. All I've seen is different people express different points of view to Wilbur understanding very well that the choice is of course his.

Evidently you don't even like people being able to express their opinions about expressing their political opinions.

Since you are not required to read any thread you don't want to, what is your dog in the fight! Do you just want to shut anyone up who might disagree with your point of view.

It seems like the issue started out because of uncivil, angry, impolite language being used. That problem has gotten much, much better after Wilbur's needed warning! Now, some people have used that issue of uncivil language to try to just shut up any member who they personally don't agree with, i.e. non conservatives!

If Wilbur does not want any polite political opinions by non conservatives he may say so in those very words and we will sadly comply as it is his forum.

My impression was that Wibur was more concerned with the uncivil name calling and childish bickering that has been much reduced after his warning than trying to censor the forum for people's thoughts. Their are others with that goal!!!!!

Set me straight Wilbur, if need be! :eek:

The Big Question: (1.)Do you want no liberal opinions regarding political discussion that will "upset" people, or (2.) Do you just want us all to behave like "big people" and cut out the childish bickering and name calling?

(Obviously the conservatives are still discussing politics on the thread "The Middle Class!", but those that have different opinions are trying to avoid breaking the rules!) We may post about the rules of this section as I am doing, but cannot speak about politics! :eek:

I think our behavior has improved greatly since your warning, don't you? :)

Dennis Sorensen
08-10-2008, 10:34 PM
I was at a flea market this morning and noticed a fellow trying to make a deal on a cheap used fan... he only needed the blade as a replacement for a broken one he owned. The fellow selling the fan of course wanted to sell the fan, not part of it...

It went on for a while with the "buyer" whining ... "but I just need the blade"...

It ended with the seller saying, "I don't give a crap about what you need."... and ended the dickering.

What is the point of posting this?

The point is one person owned the property and could do whatever he wanted to do with it... it doesn't matter what anyone else may want.... and it does no good to whine about it...

Something like Benchrest Central... only Wilbur is more of a gentleman.

Mr. D
08-11-2008, 02:00 AM
Dennis,

Your cute stories aside, Wilbur is quite well educated and able to speak for himself! Let him do so!

brad541thb
08-11-2008, 02:27 AM
D,

I myself have nothing against you as a person. Your views as I have said and the majority here have politely told you don't wash well with others. Therein lies the whole problem and the reason why your main forum here has been washed away with politics. Go look at all your posts here and maybe 1% if that were gun related. Now remember that your posts count took a big hit since Wilbur cleaned up the general discussion forum. You were on a record political agenda apparently the way you were racking up the posts count. You were turning more posts than my truck turns rpms. :D Now the sad point is that every political post that you were involved in led pretty much to a heated discussion. Why is that? I'll tell you why. Because when there was a political post, you were pretty much in it adding your 2 cents that just made more people say who in the heck is this guy. Now I would be a fool to say it was all your fault. It wasn't. We as a whole were to blame. But again you have to ask yourself this question. Where was I when trouble was brewing? Who spent more time in the political discussions than anyone on here? I wouldn't have a clue to who that was would you D?

If you remember early on, I defended your honor for I thought even though your maybe a little too political that others seemed to always want to jump at you. I stood up for you. But then I also told you as a friend that you need to ease up on the political posts and things would ease the tension amongst others views on how they took you on your political views. You never listened and kept on doing what you do best. Laying more on and on, never minding the fact that you are in fact on a benchrest site with the majority of people here are going to be more conservative and see things different. But again, you kept pushing your political twisted agenda. All along you could have been spending more time either reading about guns or posting about guns to ease the so called burden of being in more political posts. For someone who doesn't like benchrest, a person has got to ask what the heck are you doing here since you have nothing to contribute towards this type of site in the first place? For someone who says they never did do this or that to make matters worse, I ask you this question. Who do you think the police or going to come looking for when your always the one standing in front of a bank when it is being robbed? For someone who claims to avoid trouble, you sure seem to always be amongst the midst of things here. Now I think most folks who visited the general discussion forum can clearly see that fact.

Now you have been stripped of your life as you know it with no more politics. You can't seem to take it. The simple fact to me, how you keep disputing or questioning Wilbur's decision here shows why you in fact came here in the first place. You didn't come here to contribute anything about guns. Your post count proves that.

Go seek a political website. You will be better off.

And if you truly are so worried about what is best for this country, go run for a political office position where you can really make a difference.

Jetmugg
08-11-2008, 07:19 AM
Dennis,

Your cute stories aside, Wilbur is quite well educated and able to speak for himself! Let him do so!


Wilbur has already spoken. Open your ears and eyes, he even used the magic word. "Please, no more politics" is the title of this thread, and it was posted by Wilbur, the owner of this site.

How much more clear can it be?

SteveM.

Mr. D
08-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Brad541thb,

(1.) I respect your opinions and direct comments to me. You delivered a well written and honest appraisal of your opinion of me, but what it still boils down to is that being one of the few middle of the road semi liberal voices on the forum I posted more than others to balance some of the very conservative views expressed by the majority. That as Wilbur said "upset' the very conservative that think this forum is only for those on the far right. I did not come to this forum to just post political comments. I came to pick up tips on accuracy shooting. I don't post much on shooting topics because frankly most have greater knowledge on the topics and I have little to ad, so I just read them. I do post on some issues such as the recent 380 LCP and 6mm loadthread because I have some direct experience with the topic.

(2.) The question still remains unanswered is why some members can't bear to have posts made that discuss the other side of an issue and feel the need to attack or drive off such members??? Why can't they discuss the issue civilly or simply ignore the thread if it upsets them???

(3.) As to some member's charge that we are disrespecting Wilbur, that is a cheap, inaccurate shot as usual! The non conservative members have not discussed political issues, but the conservative whiners continue to do so at will!

What we have simply done is to make a case to Wilbur to reconsider allowing political topics or make a separate section for political topics so the easily "upset" who can't abide hearing opinions that are not their own can stay out of it and stop their whining!

I don't know Wilbur as some of you do, but he is obviously a well educated and very fair man who writes very well and can express himself. I suspect he is taking this all in and one day he will make a decision that will allow for free political discussion or tell the non conservative minority to give up on their hopes. Either way I will obey his decision.

No hard feelings Brad, we just disagree. One of these days I'll have to hook up my travel trailer to the Chevy diesel, put on my bullet proof vest and attend one of your benchrest competitions to see some of you guys in person! My best friend and shooting buddy was the Range Master in Reno, NV for many years so I used to watch some minor competitions up there. All of my field weight rifles shoot between 3/8th and 1/2 inch at 100 yds and my 17 HMR shot .166 at 50 meters, so that isn't bad for a non conservative, non benchrest competitor! Think how good I'd be if I was a Conservative Republican! :D

Yote
08-11-2008, 03:51 PM
Brad541thb,

Think how good I'd be if I was a Conservative Republican! :D


I don't know but I would like to see that!!:eek::D;)

You're really alright D, I don't care what the rest say about ya.:rolleyes:

lriner
08-11-2008, 11:18 PM
I got up this morning,went to the rest room,flushed the toilet and it emptied into a septic system the government told me I had to have that was compatible with the amount of land I own.Then I went to the chicken houses and had a training session (the government told me I had to do it and document it) with my daughter who works for me 1\2 day.Then we went about our daily chores just the way our government told us to do,you know,they tell us how to kill our cull chickens according to the wishes of PETA,how to dispose of our dead chickens,it rained today so I have to document the rain fall,you know,the way our gov. told us to do it.By the way,I just registered my incinerator,100 dollars to get permission to own it,3weeks work filling out 14 pages of insanity,sending copies to three different TCEQ offices just to register an incinerator model #DV-100-TX.Every day that I get up and go Pee,I'll probably break some kind of law.Went and shot my rifles this evening,one governmental group says I don't have the right to own a firearm,another group says its my constitutional right.My point is --a Swedish lady wrote some kind of book about freedom and she said"If you Americans think you are so free,why do you have a law governing every thing you do?"Wilbur it's your sight and I love it,love the people,they are good people,but I don't how in the heck we can't talk about anything that doesn't have politics connected to it somewhere or another.Didn't mean to get long winded,lr

Mr. D
08-12-2008, 01:04 AM
I don't know but I would like to see that!!:eek::D;)

You're really alright D, I don't care what the rest say about ya.:rolleyes:

Please tell my wife that! :D

Wilbur
08-12-2008, 01:21 AM
It doesn't have anything to do with freedom of speech, censorship, favoritism, my view, your view or any of those perceived reasons. It has everything to do (and little else) with the advertisers that have their name pasted at the top of every page. That's not an alias up there! It's their real name and their real livelihood. They didn't sign up to advertise on a political web site. They signed up to advertise on Benchrest Central - "The Absolute Source of Accuracy Components, Services, Accessories,and Information for the Precision Shooter". Unspoken at the time of agreement, I assumed they entrusted me in a general sense to protect them from averse content. Certainly, opinion varies greatly as to what constitutes averse content and there's the rub.

This is pretty good software and it has features to solve this problem. Give me a week or so....

Wilbur
08-12-2008, 02:01 AM
In one sense, this is "my site" only because I have the keys to the liquor cabinet. I have the power to make it die.

In another sense, this is "your site", because you have the power to make it both live or die.

So.....who's on first?

Rusty Carr
08-12-2008, 07:33 AM
Thanks for the explanation. Just a point though, I read the centerfire forum every day. But I would not read this forum if not for the political discussion, therefore, the new readership would decrease by ont (on this forum). That's one less to see their adds. Thanks, and don't let my smart alecness ruin our friendship, thanks, Rusty

jcwit
08-12-2008, 11:04 AM
Used to visit this forum several times daily, and only got really involved in one discussion re: the news on Kennedy brain cancer. Had mde other remarks here and there but never got really into it. Anyway now I only visit once every 2-3 days, my loss maybe but your sponsers loss also. As a whole I liked the exchange of ideas and different persectives, and when things got a little heated, well so be it. This idea that the world is sopposed to be nicy nice just doesn't cut it it don't work that way. As we all know the world isn't fair.

Wilbur
08-12-2008, 12:13 PM
.... This idea that the world is sopposed to be nicy nice just doesn't cut it it don't work that way. As we all know the world isn't fair.

It does cut it, and it works just fine. Can't argue with that last sentence.

Wilbur
08-12-2008, 01:50 PM
You're gonna have to do better than that to damage our friendship. Actually, I don't think you have the means to accomplish that.

jcwit
08-12-2008, 01:57 PM
Well I did without for 65 years so I doubt doing without longer will not bother me either. Toddle Do

Mr. D
08-12-2008, 05:54 PM
It doesn't have anything to do with freedom of speech, censorship, favoritism, my view, your view or any of those perceived reasons. It has everything to do (and little else) with the advertisers that have their name pasted at the top of every page. That's not an alias up there! It's their real name and their real livelihood. They didn't sign up to advertise on a political web site.

This is pretty good software and it has features to solve this problem. Give me a week or so....

Wilbur,

Thanks for the explanation! I suspected that was the issue all along, but wanted to hear it directly from you. I, and I'm sure everyone else will play by what ever rules you must set to make the forum a success.

A good point was made that having other areas of discussion does increase membership and the amount of hits for advertising purposes.

I'm interested to see what you have in mind as related to working with the software. I would think having a separate room "only for those who enjoy political discussion" should solve some problems. If person goes into a video store and sees a door that says "Adult Videos" they should not enter and then complain about being offended. They were not forced to enter!
:D No, before someone say's it I'm not equating political discussion with XXX rated movies! I have absolutely no knowledge of what adult movies might contain! ;)

Lynn
08-12-2008, 07:58 PM
I, and I'm sure everyone else will play by what ever rules you must set to make the forum a success.
I would think having a separate room "only for those who enjoy political discussion" should solve some problems. If person goes into a video store and sees a door that says "Adult Videos" they should not enter and then complain about being offended. They were not forced to enter!


MrD
Please read your first line from your own quote.You are the one who is not following the rules.
When your done with that please read the second part I quoted from YOU.You are in a firearms forum right now doing something that Wilbur has patiently asked you to stop doing.
It appears you refuse to follow any rules or guidelines what so ever.Please take 5 minutes out of your busy schedule and look up the word "Appropriate".
Nobody here wants to scuddle your second ammendmant rights we merely want you to share your vast political knowledge on the "Appropriate" forum.
I feel you are either a very bitter person or simply don't undertand exactly were you are at.I don't mean any disrespect by that as I know people that have learning disorders and might get here accidentaly.The purpose of this forum can be found under its heading.
It clearly states-Firearms Related Topics.
If I may are you from New York by any chance?
Lynn

Bill Wynne
08-12-2008, 08:19 PM
Actually, I don't like to see a bunch of rules posted. We are mostly adults here. I think we all know when someone is being cutting and that is where the line is crossed. Civility is all that separates us from animals. If in discussions we resort to insults we have crossed that line.

It may be that it is not possible to discuss politics and remain civil. I suggest that before we respond to a post in haste, we should cool off. That being said, I cannot for the life of me, understand why everyone doesn't think like me.

Why would anyone ever ask anyone if they were from New York City. If the fellow is not, those are fighting words and if he is he will tell you in a minute.

Concho Bill

Lynn
08-12-2008, 08:53 PM
Bill
In an earlier post it was clearly pointed out that this site is firearms related and not about politics.Everybody was nicely asked by Wilbur not just MrD to stop.He has since then started a recruiting campaign to get it re-enlisted.If that isn't whining to get your way I don't know what is.
As to the New York question that is a valid question and I can't see it as envoking any kind of mass rioting or fighting.I met someone from New York once who sounds scary similar to MrD's posts.
For those that are still confused please look under the headings and you will see why the various forums exist.
Lynn

Yote
08-12-2008, 08:56 PM
You know, people are funny creatures. In the two threads "Please no more politics" and "the end of general discussion" there have been 88 posts between them. These threads are about having no politics in general discussion. Are not these political threads in themselves? Politics or not having politics discussed here is what we are posting about.

Yet, I see alot of posters I've never seen here before posting on this subject. 88 posts...........this number of hits puts everything else in general discussion to shame.


Hmmmm................:confused:

Yote
08-12-2008, 09:05 PM
It clearly states-Firearms Related Topics.


Well if you go by that, then there goes about 90% of the threads in general discussion.

There's been more talk about ethanol, fuel mileage, tire inflation, and nuclear reactors than guns.

alinwa
08-12-2008, 10:04 PM
Concho Bill you are my new role model :D:D:D


"I cannot for the life of me, understand why everyone doesn't think like me."


priceless


al

vicvanb
08-12-2008, 10:48 PM
If I may are you from New York by any chance?


If memory serves, he's from California--which is even worse!

Just kidding, D.

Paul Fielder
08-12-2008, 10:51 PM
In one sense, this is "my site" only because I have the keys to the liquor cabinet. I have the power to make it die.

In another sense, this is "your site", because you have the power to make it both live or die.

So.....who's on first?

...but I heard on the radio today the players name of China's 1st baseman in the Olympics is Hoo.


Since you got the key, my favorite is takillya....Don Julio & Padron are both good.

pf

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