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Old Timer
07-15-2008, 07:47 PM
I hear and see all the advertisements on how much mileage brand A gets and brand B is even better and now they have hybreds that do so darn good, and I laugh.

In 2000 I purchased my wife a new Pontiac Bonneville with a 3800 V6 no turbo just a plain 3800 V6 and in 2000 this 4 door car that was like a rocket sled on rails when you mashed the peddal, got an amazing 30 miles per gallon.

Dont be fooled, GM stock may be down because they mfgcr some big cars, but they can build them just as good as anyone and they are kickin ass and takin names, Toyota is suckin hind tit.

Nuf said OT

Mr. D
07-15-2008, 08:02 PM
Toyota is suckin hind tit.



Boy, do you live in your own little world!! Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!

Old Timer
07-15-2008, 08:40 PM
Denial, boy I am talkin facts here not some pumped up advertisement for some darn match box cars. I was around when those Toyotas came along in the first big oil pinch. They have not changed one bit, just got a fancy paint job and some cow skin on the seats. Chevy and Ford built this country, Toyota is just riding on the back of GM down the path that GM carved out for ther slant eyed buts.
There is a Toyota plant 25 miles from my house, they are hurting so bad they are serving crichets and rice in the cafateria.:D

If you are smiling, you aint paying attention.
OT

dlay
07-15-2008, 09:14 PM
Dream on....:rolleyes:

Old Timer
07-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Hell man its reality look arround you. Beef Eaters drive Chevy's. My daddy had a chevy with a 454 in it, I have had so many 350's I've baught a tanker of oil in my life. This is America man if you cave in to those darn toy trucks ya might as well let your wife drive you ar take the bus.

Not me, I'll be passin you in my 327 Vortec jamin on some AC DC and you hippies will be clickin your chop sticks, watching Charlie Chan. Ahh-So number 1 son, you eat much fry rice.:D wheres that D at tell him I am lookin 4 him:D

jcwit
07-15-2008, 11:20 PM
Yeh!! This is why GM is looking to borrow $3,000,000. Don't like it but Toyota ain't sucking on the rear one. BTY Old Timer take a look at your cloths-shoes ect. mostly imported, computer you're on, imported the list goes on & on & on. Charge forward to W/M for more chinese junk, look close even the Bibles are printed in china. It's all the dollar.

Stan Pollak
07-16-2008, 07:40 AM
30mpg? must have been up on blocks when you documented it. Look at the Consumer's report-check the resale value-repair history-etc. Stan-share your sport:)

tomgrace50
07-16-2008, 08:19 AM
I Saw The List Of The Ten Highest Gas Mileage Cars Made And Chevy , Dodge, Ford Was Not Evn In It ---go By You A Chevy Dodge Or Ford And Keep It A Year And Take It Back To Trade It In They Wont Hardley Give You Nothing For It -- Try That With A Honda,toyota. Nissan And See The Difference-- I Own Three Chevys One Dodge And Two Hondas:)

brad541thb
07-16-2008, 08:46 AM
Toyota sales are in fact down from a year ago.

Here is the facts.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f78/june-2008-sales-toyota-down-11-5-dsr-66258/

brad541thb
07-16-2008, 09:03 AM
Toyota still isn't hurting like Chrysler, GM, or Ford though. But you got to remember this, too, GM is one of the biggest lenders in the US. GM owns a lot of financial lending companies. GM has their foot in a lot of other things that are still making them money.

keithcatfish
07-16-2008, 09:06 AM
About 2 months ago, I purchased an older VW Golf for the gas milage (35 mpg hwy.) because my 4 wheel drive Ranger was driving me broke (19 mpg). Problem is, I've spent more time and money fixing the VW in the past 2 months than I have on the truck 13 years and 200K miles.

Jay, Idaho
07-16-2008, 09:14 AM
Yeh!! This is why GM is looking to borrow $3,000,000.

Uhhh, I think you dropped three zeros. The quest is for $3,000,000,000 or simply stated, 3 billion dollars.

brad541thb
07-16-2008, 09:15 AM
This will give you an idea of what GM actually owns and the money that they are still making besides their auto industry which is killing them.

http://agonist.org/Learning-Center/GMAC_-_A_Sensible_Choice_for_Your_Mortgage.htm

Jay, Idaho
07-16-2008, 09:18 AM
Denial, boy I am talkin facts here not some pumped up advertisement for some darn match box cars. I was around when those Toyotas came along in the first big oil pinch. They have not changed one bit, just got a fancy paint job and some cow skin on the seats. Chevy and Ford built this country, Toyota is just riding on the back of GM down the path that GM carved out for ther slant eyed buts.
There is a Toyota plant 25 miles from my house, they are hurting so bad they are serving crichets and rice in the cafateria.:D

If you are smiling, you aint paying attention.
OT

Git'em, Old Timer. The sound of stock Corvette exhaust or the deep slurp of a wide open Q-Jet is music you will never hear from those 4-bangers.

jcwit
07-16-2008, 09:31 AM
Yeh you're right about the money amount. When numbers get that big I get confused. Obviously I'm not a politician. Ha-Ha

Rusty Carr
07-16-2008, 10:03 AM
Everyone has one. Growing up, my dad sold used cars, as did my grandfather. I myself was a really bad car salesman, before I went to school. I drive a Toyota Tundra, my wife drives a camry, my son drives a prerunner truck, his wife a camry. My son in law dlrives a Tundra, and my daughter a lexus SUV. She is a Dr. and can drive what she wants. My point is, in 62 years of life, I have never seen any vehicle with the reliability of a Toyota. Buy what you want, but facts are facts, and the fact is that a Toyota is an extrmely reliable machine. MY opinion, Rusty Carr

Yote
07-16-2008, 11:01 AM
Rusty, my son drives a Honda Accord with 140k on it and all I've ever done to it is change the oil and put brake pads on it.

My last truck was a GMC Sonoma. Good truck up till 160k and then a cylinder went to pumping oil. Alot of oil but it was still a good truck that never left me stranded except for the time I locked my keys in it at the river and had to bust out the back windshield. But I can't blame that one on the truck.

Todays vehicles are so much better than they were, but they could be so much better.

All the years of being a diesel mechanic, we ran trucks upwards to 600k to 700k without inframe overhauls. And these trucks caught it day in and day out. I know the manufacturers could build a vehicle to last a whole lot longer than they do, but I also know why they won't...........

brad541thb
07-16-2008, 11:06 AM
I'll put the Honda Accord and the Honda Civic up against any American car for going the long haul. They are 2 of the best cars period for durability.

tomgrace50
07-16-2008, 12:43 PM
I Think The Gm Cars Are As Good As Any Made Today But They Dont Have Any Resale Value

4Mesh
07-16-2008, 01:06 PM
Take your time and watch this all the way to the end. If you're not familiar with "Top Gear", it's a BBC program and it's a riot to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPH7tcxAZdg

PS. My girlfriend from some time ago, bought a VW Passat. My 5.7L LT1 Formula w/6Spd /3.43 gears got better fuel mileage. I coulda drag raced it while towing a Tahoe.

Mr. D
07-16-2008, 01:11 PM
We all have our preferences, but preferences don't change facts. I've built a few concourse 50's hot rods as I've show pictures of and I drive a tuned GM diesel pickup that lights up the tires, but those days are coming to a close for most people. We have to face the fact we will be going the way Europe has with smaller vehicles we can afford to drive. $5.00 every 15 miles has its affect. I do think that right now that American built cars are the best bang for the buck because quality has improved and the weak dollar makes them a better value. I have a 2006 Chevy diesel and it has been bullet proof so far, (knock on wood) and it gets 16 to 21 MPG, so I guess I'll keep it.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/ahobby4two/LBZ-1.png

Now if you want real mechanical simplicity and good mileage get a Chinese one cylinder diesel:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/ahobby4two/ChineseTruck.jpg

IndianaJames
07-16-2008, 02:59 PM
When my Honda wore out it's second "last set of Michelins," it sat in my driveway with a flat tire and 348,000 miles on it for a year and a half because I couldn't make myself buy another set of tires for it...till my son needed a car to drive back and forth to work (at Toyota). Put a battery in it and Vroom, off to work. It leaks a little oil and could use a set of springs, but it still gets over 30mpg.

Jim

HovisKM
07-16-2008, 03:55 PM
My LS1 422HP Covette gets 27.5 MPG at 80 mph. But...my 2007 V6 Explorer is worse than the 2003 V8 Explorer...go figure.

Hovis

Fred J
07-16-2008, 04:06 PM
Hovis:
That V6 in the Explorer is just too small. Poor Power to Weight ratio. What really ticks me off, is my old 54 Ford V8 got 25MPG and these new vehicles are supposed to be more efficient

HovisKM
07-16-2008, 05:18 PM
Fred,
That was kind of my point in a round about way. My Porsche used to get over 32 mpg at 75 mph. My 1985 mustang used to get around 28-30mpg. All this new technology is just selling points in my opinion.

And this new Hybrid BS crap. Has anyone stopped and thought about the enviromental impact of all these batteries. If bunches of these are sold, we sure won't have to worry about the ozone holes...we'll never make it that far.

Hovis

Butch Lambert
07-16-2008, 07:10 PM
Yote, you better get a timing belt on that Honda or you won't be happy!
Butch

RayfromTX
07-16-2008, 10:40 PM
Hovis-
Sorry to have to correct you sir but you are dead wrong about hybrid batteries. They are 100% recyclable and in fact, the Toyota Prius battery has a 200$ deposit on it to encourage it's return to the factory. There is a facility in Japan that is set up to refurbish these batteries but it is idle as there have not been any worn out due to age. They apparently last the life of the vehicle.

Mine just hit 102k with no issues whatsoever. I get an honest 55 MPG in mixed driving and 41 MPG when loaded and driving 80 mph on the highway. I have saved about 13-14k $ in fuel since purchasing it as compared to the 15 mpg truck I used to drive. It is a very enjoyable car to drive and is very flexible with it's hatchback.

I can load it up with camping gear luggage guns ammo coolers tables and other gear and drive out literally into the prairie with it for PD hunts or such fun as that. I saw Shelley Davidson at a match with his. He had all the gear for two people crammed into the back of his.

They have had the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car for the last 4 years running. You may like your American cars and trucks and that's great but when you run down hybrids and imports in general, you sound silly to those of us that drive them.

Mr. D
07-17-2008, 10:07 AM
Good to hear your report on the Prius! I've wondered about the battery issues myself.

HovisKM
07-17-2008, 11:42 AM
You had better look into it a little more. Sure the batteries are recycleable but that don't mean there not dangerous to the enviroment. There will not be an actual recycling facility in america because the EPA won't allow it. As soon as there are bunches of these things around....look out. The by-products of recyling them are about as bad as the batteries. There is no such things as a good battery when it comes to the enviroment.

Got this info from some people that work at one of the most advance battery developmental and test facilities in the U.S. (they also do failure anaylisis). It's on a Navy Depot in Indiana.

I am glad that Toyota (by no surprise) got the problems worked out. About six of them (when they first came out) went up in smoke because of some cabling or charging problem.

Hovis

Big Al
07-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Some time ago, I read about a 100 mile per gallon club. I don't know how to post a link. If you will just copy and paste you will find a lot of imformation on the web. This was when gas was under a 1.50 a gallon.

Butch Lambert
07-17-2008, 12:22 PM
Big Al,
You are talking about hyper milers. I won't even comment on them as I one finger type and it would take too long. I have several customers with the Prius. All of them are in the 48mpg area in combined driving. They have had no troubles with them. It will take them a very long time to pay them out though with the fuel savings.
Butch

Big Al
07-17-2008, 03:28 PM
Big Al,
You are talking about hyper milers. I won't even comment on them as I one finger type and it would take too long. I have several customers with the Prius. All of them are in the 48mpg area in combined driving. They have had no troubles with them. It will take them a very long time to pay them out though with the fuel savings.
Butch

My point in the post was simply that there has been people out there getting high mileage long before the current problems. I seem to recall a benchrester that was among them. To many years to recall who it was. I just found it interesting. I do know for sure that I long ago learned how to pick up five miles to the gallon by no more change than driving style. I don't feel bad about 33 to 34 miles to the gallon. Up from 27-28 MPG.

tylerw02
07-17-2008, 05:01 PM
A good friend of mine and retired GM engineer drives an old Toyota pickup. Its a 4 cyl diesel, 5 speed. He was complaining the other day that the mileage was really starting to drop. He now gets around 60 mpg, down from 70 mpg. He's tweaked the engine since it pulled out of the factory. It used to have a turbo charger. If I remember correctly, he's changed the fuel system and bored it slightly over.

Honda and Toyota may have some of the highest fuel economy vehicles, but they also have some very poor ones. The Toyota and Honda trucks seem to get worse economy than the GM trucks. And as pointed out, some of the GM cars get great economy. I almost bought a 2006 Monte Carlo a few years ago instead of my GMC Sierra. I thought the fuel economy would be nice, but I needed the room and 4x4 for hunting trips. If I remember correctly, that fairly large Monte Carlo got 34 mpg out of a 190 hp, 3800 cc 6cyl gas burner.

Chuck Bogardus
07-17-2008, 08:57 PM
I usually rent an Impala or Monte Carlo when I drive down to Cartersville to visit my father.

And, well, they're rentals. So they're not babied. And the -worst- mileage I've gotten with them was around 30mpg... I like that Monte Carlo...

If you don't drive like that, you can probably tack on another 5mpg or so...

Phil Deese
07-17-2008, 09:09 PM
I bought my wife a new a 2007 Impala SS I paid $17,000.00 for it, it was a car left over to 2008, it gets 28 miles a gallon on the highway and 22 around town....it has every option you including sun roof, remote start, leather, XM radio, leather, and every other option available...including 100,000 warranty. She drove the Honda's, BMW's, and just about every other import out there......she said the Impala was the best car regardless of price. I still think American's can do anything better than anyone else, and they will continue to get my money, even though I hate the unions as bad as I do!!!

ultramag44
07-30-2008, 07:34 PM
In 1930, a fellow in Canada developed a carborator system that ran on dry fumes, not a wet, atomized mixture. It worked by heating the gasoline. He got 200 MPG on a V8 Ford. :) NOT a stripped down light-weight, but a complete car. The Candian oil market crashed! They quickly put additives in the fuel to render his system (for high fuel mailage anyway) un-workable. :(

Can't have back-yard inventors upsetting the status quo....can we now? :rolleyes:

Dennis Sorensen
07-30-2008, 08:18 PM
In 1930, a fellow in Canada developed a carborator system that ran on dry fumes, not a wet, atomized mixture. It worked by heating the gasoline. He got 200 MPG on a V8 Ford. :) NOT a stripped down light-weight, but a complete car. The Candian oil market crashed! They quickly put additives in the fuel to render his system (for high fuel mailage anyway) un-workable. :(

Can't have back-yard inventors upsetting the status quo....can we now? :rolleyes:

That's such an old myth you should be embarrassed to post it...:)

ultramag44
07-30-2008, 10:33 PM
Dennis,

I read about it LONG before the internet! Not a myth.

The quicly inserted (after the system was made public) fuel additives defeated the system. 25 + years ago, men attempted to re-create the system to work w/ todays poor fuels. They could "only" get 70 or 75 MPG out of a Linclon Continental.

Consider this: Just in the last week, due to reduced demand, the price of crude has dropped (fact). Now, let's just suppose, that all cars and trucks suddenly got 3X the fuel mileage they got last week. What would happeen to the price of crude oil? Drop or crash (suposition)?


You should be embarrassed...to dismiss the work of a gentleman who thought "outside the box" before it was fashionable.

Dennis Sorensen
07-31-2008, 09:29 AM
I didn't say it was an internet myth, I said it was an old myth... it has become an internet myth recently...

It first came out in 1948 and even back then it could not be verified...

The story details may have changed slightly over the years but it is still a myth..

You can read about it here: http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

ultramag44
07-31-2008, 12:54 PM
Here are the prints Dennis. The principle is quite sound.


http://www.rexresearch.com/pogue/1pogue.htm

Up untill 100 years ago the "Hairy Man Of the Woods" was a myth, then they caught a Gorilla! ;)

Dennis Sorensen
07-31-2008, 01:22 PM
Engineers who have tried in the past to build a carburetor using Pogue’s theories have found the results less than satisfactory.

Charles Friend, of Canada’s National Research Council, told Marketplace, a consumer affairs programme: "You can get fantastic mileage if you’re prepared to de-rate the vehicle to a point where, for example, it might take you ten minutes to accelerate from 0 to 30 miles an hour."


.... and the 1936 myth continues today ... :)

ultramag44
07-31-2008, 06:08 PM
The difference is: the gasoline of today is not the gasoline of 1930. They promptly put in additives to defeat the dry-vapor system. :(

I'll be quiet now. All the flat-earth, OJ was framed, global-warming-is-real folks: have @ it; the rest of ther thread is ya'lls! :D

Butch Lambert
07-31-2008, 10:13 PM
Dennis,
I think somebody mentioned the magnets for the fuel lines, how about the water alcohol injection into the carbs, Split Fire spark plugs, mothballs in the gas tank, various magic fuel additives, the hot spark booster that fit in the top of your coil, and the other gimmics. I think that it is funny that these myths are blamed on the government, car makers, and oil companies putting a stop on them.
The ethanol is being used in areas with a smog problem. It emits a little cleaner air. It is definitely not cheaper than the regular unleaded fuel in our area.
Butch

John Kielly
07-31-2008, 10:46 PM
Butch,

Water injection is useful, or at least it was. Back when I went to high school in the sixties, my science master had a MG Magnette that he'd put a factory new motor in about 10 years earlier & fitted it with water injection. As a project, one weekend we dropped the head off to do a decoke (are you old enough to remember doing that?) & wiped what carbon there was off the head with an old rag. The valves looked like new as far as buildup on them went & the top of the pistons were clean.

Nobody then ever claimed that it did the mileage much good, but it sure kept one motor in as new shape.

John

Butch Lambert
07-31-2008, 10:59 PM
John, I'll buy that, just not the 40MPG on a big car as claimed or any other mileage increase.
Butch

speedpro
08-01-2008, 01:13 AM
I've been getting 10 / 12 mpg., on 87 octane fuel w 10% ethanol in my F250 I love my truck but that milage was horriable. My last truck was a 87 carburated Dodge this one is a 2004 Ford worlds apart technology wise.

I had to re-educate myself and simply cleaned up the fuel injectors and combustion chambers, changed to Mobil 1 "full synthetic" motor oil, increased air pressure in tires(miss my cloud 9 ride) and went to 89 octane fuel w 10% ethanol, last 4 tanks of fuel yeilded a 5 mpg., increase across the board.

Total cost aro. $60.00 , did I say I love my truck more than ever now !. :cool:

W. owens
08-01-2008, 08:52 AM
Ultramag44,

I think the system you remember was called the "Mark IV" or something similar. As I remember, it used a Briggs & Stratton carb to meter the fuel into a heat exchanger that was heated by exhaust to vaporize the fuel. I had seen a set of plans for it that a neighbor had obtained when they were looking at doing a conversion on one of their vehicles.

Don't know if they ever did it or not.

I know that on the older carb engines, too lean a mixture would lead to excess cylinder heat. Not sure what this ("Mark IV" conversion)would do, considering it would be super lean.

Butch Lambert
08-01-2008, 10:44 AM
Speedpro, methinks that your driving habits changed when you tried this experiment and that helped you most.
Butch

Fred J
08-01-2008, 10:51 AM
Butch: I think you're right. I've try numerous additives and gadgets over the years, and I saw the most change ,improvement, in MPG, is when I was keeping close records of my driving and gasoline useage. When I stopped doing that, my useage went right back up to what it was in the beginning.

jcwit
08-01-2008, 11:20 AM
The foot on the pedal seems to make the bigest difference.

speedpro
08-01-2008, 01:58 PM
Speedpro, methinks that your driving habits changed when you tried this experiment and that helped you most.
Butch

Good point but not much changes except "underwear and socks", I'm a creature of habit, my bad one's will definatly kill me :eek:

I moniter my milage closely, I'm weird and anal about many things ain't got nothin better to do.

When I drive in the heart of the city and stopsigns are at every corner and my passanger is p...in me off :mad: I have a tendancy to drive sloppy, rare but it happens. I noticed the initial 5mpg., increase drops to 2.5.

The bloodpressure increase is probably off the chart's :D

Mr. D
08-03-2008, 05:19 AM
I just bought a Mustang GT Premium and ran my first tank of gas through it around town driving like a teenager giving test rides chirping rubber as I went through the gears.

Surprise, with all the heavy foot driving it still came up 20 MPG. I curious what it will do when I start driving like an adult!

http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w355/blackholeofspam/Picture1.png

John Kielly
08-03-2008, 06:01 AM
I curious what it will do when I start driving like an adult!
You mean holding onto that zimmer frame on the back? :D

Yote
08-03-2008, 08:09 AM
D, a car like that wasn't meant to drive like an adult.

That's what keeps ya young!:D

Mr. D
08-04-2008, 12:50 AM
D, a car like that wasn't meant to drive like an adult.

That's what keeps ya young!:D
Me thinks you are right! I was helping restore a 56 Corvette the other night, but my buddy is building concours looking stock '61 & '62 Vets with brand new crate Corvette engines and trannies on a modern frame that makes them handle close to a Formula 1 car. Imagine a car that looks like this and handles like a brand new Corvette!

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/ahobby4two/61Fuelly.jpg

Roger T
08-04-2008, 02:27 AM
detracts from milage, it has less BTUs than regular gasoline,(ask someone with an E-85 vehicle ) what their MPG is VS gas it might cost less at the pump but your at the pump more often:p:D

Mr. D
08-08-2008, 04:21 AM
Can you believe it? The Stealership called me and told me I wasn't eligible for the dealer incentives they gave me on my Mustang (post #52) because I own a Ford Lincoln instead of a Ford Ford. Well, guess what? It's staying in my garage and my checkbook is closed! :mad:

tylerw02
08-08-2008, 04:18 PM
I just bought a Mustang GT Premium and ran my first tank of gas through it around town driving like a teenager giving test rides chirping rubber as I went through the gears.

Surprise, with all the heavy foot driving it still came up 20 MPG. I curious what it will do when I start driving like an adult!

http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w355/blackholeofspam/Picture1.png

My sister has a Mustang GT and when "driving like an adult" gets about 25-26 mpg. My mother drives a 2002 Trans Am WS6 and gets about 28 mpg "driving like an adult".