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H."Snuffy"Smith
07-11-2008, 10:21 AM
Subject:: A Must Read For Every AMERICAN.


Think you know who this man is?
This possible President of the United States?? Read Below and
Ask yourselves, is this REALLY someone we can see as the
President of our great nation!!!!


Below are a few lines from Obama's books; In his words!
http://babygotbooks.com/Obama.jpg http://www.theslot.com/gifs/obama2.jpg

From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'


And FINALLY the Most Damming one of ALL of them!!!

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'


* If you have never forwarded an e-mail, now is the time to Do so!!!!
We CANNOT have someone with this type of mentality running
our GREAT nation!!!

I don't care whether you are a Democrat or a Conservative.
We CANNOT turn ourselves over to this type of character
in a President. PLEASE HELP SPREAD the WORD!

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-12-2008, 10:10 PM
bttt

Mr. D
07-12-2008, 10:13 PM
This taken out of context cr@p again??????? :rolleyes:

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-12-2008, 10:21 PM
his books and do DIRECT QUOTES ! If you can disprove that last quote, let us know. I'm certainly not going to waste money on his thoughts, at least the ones he wants us to read.

Do you think Jesse gave us his TRUE feelings with the hot mic....DUH

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-13-2008, 11:15 PM
bttt

hulk
07-14-2008, 11:10 AM
If the quote is taken out of context, then we beg that you correct our misunderstanding.

Phil Deese
07-14-2008, 03:00 PM
"D" is just like the liberal media....they'll do anything and say anything to get Osama elected!!

6brGuns
07-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Just thought everyone may want to check out this link prior to makeing any further comment.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

Yote
07-14-2008, 07:52 PM
That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Most of those comments broken down pretty much say the same thing. Especially the last one. He says he will stand with immigrants, I take that as any immigrants, and that is unacceptable. That would most certainly include the Muslim immigrants and the little friends coming in south of the border.

I'm sorry, I just can't support him. He claims to be Christian when his beliefs tell a different story. He believes there are many ways to get into heaven, not believing Jesus died for our sins and thru Him by grace is the only way. He also believes his atheist mother(the kindest woman he's known) is in heaven. To a Christian, that can't be. Period.

I don't know what his religion would be with those beliefs but I know what it ain't.

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-14-2008, 11:44 PM
Is this as liberal as it comes across ? The quotes may not be as accurate as I believed originally, but Snope seems to be an Obama supporter by any means. If that is their goal, my anti Obama reserve has not been really changed. He writes as he speaks, in circles, not really saying any thing of substance. "An empty suit" ?

Again, this is the only candidate the democrats can offer ?:eek:



Just thought everyone may want to check out this link prior to makeing any further comment.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

Phil Deese
07-15-2008, 05:47 AM
Like I said, most of these lib's are like sheep going to the slaughter!!

nrb
07-15-2008, 07:26 AM
CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE
Here are a few questions for the Messiah of Hope and Change, our Manchurian Candidate:
Barack Hussein Obama
What EXACTLY is he going to CHANGE in the USA?
What changes to our energy, oil, and fuel problems does he propose?
How will he reform and save social security?
How do you protect capitalism with your socialist agenda?
What kind of tax structure does he propose for us?
What does he propose for health care and how do we pay?
Why are you for slavery reparations?
How can we trust someone with TWO (2) muslim fathers?
How can we trust someone who "belongs" to a racist church?
What exactly will he do to combat the islamic threat to the USA?
How will he counter islam in other countries?
Why does he belong to the racist Congressional Black Caucus?
What will he do to upgrade and reform our military?
What does he propose for homosexual marriage?
What does he propose for gun control?
What does he propose for illegal immigration, closing the borders, and the millions of illegal immigrants in the USA?
What exactly will he do to solve our energy problems?
plus one hundred more questions concerning the future of the USA.

Big Al
07-15-2008, 08:12 AM
That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Most of those comments broken down pretty much say the same thing. Especially the last one. He says he will stand with immigrants, I take that as any immigrants, and that is unacceptable. That would most certainly include the Muslim immigrants and the little friends coming in south of the border.

I'm sorry, I just can't support him. He claims to be Christian when his beliefs tell a different story. He believes there are many ways to get into heaven, not believing Jesus died for our sins and thru Him by grace is the only way. He also believes his atheist mother(the kindest woman he's known) is in heaven. To a Christian, that can't be. Period.

I don't know what his religion would be with those beliefs but I know what it ain't.

There are many paths? I just about fell out of my chair when I heard that one. I sat in stunned silence. "So much for "Narrow is the Path, that leads to salvation".


More than any other thing I've heard about this man, this scares me more than any other. Where did he ever learn this kind of crap. What bible did he find his understanding from?

You must wonder who that nonsense appeals to?:confused:

Yote
07-15-2008, 08:21 AM
Obama claims to be a Christian despite his denial of basic Christian tenets. For example, Obama does not believe that acceptance of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is necessary for salvation. Obama has repeatedly said belief in Jesus is only one of many paths to salvation.

At one campaign stop, Obama said that his mother was in heaven despite her atheism and outright rejection of Christ. While speaking at a town hall forum in North Carolina on March 26, 2008 he said his late mother was “not a believer.” He continued, "But she was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."



Big Al, here's the link.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/FloydandMaryBethBrown/2008/06/27/obama-linked_minister_leads_attack_on_dobson

Mr. D
07-15-2008, 09:34 AM
Isn't it awful if Obama doesn't adhere to your Taliban like view of Christianity! It's clear you don't believe in freedom of religious thought! What a surprise???

HovisKM
07-15-2008, 11:31 AM
What do you care D, you don't believe in religion anyway yet your taking up for a muslim. Change...Change...Change....Yes, we need change but change back to the way this great country was....not more of this liberal BS that has got us where we are at.

Hovis

Rusty Carr
07-15-2008, 11:43 AM
Mr. D. I absolutely believe in freedom of religious thought. I jusg don't have to believe that it is correct. You don't understand what it is to be a Christian. It means you believe what the bible says. You are perfectly free to disagree with the bible, but how, then, can you call yourself a christian if you disagree with the basic tenets of the faith. Jesus himself, said, II am the way, the truth and the life/ He did not say I am A way etc. He said no man comes to the father but through me. Sounds pretty final to me. You may call true christians biased, intolerant or whatever you may. The truth is absolute. I defend your right to be Muslim, Hindu or whatever you choose. You just can't pick and choose what parts of Christianity you want to believe. I feel sorry for Barak's mother, but if you believe in the Bible, you must believe that she was not saved, and is not in heaven. Being a good person is not enough. Pretty harsh words, but I believe my Bible, and I'll not waver from it. Choose whatever pathway you want, I just pray that it will be the right one. Rusty Carr

Phil Deese
07-15-2008, 12:06 PM
Than I am!!!

Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion Over Wishes of Individual States a Priority for Presidency
By Peter J. Smith

WASHINGTON, D.C., June 10, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Barack Obama, the presumptive pro-abortion nominee of the Democratic Party, has plans to reward the allies that helped him topple Hillary Clinton from her throne by making total unrestricted abortion in the United States his number one priority as president.

In light of Obama's recently achieved status as the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, Focus on the Family's CitizenLink has decided to remind its supporters that almost one year has passed since Obama made his vows to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund that abortion would be the first priority of his administration.

]"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act," Obama said in his July speech to abortion advocates worried about the increase of pro-life legislation at the state level.

The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) is legislation Obama has co-sponsored along with 18 other senators that would annihilate every single state law limiting or regulating abortion, including the federal ban on partial birth abortion.

The 2007 version of FOCA proposed: "It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman."

Obama made his remarks in a question-and-answer session after delivering a speech crystallizing for abortion advocates his deep-seated abortion philosophy and his belief that federal legislation will break pro-life resistance and end the national debate on abortion. (see transcript: http://lauraetch.googlepages.com/barackobamabeforeplannedpar...)

"I am absolutely convinced that culture wars are so nineties; their days are growing dark, it is time to turn the page," Obama said in July. "We want a new day here in America. We're tired about arguing about the same ole' stuff. And I am convinced we can win that argument."

Besides making abortion on demand a "fundamental right" throughout the United States, FOCA would effectively nullify informed consent laws, waiting periods, health safety regulations for abortion clinics, etc.[/B]Furthermore, medical professionals and institutions that refused abortions also would lose legal protections. FOCA would expose individuals, organizations, and governments - including federal, state, and local government agencies - to costly civil actions for purported violations of the act.

Now I know why he kept listening to Rev. Wrong.....both of them are lost as last years Easter egg when it comes to Biblical knowledge!!:mad::mad::mad:

Yote
07-15-2008, 01:42 PM
Isn't it awful if Obama doesn't adhere to your Taliban like view of Christianity! It's clear you don't believe in freedom of religious thought! What a surprise???

Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah! Stop right there! Where did I say I didn't believe in religious thought? He has the RIGHT to practice whatever he wants. More power to him.

What I pointed out is that he claims to be a Christian but doesn't have Christian beliefs. BIG difference there. Funny thing though, not ever has a president been elected that didn't at least claim to be a Christian. Now who's playing the religious card?

And D, there is only one view to Christianity. Take it or leave it, there's no gray area.

This could be one of those lies that vicvanb and tyler02 have been discussing.

Yote
07-15-2008, 01:48 PM
"It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman."



Someone explain to me what fetal viability is?

Life starts when the egg is fertilized. What's so hard to understand about that?

Mr. D
07-15-2008, 07:54 PM
And D, there is only one view to Christianity. Take it or leave it, there's no gray area.



That's exactly what the Taliban would say about Islam! "Take it or leave it, there's no gray area." The major difference between some far right Christians and the Taliban is how far they are willing to go to enforce their religion on other people.

A Super Christian relative of mine once said, "A fanatic is just someone who loves God more than you do!" :eek: :eek: :eek:

Mr. D
07-15-2008, 07:58 PM
Mr. D. I absolutely believe in freedom of religious thought. I jusg don't have to believe that it is correct. You don't understand what it is to be a Christian. It means you believe what the bible says. You are perfectly free to disagree with the bible, but how, then, can you call yourself a christian if you disagree with the basic tenets of the faith. Jesus himself, said, II am the way, the truth and the life/ He did not say I am A way etc. He said no man comes to the father but through me. Sounds pretty final to me. You may call true christians biased, intolerant or whatever you may. The truth is absolute. I defend your right to be Muslim, Hindu or whatever you choose. You just can't pick and choose what parts of Christianity you want to believe. I feel sorry for Barak's mother, but if you believe in the Bible, you must believe that she was not saved, and is not in heaven. Being a good person is not enough. Pretty harsh words, but I believe my Bible, and I'll not waver from it. Choose whatever pathway you want, I just pray that it will be the right one. Rusty Carr

Rusty,

I respect and defend your religious views. I hope you respect and defend other people's right not to share them!

Mr. D
07-15-2008, 07:59 PM
What do you care D, you don't believe in religion anyway yet your taking up for a muslim. Change...Change...Change....Yes, we need change but change back to the way this great country was....not more of this liberal BS that has got us where we are at.

Hovis

You are living with the silly myth that things were better in the past! That's only true in Disney movies!

Yote
07-15-2008, 08:14 PM
That's exactly what the Taliban would say about Islam! "Take it or leave it, there's no gray area." The major difference between some far right Christians and the Taliban is how far they are willing to go to enforce their religion on other people.

A Super Christian relative of mine once said, "A fanatic is just someone who loves God more than you do!" :eek: :eek: :eek:

Well, if believeing what the Bible says makes me a far right fanatic, then......I am what I am.:D

What I am not, is a murderer of anyone who doesn't believe what I believe in, nor do I push my beliefs down anyones throat, nor do I threaten them with death if they don't accept my beliefs.

You can compare me to the Taliban, but I'm not quite that far along yet.

But I am warming up to the idea.:eek:

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-15-2008, 09:45 PM
politics and specifically Obama. Political discussions and religious dogma intertwined doesn't suit the vein of this "chat" IMHO. As some poster said a bit earlier "Too much booze and too much religion aren't necessarily a good thing". I know what Obama says every day about the economy, Iraq, etc. etc., that's politics. If he says he is a Christian, how can I prove or disprove his statement ? I will NOT attempt to do so ! Now, about Iraq, I believe he is wrong. About taxes, gun control, the economy, again I believe he is wrong. MY religion is in my mind, a very private thing. An evangelist, I am not.

Now, let's get on with the political "chat" in a friendly ?? manner.:rolleyes:

Big Al
07-15-2008, 10:17 PM
Obama claims to be a Christian despite his denial of basic Christian tenets. For example, Obama does not believe that acceptance of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is necessary for salvation. Obama has repeatedly said belief in Jesus is only one of many paths to salvation.

At one campaign stop, Obama said that his mother was in heaven despite her atheism and outright rejection of Christ. While speaking at a town hall forum in North Carolina on March 26, 2008 he said his late mother was “not a believer.” He continued, "But she was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."



Big Al, here's the link.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/FloydandMaryBethBrown/2008/06/27/obama-linked_minister_leads_attack_on_dobson

Thank you for the link. Stunned would be putting it mildly. This is the most open distortion of the truth I have ever seen. Freedom of thought and freedom of religion have a few rules, but only if you care to be believed.

What I like about this debate is the different views. One side thinks the Bill of Rights proscribes "Freedom From Religion", One side thinks that you can call yourself anything you want and hide the deceit, and believe whatever you please. And that's just two of the sides. But the one side that scares me the most, know the lies, think the lies are OK, believes we should subscribe to them anyway, because they have a right to try to deceive people.

One of the problems that these different sides have about Christ is the rules. You do understand who's rules these are don't you? They are not the rules that I made up, or any man made up. These are GOD's rules. You don't want to follow the rules, you want to make up your own rules, that's your decision. GOD will not force you to follow his Laws. Anyone that comes along in HIS name and tries to force you to follow GOD is not following GOD's LAW.

People that lie to you about GOD's law, are simply liars. Is there a problem with that, Not for Man, there is a problem for GOD with that. GOD's offer comes by invitation. If it comes by any other way, then it's not GOD's LAW.

The rules of HIS law have been laid down from before Man was. They are unchangeable, if they were changeable, GOD would no longer be GOD. They are the same LAW for everybody. All is by invitation, GOD will not force you to be good, against your will.

How is this LAW of GOD, like the Laws laid down by the Talibond?

Yote
07-15-2008, 10:29 PM
Snuffy, like it or not, religion is part of the political process of getting elected. It's all part of it. What you are asking is to just talk about certain aspects of politics, but not all of it. And to a presidential nominee, nothing is private. That's just part of it and if a presidential nominee doesn't believe that, he has no business running.

The members of this forum come from all walks of life, and there are things discussed here that I feel shouldn't be also. But I can't tell them what to discuss and what not to. If I told D what he could or couldn't discuss, I'm sure I would here his screams all the way from the west coast.:D

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-15-2008, 11:44 PM
that a politician's beliefs, his record,his experience, etc. are all open to discussion by the public. That is certainly a valid thought when voting.
I'm talking about MY religious beliefs, I don't expect to state my religious beliefs to this forum....not necessary ! Is Obama's mother in heaven, who am I to know or decide ? He hopes so, I do too. Why in the HELL would he even make this statement ? I don't see that this matters about his thoughts on being president. He DOES talk without saying anything meaningful every day. That was my whole point.

Big Al
07-16-2008, 07:00 AM
that a politician's beliefs, his record,his experience, etc. are all open to discussion by the public. That is certainly a valid thought when voting.
I'm talking about MY religious beliefs, I don't expect to state my religious beliefs to this forum....not necessary ! Is Obama's mother in heaven, who am I to know or decide ? He hopes so, I do too. Why in the HELL would he even make this statement ? I don't see that this matters about his thoughts on being president. He DOES talk without saying anything meaningful every day. That was my whole point.

Is only your point the only point? Maybe the reason you don't care about others points of view, is that you consider no other point of view is as important as yours?

I have been left wondering how any government that claims to be about freedom, can lie all the time? It seems that these two candidates will be perfect for who ever gets elected.

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-16-2008, 07:28 AM
If I didn't consider and wonder about other views, why would I bother to be here ? I've learned a lot in life by listening to others, and I hope to continue listening. I am NOT so narrow minded as to think that all others are wrong.
As a certified "Old Goat", my outlook has changed a bunch over the years, but I find it very hard to consider Obama as a viable candidate. Frankly, I am very worried about what this country will look like to my grandchaildren, if this is all either party has to offer.:( And with that, I'll leave this subject.

HMS





Is only your point the only point? Maybe the reason you don't care about others points of view, is that you consider no other point of view is as important as yours?

I have been left wondering how any government that claims to be about freedom, can lie all the time? It seems that these two candidates will be perfect for who ever gets elected.

H."Snuffy"Smith
07-16-2008, 07:38 AM
post to clarify my feelings.

Adieu, HMS

Yote
07-16-2008, 09:15 AM
Well then Snuffy, on the other areas you mentioned about politics and Obama, I would say I have to agree with you. Bad thing is I don't have a particular love for JM either but I don't feel I have much of a choice.

Mr. D
07-16-2008, 02:31 PM
Common sense would tell anyone that a bright guy like Obama would not write anti American or anti white commentary is his books. How dumb would a politician have to be to do that???? Double Duh! So just maybe very understandable comments are being taken out of context and distorted by those who do not like Obama just as he is constantly being called a Muslim.

My family doctor is a Muslim and one of the nicest, caring men I know! Should things go badly for Muslims I will stand by his side too, because he is a good man and good American. I believe that is the true American way even if others do not! I was too young to stand up for good Japanese American citizens during WW II, but I will be there if there is a persecution of Muslims while I am alive. I believe in our Constitution even if many of our leaders don't!

Rock63
07-16-2008, 02:33 PM
From the Snopes.Com review of these quotes it appears that they are not based in facts.

It is most unfortunate that some in America believe that these kinds of distortions are appropriate.

(No I do not blame the author of this thread, I believe that he was sharing information that was presented to him as credible.) Thank you to the forum members for researching the truth on this issue.

Mr. D
07-16-2008, 02:49 PM
(No I do not blame the author of this thread, I believe that he was sharing information that was presented to him as credible.) Thank you to the forum members for researching the truth on this issue.

Blame is not the issue! The issue is that some want so much to believe the negative about liberals that they don't stop and apply the test of common sense to the Cr@p out there. It shows a biased attitude!

Example: Are you aware of how much commentary there is out there about McCain collaborating with the Vietnamese in making statements and 32 videos against the U.S. and giving classified information about bombing routes while a prisoner. So should it be accepted as fact??? Not in my opinion until clearly proven! If that commentary was about Obama it would be accepted as fact by many on this forum without question.

A very interesting situation exists with Snopes.com that worries me! Although many are aware of the many claims that McCain collaborated with the Vietnamese in making both anti U.S. statements, 32 videos and giving classified bombing route information Snopes does not comment on the issue at all! Why??? If there is no support for the claim why does not Snopes say so??? The only listings about McCain are very positive even though the collaboration issue is common knowledge and found on the internet.

On the positive side, McCain is also said to have turned down early release because he would have jumped ahead of others held by the Vietnamese! Will this all become an issue later in the campaign as it did with Senator Kerry??? What do you think!

Take a look for yourselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbUUp8tVxIM&feature=related

Phil Deese
07-16-2008, 02:59 PM
GIVING CHILDREN EVERYTHING THEY NEED

Barack Obama recently made a speech to one of my favorite groups ... the American Federation of Teachers. This is perhaps the most dangerous group in the United States, because it is responsible for the destruction of generation after generation in this country.

But in this speech, Obama says that real change means "finally giving our kids everything they need to have a fighting chance in today's world." Not opening up opportunities or rewarding hard work ... we ought to give our children everything. Entitlement culture. Making children reliant on the government.

And if that isn't bad enough, Obama actually believes that government school teachers are more important than parents. He says, "That begins with recognizing that the single most important factor in determining a child's achievement is not the color of their skin or where they come from; it's not who their parents are or how much money they have. It's who their teacher is." So for all of you who continue to hand your children over to the government to be educated, just remember that their teacher, according to Barack Obama, will have a more profound impact on your child than you will.

Mr. D
07-16-2008, 06:31 PM
Phil,

Your ability to "spin" another person's words into a completely, negative meaning never intended is wasted on this forum! Send some of your work to Carl Rove and you'll have a new career assassinating people's character!

(Notice that under our new attempt to be civil I used the term "spin" instead of a more obvious word used when you knowingly misinterpret someone's words!)

Phil Deese
07-16-2008, 07:20 PM
Your not one of those union member teachers are you???:eek::eek::eek:

Mr. D
07-17-2008, 01:12 AM
Your not one of those union member teachers are you???:eek::eek::eek:

Looking for another label of prejudice to place on someone so you don't have to think? Do you notice I don't take cheap shots at you for being a Marine?

Incidentally the answer to your question is that I did collective bargaining for 1500+ teachers for over 25 years and I'm very proud of it. I've seen poor teachers in my 31 years as a teacher, but the vast majority were hard working people that did their very best while the country blamed them for their children's declining attitudes. Luckily I taught 65% Asian children so I was supported by their parents rather than blamed for our children's values!

Phil Deese
07-17-2008, 05:30 AM
I never said teachers were bad. If a teachers is good they probably don't need collective bargaining anyway. The problem is unions continue to keep and fight for the worthless teachers that should have been ran off a long time ago. The unions will continue to fleece the government and industry, until they destroy our children and our jobs....they are never satisfied....always looking to the next contract to steal more and more power, money, and benefits!!

Yote
07-17-2008, 08:49 AM
Blame is not the issue! The issue is that some want so much to believe the negative about liberals that they don't stop and apply the test of common sense to the Cr@p out there. It shows a biased attitude!

Example: Are you aware of how much commentary there is out there about McCain collaborating with the Vietnamese in making statements and 32 videos against the U.S. and giving classified information about bombing routes while a prisoner. So should it be accepted as fact??? Not in my opinion until clearly proven! If that commentary was about Obama it would be accepted as fact by many on this forum without question.



D, can we agree that this is just part of the political process? I for one believe people are generally smart enough to see thru the BS and make a rational well thought out decision regardless of what is posted on this forum or any other forum.

I don't feel the need to jump to JM's defense everytime something negative or fictitious is said about him. I understand that it happens and is expected.

In the end I think people will look at their platform and what they stand for and make their decision based on that, not on some email that a poster is sharing.

Mr. D
07-17-2008, 09:24 AM
I never said teachers were bad. If a teachers is good they probably don't need collective bargaining anyway. The problem is unions continue to keep and fight for the worthless teachers that should have been ran off a long time ago. The unions will continue to fleece the government and industry, until they destroy our children and our jobs....they are never satisfied....always looking to the next contract to steal more and more power, money, and benefits!!

"I never said teachers were bad." :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Mr. D
07-17-2008, 09:26 AM
D, can we agree that this is just part of the political process?

It shouldn't be!

Yote
07-17-2008, 10:14 AM
It shouldn't be!

There's alot in this world that shouldn't be. That doesn't mean it's going to change just because you think it should.

There are aspects of your life that I think shouldn't be, but I can't change them. That has to come from you. And I'm sure you could say the same for myself.

Phil Deese
07-17-2008, 11:40 AM
I apologize...I should have said not ALL teachers are bad, but you know as well as I that unions defend the worthless ones that should have been ran off years ago. I have always said, If you show-up for work on time, do your job, and not cause any trouble, what do you need a union for. Everyone I've seen organized in the last 20 years has been by the most worthless employee's that should have been ran-off years prior to the union. I have seen this happen three time in my career, and everytime the plant ends-up closing because of the union's greed and the force-feeding of them to keep the worthless employees. When teachers form a union they just keep asking for more and more, and doing less and less, until they bankrupt the state and frustrate the taxpayers. Correct me if i'm wrong, but look at all of the states that have unionized teachers....are the states almost bankrupt and the education sub-standard?? Obama wants to continue the downward spiril in the name of additional votes. How much has the government spent on education in the last 20 years? What are the results? Has the unionized teachers improved?? I rest my case!!! The war in Iraq seems pretty cheap now doesn't it!!