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J Pappas
07-09-2008, 01:54 PM
I wanted to thank you Gene but the thread was deleted before I got a chance. I have been thinking about coming over to the Centerfire forum to help you centerfire shooters with your rests the same way Bill has with tuners. I have noticed that ya'LL have taken a real shine to Bill and by gosh I just want to help too. But then I realized that centerfire shooters have done pretty well without my help. Also, Bill is a pretty hard act to follow. Then, you also have Lynn(a 1000 yd shooter) to explain what Bill said. I don't think I can top that so I will stay on the Rimfire Forum. Thanks Gene, James

BJH
07-09-2008, 02:15 PM
:eek::D.....Well i said he was a waterboy(LYNN) cause he wasn't doing so good at SPLAININ what was being posted.,,,,,,:confused:

J Pappas
07-09-2008, 02:45 PM
Isn't this thread MORE USELESS than anything Bill has posted. If you don't like what Bill or anyone else says...ignore it. Just shoot them rimfires without muzzles devices or the sporters without recessed muzzles and prove him wrong by winning everything. Should be easy according to some. At least when Bill doesn't say anything technical in his posts...at least he's entertaining.

Hovis

Hovis, you should take your own advice. I was thanking Gene.

BJH
07-09-2008, 06:26 PM
Hovis, you should take your own advice. I was thanking Gene.



Hovis you are exactly right about my post ....But i will answer your post and the other guy will not....I will also tell you that i will not shoot a gun made by that smith ...As long as Bill Myers and Gene Davis build guns....when they stop then, i guess i will stop shooting....B.J. Hilliard

J Pappas
07-10-2008, 01:50 PM
Hovis[/QUOTE]

Now that's a fair answer. Please remember, most of the techniques used by other smiths, came from or were advanced by Bill when it comes to rimfire. Albert Einstein wasn't easy to understand but was he brilliant in his area?? I just wish most of the people on this forum that wants to run all over him would come and meet him, you might be a little supprised. Sure, are his posts a little odd..sure..but he said something in a post not to long ago that my father always did. On the farm when I was young, my father would send me off to do some job that I had never done, once I got into it, I'd realize he hadn't told me all I needed to know. If I went back and asked him, he'd look at me sternly and say "Figure it out on your own...it's not rocket science". His point was to teach reasoning and thought processes to reach a conclusion or answer.

I just get a irritated when people are not getting the answers (info) or the discussion the way THEY think they should get. Give the guy a break (or ignore him) and we might all learn something in the long run. It just seems everyone thinks they should have whatever they want NOW!!!

I'd stick up for anyone...and I mean anyone...being treated the way Bill has on this forum.

Hovis[/QUOTE]
Hovis, when you say most of the other smiths are using techniques developed by Bill, how do you know that? Because Bill told you? I have been shooting rimfire br since the early 90's. Bill Myers rifles were alot more dominate than Calfees in the early 90's. Two shooters made Bills name famous, Harry Deneen and Steve Turner. Eight years ago Dearl Lane built rifles that won everything and if he were still shooting would be as good as any Calfee rifle. As far as tuners being invented by Bill, it is hard to explain that Browning had the Boss System 4 years before Bill invented tuners. Rimfire tuners have never been patented because Browning holds the patents for tuners.
I met Bill in 1993 when he came to Tx to shoot in the BR-50 Nats.in 1993.His rifles were not winning anything then and by his own admission he butchered alot of rifles during this time. He has built a rifle for me and almost everyone I have shot with for the last 16 years, and I have owned a Calfee Pistol. So I do know him. I have read every article he has written over the years and I can tell you that his beliefs that were carved in stone in the 90's have changed several times since then. As far as his sporter barrel contour is concerned many people were using these barrels in silloutte shooting in the 80's.
Bill is a great gunsmith but when I hear him tell me he is the greatest gunsmith in the world I think that is funny. HIs rifles dominate in one part of this country. There are many other great smiths out there. You just don't hear as much about them, probably because they don't pat themselves on the back as often as Bill.
I do find it humorous that a rimfire gunsmith is try to tell the best centerfire BR shooters that the don't know what they are doing. His sarcastic comments directed at centerfire shooters is most of reason he is treated the way he is.
James

J Pappas
07-10-2008, 04:55 PM
Well, for one, I never said Bill invented anything. I think it's odd that Browning got the patent when the devices existed decades before they utilized them and I may be wrong but the weight at the end of silloutte barrels was for steadiness and balance, not for tuning a barrel...big difference and it just isn't a contour. But I do doubt if it's a original Calfee idea but he sure seemed to have taken it to the next level. He's a honest guy, he has admitted he butchered some guns early on and he has just recently said that he now believes muzzles devices do not need adjusting once properly set. He didn't say that a few years ago. Also, I've never heard him say he was the best rimfire gunsmith in the world....has anyone???? Like I said before...don't like him...ignore him. He doesn't post on other people threads (in general) so why should people post crap on his???

Hovis

Hovis, there are a lot of years of rimfire br history you know nothing about so when you start talking about it , it sounds like revisionist history.
Bill has stated many times he invented the tuner. He also stated it is the greatest advancement to accuracy in our lifetime. What about advances in barrels, stocks, triggers, scopes and ect.
He stated on the forum last week his rifles were the most accurate in the world.
Bill does post on other peoples threads. And he is usually sarcastic.
And ,yes Browning holds the patent for tuners.
You don't really believe Gene Davis, Bill Myers, Butch H., Brian Volker, James Messers, Randy L., Roger Brock and Richard G. are copying Calfee do you? Do you really believe he is the only one to contrbute to rimfire accuracy since its inception?
You can say what you want about the sporter barrel, it was around 20 years before he put his name on it. It was backbored for higher vel.

J Pappas
07-13-2008, 03:55 PM
What are you do on the rimfire forum telling someone to use j b weld to hold their tuner on?

Joe Friedrich
07-13-2008, 05:24 PM
Lynn, since you have stated this thread isn't worth anything I will add my nothing opinion. You are talking about centerfire, James is speaking of rimfire.

The solid tuners I use in rimfire fit like a glove, and are taken off every time the rifle is cleaned. My belief is if your going to clean the bore, the tuner and crown also need to be looked after. Have seen some cruddy looking crowns when that tuner finally comes off, even though folks are using gizmo's to clean with tuners on.This is my opinion and have been doing this from the beginning. Most folks freak when they see this and think some folks put to much emphasis on what they consider to be the right way to do something. This method works for me and there isn't any lack of performance by taking if off and putting it back on.

Just my nothing opinion,
Joe

Douglas
07-14-2008, 07:23 AM
[QUOTE=J Pappas;429277]

He stated on the forum last week his rifles were the most accurate in the world.

I would never put words in anyone else's mouth, but I have seen this statement more than once on these boards by folks. I thought I read every post ever made by the gentleman who is the topic of conversation here, but I may have missed it. Please find this post for me and link it here so I can see it for myself. If the post doesn't exist, then this inuendo is pretty insulting; if the post does exist, then my conclusion is wrong and I apoligize in advance.

Thanks, Douglas

Douglas
07-17-2008, 08:02 AM
That's what I thought, he either did not say it or.... thread was deleted? It's the old telephone gag, the more times something is re-told, the more distorted the story becomes. Thanks, Douglas

J Pappas
07-17-2008, 09:08 PM
That's what I thought, he either did not say it or.... thread was deleted? It's the old telephone gag, the more times something is re-told, the more distorted the story becomes. Thanks, Douglas

Douglas, while I don't care to wade thru 200 of Bills post to prove a point, Bill did state he was the greatest gunsmith. If you look at Bills last post on the Kathy Thread, Bill said today that tuners are the greatest advance in accuracy in our lifetime. B.S. We have men on this forum who built the machines to make barrels, men who built companies to build actions and accurate rifles , men who built the tooling and make benchrest stocks, men who designed and build triggers, and men who by come up with new ways to freeze and mount scopes to br standards. These are the people who I think deserve credit for todays br accuracy. I have never heard one of them brag about how great they are. Most of us know who these people are, and don't have to be told everyday. James

J Pappas
07-17-2008, 09:24 PM
I think Bill said his Spec 4 or Spec 5 rifle was the most accurate rifle he has ever seen.Last I heard there was a $31,500 bid for that rifle but I never heard who actually bought it or its price.

As to the greatest accuracy advancement of our time I think stocks,triggers,scopes and barrels have been with us for quite awhile now.
Lynn

Boy, his guns sure went up since he started advertising on BRC.

J Pappas
07-17-2008, 10:16 PM
I think Bill said his Spec 4 or Spec 5 rifle was the most accurate rifle he has ever seen.Last I heard there was a $31,500 bid for that rifle but I never heard who actually bought it or its price.

As to the greatest accuracy advancement of our time I think stocks,triggers,scopes and barrels have been with us for quite awhile now.
Lynn

Must have been Jerry Luck who bought that there rifle, I don't know anyone else who has that much money. Gosh Lynn, you are probably right, those people I was talking about have just been sitting on their thumbs the last 50 years waiting for someone like Bill to come along and help them. They sure are lucky that Bill came along. And, they are real lucky you can explain it to them.

J Pappas
07-17-2008, 10:28 PM
James I was just correcting what you had said and Douglas had asked about.I don't think Bill got $31,500 for the rifle that was just an offer someone made on the rimfire forum.
I also think you missed the point of Bill's post.He said the tuner would be the most accuracy related improvement in our lifetimes.You won't actually know the answer until you die.
Also remember we had a truce.
Lynn

You are right about the truce. Next time I'm going to be out that way I'll have my people get with your people and we will have lunch. James